Topic: The Official 3RZ Knowledge and Database Thread

[Nation]

OK so I got my engine issue resolved, it was a plugged fuel line. I know that the three RZ sits at 10 degrees at the valve cover off level ,but is it normal for the transmission and transfer case to sit at an angle?

That must feel reallly good! Youve been worki. That out for a looooong time.

[UtahGuy]

3RZ into my '85 4Runner is nearing completion.  It hasn't started yet, but it cranks.  Got a couple bugs to work out and she should be rolling again.



Couple questions - those of you that kept the 22RE radiator, what are you doing for a shroud?  I'm using the Taco fan and clutch, which are too big for the 22RE shroud.  I don't have a 3RZ shroud to look at, I'd like to know that it can be easily modified to match the mounts on the 22RE rad before I run out and get one.  Other question - I saw several pages upthread where somebody asked about the various sensors and stuff on the charcoal canister - I'm not going to be subject to an emissions referee and I'd like to not mess with installing all that crap.  I'd also like to avoid a check engine light.  Has anybody identified what is needed to fool those sensors?

[Nation]

I used the 22re fan clutch. I did this by drilling out the stud holes to a larher diameter. I then used the standard 22re fan shroud

[UtahGuy]

I used the 22re fan clutch. I did this by drilling out the stud holes to a larher diameter. I then used the standard 22re fan shroud

No overheating problems?  Good to know, I might just do that then.

[Nation]

No overheating problems?  Good to know, I might just do that then.

No over heating issues.  I have put it through some serious torture.. no issues

[BigMike [OP]]

I used the 22re fan clutch. I did this by drilling out the stud holes to a larher diameter. I then used the standard 22re fan shroud

I originally had done the same thing to mine. I posted about it from reply #254 down to about reply #263. Replies # 260 & 261 discuss the clutches: http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=4401.msg42393#msg42393

I opted to use a wider 3-core radiator and have never had any heating issues going on 10 years since my conversion.

BTW UtahGuy that 3RZ looks sexy in there

Regards,
BigMike

[UtahGuy]

No over heating issues.  I have put it through some serious torture.. no issues

Great, that's what I'll do then.  I passed off my entire stash of 22RE junk to a friend, I'll have to see if I can get that spare fan and clutch back from him.

BTW UtahGuy that 3RZ looks sexy in there

Thanks!  Appreciate all the work you and others have done documenting the swap, it's made life a bunch easier for a hack mechanic like me.

[Capt. Crawler]

OK so I got my engine issue resolved, it was a plugged fuel line. I know that the three RZ sits at 10 degrees at the valve cover off level ,but is it normal for the transmission and transfer case to sit at an angle?

Spoke to Chilkat Designs yesterday about trans. not level.
 I used a '09 2TR bell housing on my swap and we are wondering in that is the culprit
  to tilted trans?

[Nation]

Spoke to Chilkat Designs yesterday about trans. not level.
 I used a '09 2TR bell housing on my swap and we are wondering in that.                       


i had the same issue.  It was an easy fix. Have a buddy push or pry the motor off to one side to enable the tcase mount be fastened to the x member. I left my motor mount bolts loose until i got the t case mount in Place. Then i tightened everything up. No problem. Done.  You cant expect it to be absolutely 100% perfect.  That motor doesnt belong in there. An idea, you could also try to configure your own mounts by using the 22r/3rz motor mount brackets. You can see that on Bevins 3rz swap I believe.  Im just saying bolt it up and forget about it. You will be golden!      

[Capt. Crawler]

Yep that's what's happening. Just get-n-er done.
 Thanks I was just sayin if anyone found same tilt, cause chil says never heard before.

 

[Nation]

I believe it was the passenger side of the t case mount that would not sit flush if i remember correctly. Not knocking chilkat in any way just for the record. Great product, great service. I will definately be buying another set for my next project.  I was able to get it flush with some gentle prying

[H8PVMNT]

4Runner quit completely on the way home this weekend, then started right up after a few minutes.  I put it in the garage and it's not comming back out untill I either figure this out or put a 22r in it...

[n6dlh]

I'm picking up my 3RZ next weekend. Engine, harness, ECU, and W59 Transmission.

This is a great thread and look forward to start the work on the engine soon. I will have some work to do, and gathering parts before I perform the swap. Need to find a 22re pan so I can make an oil pan that will clear the IFS. I plan on making my own dipstick tube and using some dipsticks I have been replacing on a recall I have been doing at work. Free suff is always better when it can be utilized and made to work.

