Author Topic: The Official 3RZ Knowledge and Database Thread (Read 911296 times)

UtahGuy · « **Reply #1140 on:** Nov 03, 2014, 05:45:37 AM »

I did this for mounts: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/475469-just-some-84-85-3rz-swap-tech.html#post5504591. I used his dimensions and the motor and mounts ended up being a 1/2inch too narrow on my '85 frame, not sure why. I plated the frame with 1/4" on each side and now they're perfect.

Quote from: dcg9381 on Oct 28, 2014, 07:43:21 AM

I have an MSQ (which is the full tune that will contain the timing map) from MS 3.0 guys. You could open it in tunerstudio and likely extract the timing map. When you get that close - email me... This will be my 4th MS project.

I thought your username was familiar, and it just hit me. Did we swap PMs and then emails over at 4Runners.com?

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1141 on:** Nov 03, 2014, 02:20:05 PM »

Quote from: UtahGuy on Nov 03, 2014, 05:45:37 AM

I thought your username was familiar, and it just hit me. Did we swap PMs and then emails over at 4Runners.com?

Possibly... I'll send you a PM.

Tungsten Slayer · « **Reply #1142 on:** Nov 04, 2014, 10:27:05 AM »

Alex here with Chilkat.. I just had a very nice customer on the phone tell me about the comments above. I would like to say thanks to Nation for being the man..haha $Beer Chug\'n$ The RZ conversion mounts have been working great and customer feedback has been outstanding. If for some reason there is an issue with fitment, don't hesitate to get in touch with me and I will try to help you out. I as the seller of the RZ conversion mounts need feedback, good or bad. It might help create another great product down the line that would help out many more enthusiast's and that is my end goal. Thanks to all!

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1143 on:** Nov 04, 2014, 11:35:49 AM »

Alex, I'm glad you replied.. I was wondering about saying something (I'm waiting on your mounts and pan conversion).

For those of you that have gone turbo, can you educate me on routing of water lines? Or point me to a FSM that has water flow path for the 2rz / 3rz? Does the water flow start from drivers side low (at the thermostat housing) thru the heater core and terminate at the rear of the head?

GRW · « **Reply #1144 on:** Nov 05, 2014, 05:55:34 AM »

Thanks Alex, looking forward to your MM so I can get the pan away from the steering.

I would also like to add that any & all manufacturers have to deal with tolerances from their own or purchased parts. I deal with it for a living. I’ve worked both the design side and the factory support side. Tolerances are a part of life and that does not take into consideration what has happened to your truck over the past 30 +/- years. If you are having issues with you mounts give him a shot at helping you out.
I would first try loosening everything up and see if that does the trick, if that does not work give him a call.
Ow ya if you have not checked out the 3RZ snow video on U-tube (and you like snow wheelin) check it out.

SqWADoosh · « **Reply #1145 on:** Nov 06, 2014, 09:29:22 AM »

Hey fellas I'm currently running 4.88s in my 85 with 3rz swap on 33s. I'm considering bumping up to some 35s and I'm wondering if I should look into going to 5.29 as well or if the 3rz is powerful enough that I'll be alright?

Nation · « **Reply #1146 on:** Nov 06, 2014, 10:07:55 AM »

Quote from: SqWADoosh on Nov 06, 2014, 09:29:22 AM

Hey fellas I'm currently running 4.88s in my 85 with 3rz swap on 33s. I'm considering bumping up to some 35s and I'm wondering if I should look into going to 5.29 as well or if the 3rz is powerful enough that I'll be alright?

Shoot. Since you've got the 4:88s in there already slap some 35s on it! I'm sure it won't be that bad. I have 5:29s and 3rz.. i wish I had 37s.. bought an R150F for some taller gears.

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1147 on:** Nov 06, 2014, 10:34:46 AM »

I ran 35's on a 4.88 supercharged 22R. I think you'll be fine with the 3rz.

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #1148 on:** Nov 10, 2014, 10:18:11 AM »

I just got my chilkat mounts on Saturday. I went down to orielllys and got some of the rubber isolators. I was installing them by myself so I fought it at first, then I realized the rubber mounts I got from the parts store had the holes drilled too close together, so I plasma cut some wider holes in them. The chilcat mounts worked great and they communicated well, telling me when they would ship out. It would have taken me longer to build some myself than the 150 bucks it took. (in value) if that made any sense.

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #1149 on:** Nov 10, 2014, 10:23:39 AM »

Im sure some of you remember H8PVMNT and his 3rz troubles...I bought his engine and wiring. Really cool guy, labeled everything clearly and that made all the difference. Life got in the way of doing the swap for a while, but last weekend I sold the motor and mounted the new one up. The dash still is torn apart with wires everywhere... Its like my nightmare. I hate wiring. But IT RUNS!!! That was the biggest battle. Now I just have to find the wires for the power windows, power mirrors, dome light, etc...
The runner is going to a local shop tomorrow to find out why its running so rich. I'll keep you guys posted, because Im sure some of you remember the trouble this motor caused him.

