Topic: The Official 3RZ Knowledge and Database Thread

[Nation]

  For the tach you can do the resistor mod, 10k ohm resistor...  oil pressure sender will need to be removed from 22re and installed on RZ.  Coolant temp sensor can Just use the RZ and utilize stock gauge.

[GRW]

Looking for a good picture of the location the dip stick tube goes into the block....
I've looked and can't seem to locate it, maybe it's my eyes (not getting any younger) 

[HogCanyonHopper]

Looking for a good picture of the location the dip stick tube goes into the block....
I've looked and can't seem to locate it, maybe it's my eyes (not getting any younger) 

is this what you're looking for?

[n6dlh]

OK.. Ended up with a 2rz instead of 3RZ.  Coil-pack motor.  Currently testing that motor..
A few questions:

1) Can someone give me some hints on re-structuring the factory AC?  I was told that I need the AC manifold from a 1988 V6 4runner (3.0L) - can someone confirm?   Then have custom lines built?

2) How are you getting the factory tack to work with the 2RZ/3RZ?   The ignition system in the 2000 Tacoma uses what us EFI guys call "logic coils" - they're powered by +12v, and triggered by a 5v pulse.   The factory 1st generation tach is odd-ball if I remember right.  How do I get it to play nice?

3) Do I just move over the factory oil pressure sender from the 22RE  and the same thing on the coolant temperature sensor?   (again, trying to use the factory gauge cluster)

The A/C I cannot confirm, but I believe the manifold off the 22re compressor will bolt the compressor off the donor engine. The model number on both compressors are the same, but the clutch is different. The other thing is the older compressors are slightly longer than the new ones, and will not bolt up without hitting the motor mount.

All the research I can find, the manifold gasket for both compressors are the same gasket, so if the original manifold will bolt up, it is a simple swap.

As far as the ignition system and tach, Nations is correct, there is a tach mod that can be done with a resistor for radio shack and will allow the ECM to drive the tach. The type of ignition system does not matter, since the ECM is the one sending a signal to the tach.

On the sending unit, just swap it over, and cut the plug off the old harness, and transfer it to the new one.

[GRW]

is this what you're looking for?

That looks like it, I will check it out when I get home.    Thank you.

[dcg9381]

Looking for a good picture of the location the dip stick tube goes into the block....

Here's a great write up on the oil pan and dipstick change process... This should be all you need: http://chat.4wheelunderground.com/index.php?topic=140.0

Don't screw up (like I almost did today) and think that the T100 pan will clear on an IFS truck (1st generation).  Apparently the pan has to be further modified to clear the diff if you're IFS.  Chilkatdesigns can apparently do this for you (waiting on a quote) or you can mate the 22RE pan (cut it away) to the 3RZ mounting surface.. Assuming you're a decent MIG welder.


Sending units:

Thanks.. I'll plan on swapping the oil pressure and coolant temperature from the 22RE.


AC:
Solution 1:
In messing with the 22RE and 22RTE, there are definitely at least two different compressor types and two different mounting systems.  As my 4runner is 1988, I assume I've got one of the later ones that will work.  I'm being told that the 22RE compressor setup will mount to the 2rz/3rz with 3 out of 4 holes (good enough) and to get it to work with the 4-rib belt system, you simply swap the AC clutch from a 1st generation MR2 (4AGE).  I've never seen a photo or documentation of this change.   This is what I'm planning on doing, I pull the 22RE without the AC compressor - AC works great currently and I won't have to deal with re-charging the system.

Solution 2:
Have custom hoses built that adapt the 2RZ compressor to the truck.  New o-rings for 134a. 

Solution 3:
I'm told that swapping in the 1988 3.0L AC manifold to 2RZ, this will work with the existing AC hoses.


Tach:

Solution 1:
Thanks for confirming!  I've read about the tach mod - or using a potentiometer instead of a resistor to tune it.    Megasquirt should be the same as the 2RZ ECU, assuming they both send a "standard" tach pulse.  The 22RE tach is oddball, I think it's variable voltage.  Here is documentation of the mod: http://www.mindspring.com/~jayk3/toyota/tachmod.htm

Solution 2:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8920  - This is what Jeff Mosk used to drive his tach on his 22RTE when he converted it to FAST EFI.