[H8PVMNT]

OK finally pulled the plugs so you can take a look. I had replaced these probably 2,000-3,000 miles ago when I was checking things.  They are all 4 black and were wet with gas when I pulled them...  Clearly over fueling.   TPS and MAF just replaced.  I also unhooked O2 sensors to try to see if it would snap out of it in closed loop and no change then either so I would guess I can rule out O2 sensors.  Fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator were replaced when I started having the glitch. 

Could this be as stupid as having it jump time?  I had a buddy's 22re act like this years ago and it was 12 teeth off on the timing chain.

[n6dlh]

OK finally pulled the plugs so you can take a look. I had replaced these probably 2,000-3,000 miles ago when I was checking things.  They are all 4 black and were wet with gas when I pulled them...  Clearly over fueling.   TPS and MAF just replaced.  I also unhooked O2 sensors to try to see if it would snap out of it in closed loop and no change then either so I would guess I can rule out O2 sensors.  Fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator were replaced when I started having the glitch. 

Could this be as stupid as having it jump time?  I had a buddy's 22re act like this years ago and it was 12 teeth off on the timing chain.

Hopefully your 3RZ swap is setup to take full advantage of the OBDII system, and you are able to scan ECM. It would really cost less money in the long run to invest in a decent scan tool like Autoinginutiy or something that will allow you to look at the data stream. Hell I have a blue tooth dongle that hooks to my android phone for 14 bucks. It will allow me to look at generic OBDII data on it, nice thing to carry in the car, since I am not going to carry my $5K scan tool everywhere I go.

Intermittent problems can be a pain, but there are some things that will help to try and narrow down what system is being effected. The fuel saturation can also be from lack of spark, but it is best to cover the basics. If timing jumped it may have cut off, but not likely to restart and drive, and even if it did would usually run poor. A cheap vacuum guage from harbor freight will tell you a whole lot. Low general vacuum can be an indication of timing problems or breathing problems. Most of the time 1 tooth equals about 12 degrees of ignition timing, so look for vacuum down below 15hig. The scan tool can tell you a lot, the ECT and IAT temps are primary sensors, and can cause some massive over fueling and no starts. You need to be able to pull a little data to sort this out, but I am willing to try and help. I will post a little more later, dang windows update restarting my PC!

[H8PVMNT]

Here is a bit I posted when I got ahold of a scan tool a while back...

OK this one is probably for BigMike...

Put a fuel filter on and no change.

Then I got a hold of a decent scan tool so I could see stuff in live time. OBD 2 is kinda cool.  Most everything seemed to fluctuate properly but a couple of things seemed odd to me.

The first thing was that if I had any more than about 32% on my TPS the timing would retard itself drastically.  At 25-32% TPS while I was getting on it I had maybe 30-38° of timing advance, then above 32% TPS the timing advance would drop off instantly to like 15-20° advance which is when it "falls flat" and I can't get any more RPM. 

Just for kicks I actually taped a screwdriver to the  throttle pedal to keep the TPS under 32% and then I could finally get redline!  I could almost leave it like that but I am positive there is more power to be had if I could open my throttle all the way.

The only other thing was that it switched from closed loop to open loop at different times when I was fluctuating the load and throttle.  Maybe that's not odd, I don't know.

So based on the timing dropping off after 32% TPS should I suspect a bad crank sensor, coils, bad ECM, or what?


Oh and what should long term fuel trim and short term fuel trim look like?

[H8PVMNT]

And this one regarding grounds and fuel trim which is way the heck off...

Right now I have a ground from the passenger side low on the block to the frame and a ground that goes from the block near the starter to a nut on the fender well right where my battery negative ground hooks up.  The coils have a ground from the bracket they hang on that goes right into the harness and I have no ground from the head to anything.


Should these have a ground from the back of the head to the firewall like the 22re?  I did put in an extra ground from the head to the fender well a while back and it made no difference.

Coils have good power and ground when I test from the harness plugs.  My ohm meter doesn't seem to work good enough to test the coil resistance.

On the MAF, originally I had a Toyota one, then I replaced it with a remaned one and it ran better but still has issues.  With the stick MAF it was beginning to dog out at like 2800 rpm, the remaned one I can get 3500+/- before it dogs out.  My parts guy ordered me up another one to test and still no difference, so I think the MAF is definitely good.  I tested on a guys nice expensive shop ohm meter and it tested good, actually they both tested good.  Then I replaced the TPS and that did nothing either.