H8PVMNT · « **Reply #1150 on:** Nov 10, 2014, 10:30:07 AM »

Glad you got it going... I can't wait to find out what the heck the problem is!

SqWADoosh · « **Reply #1151 on:** Nov 10, 2014, 11:37:09 AM »

Hey guys thanks for the input on the 35s. My next question is I am looking at putting OBA into my truck. I had been leaning towards a 12v compressor (ARB or Extremeaire) however I'm now considering getting a 3rz AC compressor and modifying it to be my OBA. Has anyone done this that could help me out with what all would be needed to make this work? My 3rz swap does not have AC but I've found compressors locally for about a $100. Also does the 3rz compressor have good enough output to be a good choice for OBA? I want to be able to run tools as well as have fast air up times. I know this will likely require a reservoir so I am already planning on that. I just want to know what kind of CFM I could expect out of the 3rz compressor. Thanks as always!

GRW · « **Reply #1152 on:** Nov 11, 2014, 05:42:18 AM »

Is anyone running without a CAT?
Did you put the 2nd O2 sensor after the muffler or did you use the electronic device (replaces the sensor)?

Thanks

Nation · « **Reply #1153 on:** Nov 11, 2014, 06:30:27 AM »

I thought my 3rz ran awesome with no cat. No 02s.. and just the exhaust lead pipe.. after installing cat and the rest of piping I noticed a significant decrease in power

SqWADoosh · « **Reply #1154 on:** Nov 11, 2014, 06:51:17 AM »

Quote from: NATION on Nov 11, 2014, 06:30:27 AM

I thought my 3rz ran awesome with no cat. No 02s.. and just the exhaust lead pipe.. after installing cat and the rest of piping I noticed a significant decrease in power

Haven't done it with a 3RZ but with my 22re it definitely ran better with the CAT. I stand corrected.

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1155 on:** Nov 11, 2014, 09:52:03 AM »

Quote from: NATION on Nov 11, 2014, 06:30:27 AM

I thought my 3rz ran awesome with no cat. No 02s.. and just the exhaust lead pipe.. after installing cat and the rest of piping I noticed a significant decrease in power

I'd stay away from running without 02s. No way to get closed-loop operation.. Likely impacts fuel economy under cruise (part throttle) conditions.
Modern high-flow cats shouldn't create much backpressure.

Nation · « **Reply #1156 on:** Nov 11, 2014, 11:22:37 AM »

Quote from: dcg9381 on Nov 11, 2014, 09:52:03 AM

I'd stay away from running without 02s. No way to get closed-loop operation.. Likely impacts fuel economy under cruise (part throttle) conditions.
Modern high-flow cats shouldn't create much backpressure.

Couldn't resist not driving it after it would fire up

clutch would slip. Nice power. Not meant to run without O2s and a cat.

GRW · « **Reply #1157 on:** Nov 11, 2014, 11:45:32 AM »

Quote from: NATION on Nov 11, 2014, 11:22:37 AM

Couldn't resist not driving it after it would fire up clutch would slip. Nice power. Not meant to run without O2s and a cat.

I was not talking about running with out the 02's (both).
I was talking about running one (the 1st one) installed and the 2nd one attached to the electronic device that fools it.
Makeing the 1st 02 do the controling, it is listed some wear in the 39 pages of this topick/thread...

Im at work so I don't have time to look (did a quick search and came up empty).
I was hoping to run into someone that is, or has run that device or is running one just behind the manifold and one after the muffler.

If I get a chance when I get home I will look through my notes and see if I can find it.

Thanks Gary

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1158 on:** Nov 11, 2014, 08:27:14 PM »

Gary - gotcha... Is the device you're looking for an "02 simulator"? Makes sense that it works with one.. One may be actual air/fuel and the other some sort of catalyst sensor.

Anyway - progress on mine over on http://2rzturbo.net:

Added the boost insurance, ARPs and MLS. I'm a little disappointed that the front ARPs obviously were not make for the 2rz/3rz (the version from LC Engineering) - they don't fit all the way down in the block threads, they're slightly too short:

Turbo mock up, although I'm leaning toward a bigger turbo:

Using 440cc/min Supra turbo injectors, they drop in:

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #1159 on:** Nov 11, 2014, 09:02:48 PM »

What kind of psi are you aiming for? What size turbo and spool are you trying to get?

GRW · « **Reply #1160 on:** Nov 12, 2014, 06:42:21 AM »

Found it page 21 or this thread.

http://urdusa.com/store/Electronics-Rear-Sensor-Simulator/c66_170/index.html

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1161 on:** Nov 12, 2014, 07:56:54 AM »

Quote from: MRHilux87 on Nov 11, 2014, 09:02:48 PM

What kind of psi are you aiming for? What size turbo and spool are you trying to get?

I have experience with turbos on the 22re (motor built for boost). I'm told that the 2rz handles about 12psi in stock form. I've added ARPs and an MLS gasket, so hopefully we'll be better than that. I'd be happy with 250hp (reliable) but probably looking for 300 at 12psi or so, pump gas, depending on how the EGTs look.