[dcg9381]

A little more 'learnin today. 

For trucks like mine that are IFS, The T100 pan won't fit:     
1)  At one time Chilkat was modifying these for people, but he said that he's no longer offering them.  Here's a look at what needs to be done: http://www.2rzturbo.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2rz_modified_pan.jpg
2) Apparently you can mate the 22RE pan to a 2RZ / 3RZ pan... I can't find photos of the projects that have been done this way.

Clutch:
Apparently the 2RZ clutch and 3RZ clutch are different, due to slightly different mating areas on the flywheel.   3RZ's are internally balanced.  There seems to be some question as to if the 2RZ was balanced with the flywheel or not.    My current plan is to order a 3rz flywheel.  I love Marlin's stuff, but his clutch for the 2rz/3rz has an increasing in clamping force of about 33%.   As I'm going to run a turbo, I think I'm going us LCE's clutch.   I'm trying to avoid those ceramic clutches, I've used them before and really don't like how they drive in traffic.

[Nation]

I love MC clutches. Never ran an LC clutch but so far the kits mc offers have been my favorite. Turbo 3rz with 1200 lb clutch.  Personal opinion here. Exedy and centerforce- stay away. Exedy clutch springs go bad in only a few hundred miles of hard driving. Center forces clutch material actually falls off of the clutch disc.

[dcg9381]

Thanks, Nation.. good to know the MC clutch will hold with a turbo.
Personally, I've had great luck with the centerforce I clutches - I've never had an issue.
I've never used their dual friction.

I have used ceramic puck style clutches in higher HP applications, but they suck for street driving.

[Nation]

Yeah, this centerforce I speak of was a puck style. Yruck had sat for 6 months. Started it and a few pucks flew off...

[dcg9381]

As I'm doing Megasquirt, can you guys confirm a few things for me?  The guys on the customtacos forum either don't know or don't care:

1) Oil pressure sender (with the wire). What's the other thing? Coolant drain?
http://www.2rzturbo.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2rz_oil_pressure_sender.jpg

2) Rear of head - looks like a temp sender. Is this for a gauge or for the ECU?
http://www.2rzturbo.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2rz_temp_sender1.jpg


3) Front left side, slightly above oil pan. I assume this is the crank trigger pickup? VR-type sensor?
http://www.2rzturbo.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2rz_pan_sensor.jpg


4) I thought these things coil-pack 2rz/3rz had a cam sensor too?  I don't see one...

[Nation]

1. Yes coolant drain
2. Temp for ecu
3.most likely engine crank sensor to turn on ecu cuz I've never seen that before.
4.idk

[dcg9381]

And for those that are going to turbo, there is an M16x1.5 plug on the oil filter pickup assembly that can be adapted to the AN style fitting of your choice:

http://www.2rzturbo.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/tacoma_turbo_oil_pickup.jpg

[SqWADoosh]

Hey guys I just wanted to introduce myself seeing as I've been lurking in the shadows of this thread for over a year now. I finally joined the forum and just wanted to say thank you to you all for your sharing of the wealth of knowledge regarding everything 3RZ. Here is my swap into my 85 4runner:



The swap has been amazing with the exception of a few quirks that have come along with it. I am battling an issue where my truck will run great on a cold start, but upon restarting the engine when it is warm I will get a rough/low idle that goes away after driving for a few minutes. This is what a guy over on YT told me he thinks the issue is I'm wondering if you guys could add any input?

Two parts to this: 1. Heat Saturation and 2. Swapped parts/engines.

1. When under normal operation, the IAT (Intake Air Temperature) sensor normally sees air that's about 80-90 degrees on your normal sunny day. Usually 10-20 degrees higher than the ambient air temperature. When you shut off your engine and leave it for a little while, but not long enough for the engine to cool off, hot air from the combustion chamber "saturates" the air intake all the way to the IAT sensor. Now it's sensing some very hot air so it retards the timing when you go to start up your vehicle. Once driving again, the incoming air (80-90 degrees) cools off the IAT sensor and things return to normal.