Took a drive just now with the scan tool.  Long term fuel trim is like 15-17% at idle and from 25% to 37% while getting on it.  I have played with propane all over the intake and vac lines a couple weeks ago and found nothing that indicated a vac leak.  I do have one of those amsoil cone filters and I did a gasket-match and a bit of port and polish.  No fancy cams or anything.  Is it possible with that done I am just getting too much air for the ECU to compensate for?

I know the turbo/tuner set uses RX7 injectors that are a direct fit but like 440cc.  Should I consider this route?

Maybe I have a nasty injector?

I am kind of back to replacing the coils in my mind as well.

My brain is now smoking...   

[Fireyota]

Here are some wiring diagrams I found while looking for the one I needed. Hope this can help someone out.

'99 2rz: 2rz wiring
http://www.gatechlocost.com/99-2RZFE-ecu.pdf

2001 Tacoma FSM: http://www.markofshame.com/fsm/01_Tacoma/01%20Tacoma%20Wiring%20Manual.pdf

2003 tacoma FSM: http://web.archive.org/web/20101127005714/http://ncttora.com/fsm/2003/2003_FSM.zip

[n6dlh]

Ok fuel trims should be no more than 10% when you add short term and long term together. Under a heavy load they will jump a bit, but not usuallylong term. Long term trims will tell you that it is trending lean, or at least the computer thinks so. Dark plugs, fuel saturated, computer thinks its lean, and cant rev very high. Really there are 3 things that really come to mind. Low fuel pressure, restricted exhaust, or jumped timing. I vacuum guage would tell a lot here. Lack of exhaust flowing past the O2 sensor will cause these kind of issues. The timing is retarding because the PCM is detecting a lean condition and trying to pull timing to avoid detonation. Need to find the root cause of the lean condition, or precived leab condition. Vacuum guage and a scan tool i can walk you through getting the problem pinpointed.

[H8PVMNT]

So something as stupid as a plugged cat could be on my list...

[H8PVMNT]

I had unplugged both O2 sensors a couple weeks ago and it made no change whatsoever.

[n6dlh]

That could be an indication that either there is a lack of flow past the upstream 02 or the 02 is not reading correct. Need to get a vacuum gauge and do some testing. I will get some more info when i get off this cell and get home. Or you can take the cat off, or disconnect the cat and see how throttle response is.

[n6dlh]

Just had an idea, if the O2 is dirty, as in covered in mud, there is a hole in the side of the 02. This is where it will use the outside air as a refrence, if it is clogged up it can cause problems. Easy visual check will verify.

[H8PVMNT]

Took off the cat last night.  I can still see through it really well and there was no change in the throttle glitch.  So I can elimintate the cat anyway.

[H8PVMNT]

O2 sensors are visually clean. 

I had everything live and was working with a testor checking refference signals, supplies and all that.  While I was doing this the fuel pump quit. Found a bad wire hanging from a thread to the fuel pump connector down in the tank, which is apparently why it died on the way home a while back, but after repairing it I had no change in the poor running condition.

I was really hoping that was my problem... It couldn't be that simple I guess. 

[Nation]

Youre almost there!!  Youll get it soon!

[n6dlh]

Yep, one problem down. If you watch the O2 sensors on the scanner the 1/1 should be making rapid changes from about .200 to .800 volts. If its staying on the low side its detectin a lean condotion. If you use a propane torch and let the intake suck up the propane with the torch wide open, you should see it go high after a couple of seconds. Shut the propane down and watch it, it should drop low after a couple of seconds, the begin to swith back and forth. If it doesnt its an indicator of a lazy O2 sensor. Also what does it show for ect temp? Som

[H8PVMNT]

I have to get ahold of the scanner again.  It belongs to a buddy.  I will post up as soon as I have something...  Working on another guys 4Runner this weekend.

[n6dlh]

No problem,
I will be out of here for a little bit, I am making a drive from Virginia to Upstate New York to pickup my 3RZ and w59 transmission and bell housing. Getting excited to get this engine and get it partially torn down. I am also looking forward to getting the Taco oil pan and cutting it apart, done lots of fabrication work but never made and oil pan before. Unfortunately it will be a couple of months before I can take the truck off the road to do the swap, but it will at least give me time to get most of what I need.

[n6dlh]

6 States Later, over 1000 miles, and the 3rz is Mine! This will be a fun swap for sure.