Current turbo is a .48/.60 T3 60 trim, which spools great on the 22RE - I actually make the hot side smaller to get better spool.
At 14.7 psi, it'll support 290 hp on the ragged edge of the compressor map. I'm probably going T3/T4 hybrid.

Nation · « **Reply #1162 on:** Nov 12, 2014, 09:29:18 AM »

I think 2rz can handle more than 12 psi stock.. I'm going up to 10psi with my 3rz.

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1163 on:** Nov 14, 2014, 11:59:33 AM »

Anyone got photos of oil pans that were modified to clear IFS on 86-99 trucks/4runners? ChilKat isn't doing them any more... I've got one photo, but would like a few others for some eye-ball initial fabrication:

Edit, I found some additional photos, which I posted up here:
http://www.2rzturbo.net/?p=77

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #1164 on:** Nov 14, 2014, 07:01:18 PM »

I'm still troubleshooting the 3rz I got from H8pvmnt... Fixed a couple little vacume leaks and working on a huge Exhuast manifold leak tonight. Wondering if most of the 2rz sensors are the same? I have a buddy with a 2rz and I was gonna try a couple sensors off his.

Nation · « **Reply #1165 on:** Nov 15, 2014, 05:02:41 AM »

Quote from: MRHilux87 on Nov 14, 2014, 07:01:18 PM

I'm still troubleshooting the 3rz I got from H8pvmnt... Fixed a couple little vacume leaks and working on a huge Exhuast manifold leak tonight. Wondering if most of the 2rz sensors are the same? I have a buddy with a 2rz and I was gonna try a couple sensors off his.

Worth a shot. Be sure to let us know what the issue is.. been wondering about this one for a while.

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1166 on:** Nov 15, 2014, 07:52:33 AM »

As far as I've been able to tell, the sensor on the 3rz and 2rz (for a specific year) are the same... Coil plug / distributor motors may have different stuff, but 2rz/3rz seems to be the same.

Nation · « **Reply #1167 on:** Nov 15, 2014, 08:24:26 AM »

3RZ - DO IT

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #1168 on:** Nov 15, 2014, 02:17:37 PM »

Update on H8pvmnts engine... I had it in a local toyota shop the other day. I havn't been able to get the check engine light to come on, but its having the same problems as before. It runs rich all the time, but above 3xxxrpms it bogs down horribly, or above a certain percent throttle. The mechanic found some little things that he wanted me to fix first, just to eliminate issues before he continues his investigating. He found a large exhuast leak in the collector, where the header pipes all collect into one. Its impossible to weld down there, even with a stick and small rod. I kind of "patched" the whole area between the tubes with some plate and booger welds. Im thinking that because of where this large leak was there could have been a vacuum effect, sucking clean air into the exhuast before the O2 sensors? This would obviously make the computer think it was lean and consequently dump fuel...
The flaw with this theory is that H8pvmnt unplugged both 02 sensors and said it ran the same. So im sure there is more to it. Due to the fact that the problem got worse over time I think it isn't one sensor, or one problem. Could be a few issues compounding together.
I was going to just order a new header for it but I wasn't sure if the LC one or the Rock ripper would fit between the frame and all that. anyone have experience with aftermarket 3rz headers in swaps? i hate trail gear, but Im not a big LC fan either. Add that to the fact that I want to turbo it like Nataions in the near future, and Im kinda torn on ordering one.

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #1169 on:** Nov 16, 2014, 11:22:45 PM »

Spent tonight changing both O2 sensors and playing with a buddy's scanner. Found some intersting Fuel Trims and a possible large problem.
First of all, the scanner has an O2 sensor diagnostics section. When I click on Bank1 Sensor1, it says the voltage and :
MOD $10

Not sure what that means. But when I click on O2 Bank 1 sensor 2 it just says NO DATA or SIGNAL or something.
I started tracing wires back but couldnt find any breaks or problems. Could this be my problem?
Heres some of the other data from the scanner at idle:
ABSLT TPS%-------------- around 8
CALC LOAD %------------- 16.8
MAF FLOW GR/SE--------- 4.62
IAT F----------------------- 95
IGN ADVANCE DE--------- 8.5
ST FTRM1 %-------------- 9.3- (down arrow
LT FTRM1 %-------------- 19.5
O2s11 V------------------ 0.630
O2S12 V------------------0.765

This was about what It read when I first scanned it, after about 15 miles of driving after swap. So Looking at the Long term fuel trim being so high I wondered if I reset it what would happen. I unhooked the terminals and touched them... Reset the scanner and the Long term Fuel trim stayed at 0 for a min or two while the short term Fuel trim was up over 10. Then after a little while the computer seemed to learn something and the long term trim went up over 15, but the short term then when negative. Doesn't make sense to me.
And when I stabbed the gas in neutral, the short term fuel trim goes farther negative. Like its trying to lean itself out, but it cant overcome the Long Term Fuel trim.
Doesnt' make much sense to me.
The ignition timing was kinda strange too. It was 7-8 at idle, then jumped into the 20s when i drove around. Seemed kinda high and fluctuating too much for me.
Hopefully Big Mike or someone smarter than me can help me diagnose this!!!
Thanks for all the help guys.

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