2. When everything is bone stock, this is usually not an issue since the engineers compensate for this by programming the ECU to adjust for it, or there's extra airflow to cool it off. However, when you start swapping parts/engines from other vehicles it'll show up since it's not the manufacturer's original design.

Hope this helps. Short answer is: there's no way around but doesn't hurt anything.

Thanks guys 

[Nation]

Hmmm... could be many things... From coolant temp sensor to fuel pressure regulator   thinking cap

[SqWADoosh]

Just to clarify. It will run great for as long as I drive it on the initial start. For example if I start it up for the first time for the day and were to drive 200 miles without turning off the key it will have no problems what so ever. It is only when turning it off and then back on again (when it has warmed up) that this issue arises.

[dcg9381]

That's a valid theory, but it doesn't really explain why it's not happening on factory 3rzs.
You can test it pretty easy, if you can find the connection to the factory IAT.
The IAT is a simple resistance / temperature device.  I'd let the truck run and get warm, pull the IAT connector (if it dies, that's OK).  Measure the resistance.

Buy a resistor of the same value (or as close as you can get).   Then run the truck around, turn it off.. Allow it to heat soak, but instead of starting it with the IAT connected, drop the resistor in.

If it starts and runs fine, you're heat soaking...

[SqWADoosh]

I asked the same thing of him and his explanation was that the front clip of a 1st gen 4runner is different of the 4runners/trucks that use the 3rz stock. Thus changing the amount of air that is getting to the block? I don't know it was at that point that I came here for the expert's opinions.

Do you have any pictures of the sensor you are telling me to attempt pulling?

[dcg9381]

I don't.. My 2rz is missing the intake track, I suspect it's in there, usually right at the air filter... but someone else with a bit more 2rz/3rz experience can respond.  If you've got access to a FSM, should be easy to find.

[Nation]

 

[dcg9381]

How are you guys handling the fuel hard line to soft line connection?  My understanding is that it's an odd double-flare...   Anyone know how to get that converted to AN style? 

[UtahGuy]

Slight hijack....is that the generic winch mount used without a body lift?    I'm thinking of going this route but had not seen it installed with the bumper cut clean in two.   What winch is that?

Sorry for the late reply, I guess I don't check in over here enough.  That's a Trailgear winch mount, Engo 10000, no body lift.  I hacked up the stock bumper brackets and welded them to the side of the winch mount to give the bumper pieces something to bolt up to.  A proper plate bumper is on the list, but it's four or five spots down unfortunately.   

Update on the Megasquirt - got roadblocked for a bit trying to figure out how to get the timing into the computer.  The MS doesn't like the 1-tooth reluctor in the dizzy.  I was almost ready to install a trigger wheel and Hall sensor when DIYAUTOTUNE.com turned me onto a doohickey they call the Zeal Daughterboard.  It does a bunch of stuff I don't care much about, but one that I care very much about, and that's convert the signal from the VR sensors into something the MS can read.  It comes in a kit, you have to assemble it yourself, but once you get the hang of the soldering that's not hard at all.

the kit


assembled


tying it to the Megasquirt board


It'll install into the Megasquirt case.  Next steps are to tie the new engine harness into the Megasquirt DB37 pigtail, and then start playing with software.  I might be on the downhill slope here, we'll see what other troubles pop up before I'm done. 

[UtahGuy]

I'd like to find someone who has this working... In particular:
1) What MS unit are you using?
2) What ignition system (especially if you've got the coil motor) - and what are the associated settings
3) Initial fuel map and timing map would be helpful.
4) Recommendations for turbo manifold.. I know the manifold built by Steed Speed (and sold by LC) is good.

I'll take full MSQ's if that's easier...
I promise to document it, so you can point people to me in about all the details... :-)

Mine isn't running yet, so all of this is subject to change, but right now I've got a '96 3RZ with dizzy, v2.2 MS1 board with Zeal daughterboard (for the VR converters), it'll be running MSExtra.  No idea on fuel and timing maps, I'm expecting to have to build those from scratch.  If you find some let me know!

How are you guys handling the fuel hard line to soft line connection?  My understanding is that it's an odd double-flare...   Anyone know how to get that converted to AN style?

I cut the fuel line on the rail back behind the transmission and moved the fitting down and reflared it.  Had a hose place make me a flexible hose (I think three feet or so?), ran that up behind the bellhousing and terminated it on the fuel filter relocated to drivers inner fender for super easy access.

[stubbysr5]

I used factory line from tank to fuel filter hose an it worked out good.
Updates: went with 17141-75080 in place of pacesetter with a Bossal down pipe. Only primary o2 sensor. No cat. 2.25 except for 15 inch tail pipe that was 2". 41" glass pack with louvers facing into exhaust flow. Pipe when in throttle. Drove 97 miles on I15 two weeks ago to Great Falls Mt. Used 1/4 of a tank. Tank holds 16 gallons. Traveled between 65 and 80. 36x12:50 15 TSL SX bias Swampers with  Yukon 5:29 and Grizzly Lockers. I can't pregnant dog.
My fast idle problem turned out to be the power steering idle up vacuum lines. Did some other running around on that same tank of fuel and averaged about 16 mpg for the whole tank but 4 gallons in 97 miles is fine. Easy doing hi way speed now whereas before with 22r I would stick to secondary roads. The Toyota exhaust shorty header is a sweet piece. Crossed over behind transfer under front u-joint. Marlin Crawler vehicle speed sensor is nice stuff too. Makes me glad I used entire harness out of 98 taco.refabed my clutch line and it gravity bleeds. I'd prefer a stiffer pedal but no slippage issues.
This swap sure changes the driving experience.
Thanks to founders contributors and responders of this thread.
A note to Big Mike I was born in Exeter in 59 and my dad had 25 acres of oranges on the other side of Lemoncove. Been up to slick rock a few times. I think it is the same place, maybe not.

[dcg9381]

Mine isn't running yet, so all of this is subject to change, but right now I've got a '96 3RZ with dizzy, v2.2 MS1 board with Zeal daughterboard (for the VR converters), it'll be running MSExtra.  No idea on fuel and timing maps, I'm expecting to have to build

I have an MSQ (which is the full tune that will contain the timing map) from MS 3.0 guys.  You could open it in tunerstudio and likely extract the timing map.  When you get that close - email me...   This will be my 4th MS project.

[UtahGuy]

That'd be sweet.

[mrrp]

dont bother with the chilcat designs mounts. ive been trying to get mine mounted for two days. they just dont fit in my 85 4runner with my 3rz. i could have had some made for the same price with out freakin' with them for so long.

hopefully marlin will make some soon. he makes quality products.

I cant stress enough, this isnt a bolt in product, fabrication is necessary after purchase.

[Nation]

Funny. Mine bolted right in.  I highly recommend chilkat. Be a little more specific as to why they, "won't fit".  Not enough angle on the motor? Can't get tcase mount to sit flush?

[Nation]

dont bother with the chilcat designs mounts. ive been trying to get mine mounted for two days. they just dont fit in my 85 4runner with my 3rz. i could have had some made for the same price with out freakin' with them for so long.

hopefully marlin will make some soon. he makes quality products.

I cant stress enough, this isnt a bolt in product, fabrication is necessary after purchase.

Also, dude over at chilkat is way cool. You try to talk to him or ask what was up before you re-fabricated them? If you were able to fab them up it sounds like you could have made your own
Another thing. You don't "need" to purchase any mounts if you have the 3rz brackets as well as the 22re brackets.. you can bolt them together to make your own mount.. hate posts like this. Your opinion and one bad experience unfortunately will probably stray a few people away from a hi quality product from a guy who has a passion for the same thing you do. Not trying to be a meanie, but ask a few questions before you go throwing people under the bus.

[Nation]

I had a buddy help me with a pry bar to get things Into position. I left the hardware loose and beat them into position. Nothing bent. No issues. I left all of the hardware loose other than the Chilkat mount to motor bolts. 22r mount to chilkat mount loose. 22r mount to frame loose. A super easy fix for this is a budbuilt x member that attaches to the frame with u bolts. You can also shim the mounts if need be.  May also be able to put a washer or two between the tcase mount to tcase mating area to try and drop one side down a bit. Hope you get er done! !