Author Topic: Hurricane Assistance? responsibility or kindness?  (Read 5134 times)

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BLACKDOG

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Hurricane Assistance? responsibility or kindness?
« on: Sep 23, 2005, 10:54:24 PM »
Just to start something new, do we as Americans have a responsibility to provide aid to the hurricane (and other natural disaster) victims, or are we to aid out of the goodness of our hearts?  Granted public servants fall into a different category, but what about the rest of us? 


I believe that we should feel an obligation to provide aid, simply on a human level.  However, I do not feel that any of the victims have the right to EXPECT aid from anyone.  Each person should take responisibility for their own safety and their childrens, if applicable. 
:usa: Its better to die on your feet than live on your knees :usa:

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"I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves."
              -Ronald Reagan

Don't take life too seriously, it isn't permanent

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Wow BD that's deep.

I believe that we as Americans have an obligation to look out for each other.  I think that even though, yes victims of the natural disasters do have a responsibility to get themselves and families out of the way of disaster, it's not always possible.  Disaster strikes without warning (Obviously not hurricanes, but other natural disasters).  I think that the victims should be able to expect help AFTER THEY HELP THEMSELVES.  I don't think they should just sit around and say "my fellow Americans are going to save my :moon: " NO, they gotta make an effort for themselves if possible.

I think that it is a responsibility that we take on out of the goodness of our hearts.  If a person doesn't want to help then by all means, we don't want them if they're hearts aren't in it. :headscratch: does that make sense?? I'm tired I'm not too sure :dunno:
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift - that's why they call it the present." - RW Emerson -

BLACKDOG [OP]

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Yeah, it makes sense FFC.


ONe of the reasons I brought this up, is because I was told today that I was a rascist, bigoted, selfish, rich white boy, because I wouldnt donate to some lady collecting funds for hurrican katrina victims.  Yes, she was black, but that had nothing to do with it.  I don't really care about the insults, I've been called a lot worse.  Personally it cracked me up, and I also felt sympathy, because she was representing victims.  I'd rather donate $ to an actual charity, not a lady with a coffee can. 

Personally, I felt an obligation to help, so I donated cash.  I felt the need out of human compassion.  I didnt do it because I am an american, and they are also, I did it because there are people in need.  I'm  not asking for kudos, I dont want any, but I do want to hear other opinions :thumbs:
:usa: Its better to die on your feet than live on your knees :usa:

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. "

"I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves."
              -Ronald Reagan

Don't take life too seriously, it isn't permanent

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:yikes:

I understand why you would be reluctant to donate to a lady with a can.  I would much prefer to donate through an organization than one lone person. 

She actually called you those name??? WTF? She had no right to do that.  What gave her the right to judge you for not donating to HER can.  She has no way of knowing whether or not you've already donated through some other source!!!  :nonono: That pisses me off... it's people like that that make me just wanna say F*** it and not even bother goin out of my way for others.  :headshake:

Anyway, in my opinion, it doesn't HAVE to be money donated, it could be something like racinkid posted in the chit chat camp, a food drive or something like that.  Either way it's goin for a good cause, and doing something like that you can be guaranteed your money is going to what you want it to go for :thumbs:
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift - that's why they call it the present." - RW Emerson -

BLACKDOG [OP]

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:yikes:

I understand why you would be reluctant to donate to a lady with a can.  I would much prefer to donate through an organization than one lone person. 

She actually called you those name??? WTF? She had no right to do that.  What gave her the right to judge you for not donating to HER can.  She has no way of knowing whether or not you've already donated through some other source!!!  :nonono: That pisses me off... it's people like that that make me just wanna say F*** it and not even bother goin out of my way for others.  :headshake:

Anyway, in my opinion, it doesn't HAVE to be money donated, it could be something like racinkid posted in the chit chat camp, a food drive or something like that.  Either way it's goin for a good cause, and doing something like that you can be guaranteed your money is going to what you want it to go for :thumbs:

Exactly.  It can be anyway someone is able to donate.  time, food, money, whatever :dunno:

As for the lady calling me names, I laughed.  You gotta laugh at something like that.  Especially since I was getting in my work truck, with dirty work pants and shirt on, and my arms covered in dirt and grease.  :dunno:
:usa: Its better to die on your feet than live on your knees :usa:

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. "

"I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves."
              -Ronald Reagan

Don't take life too seriously, it isn't permanent

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Exactly.  It can be anyway someone is able to donate.  time, food, money, whatever :dunno:

As for the lady calling me names, I laughed.  You gotta laugh at something like that.  Especially since I was getting in my work truck, with dirty work pants and shirt on, and my arms covered in dirt and grease.  :dunno:

Well BD, I give you props for bein able to laugh about it.  I know if I were in your shoes and someone called me names for not giving them money I would have gone off on them (verbally).  Like I said, they don't know whether or not I've already donated. 

Still, I think it is partly our responsibility, as Americans, to support our "fellow Americans" as much as we can.  Be it with our time, money, food, prayers, thoughts, or material things.
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift - that's why they call it the present." - RW Emerson -

germ

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Man BD, now you got me thinking. From a moral standpoint, I think we as humans ought to help each other out no matter what.

Is it the Government's responsibility? Hmmmm Not sure. On one hand, we pay taxes to support the programs and agencies that are trained and equiped to do this sort of thing. So from that perspective, yes the goverment has the responsibility to help. Should we be  basically giving away the store to help them? that's another issue. I'm not sure exactly how to answer that question.

I think it is appropriate to give tax breaks, and provide low cost loans in order to help people get back on their feet again. However, while it may be appropriate, I don't think it is a responsibility.

Geeze, why'd you go and have to make me think so hard. Now my head hurts. I need a beer.

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I think it is appropriate to give tax breaks, and provide low cost loans in order to help people get back on their feet again.


Geeze, why'd you go and have to make me think so hard. Now my head hurts. I need a beer.

Erik :usa:

First, I didn't think of that, but it totally makes sense :thumbs:


Second, it's the beer that made yer head hurt, the thinkin just intensified it... lay off the :beer:      :angel:

"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift - that's why they call it the present." - RW Emerson -

germ

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To follow this up, and get to the essential part of your post, I don't think we (as individuals) are "obligated" to do anything. I read the rest of your posts, and I would be  EXCEPTIONALLY reluctant to donate if placed in the same situation as you. She probably would have called me a few more names, 'cause I'd have baited her just to get her blood pressure up a bit higher, and see if she'd pop. People like that have no excuse. Sorry to hear you had to put up with that.

Erik :usa:
* Regardless of what happens, someone will find a way to take it too seriously.
* 2% rule: Must be 2% smarter than what your working on.
* If you make something even a fool can use, only a fool will use it.
* I've been crapping in the woods longer than lil'buddy has been alive!

germ

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Quote
Second, it's the beer that made yer head hurt, the thinkin just intensified it... lay off the       

I get off work in 2 minutes, and plan on going straight to the local watering hole, and...well...you know. I'll drink one for ya if you'd like....

Erik :usa:
* Regardless of what happens, someone will find a way to take it too seriously.
* 2% rule: Must be 2% smarter than what your working on.
* If you make something even a fool can use, only a fool will use it.
* I've been crapping in the woods longer than lil'buddy has been alive!

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I get off work in 2 minutes, and plan on going straight to the local watering hole, and...well...you know. I'll drink one for ya if you'd like....

Erik :usa:

Awwww :smooch: yer too sweet!   :beerchug:

To follow this up, and get to the essential part of your post, I don't think we (as individuals) are "obligated" to do anything. I read the rest of your posts, and I would be  EXCEPTIONALLY reluctant to donate if placed in the same situation as you. She probably would have called me a few more names, 'cause I'd have baited her just to get her blood pressure up a bit higher, and see if she'd pop. People like that have no excuse. Sorry to hear you had to put up with that.

Erik :usa:

Germ... that SOOOOO sounds like you  :shakehead:
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift - that's why they call it the present." - RW Emerson -

BLACKDOG [OP]

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To follow this up, and get to the essential part of your post, I don't think we (as individuals) are "obligated" to do anything. I read the rest of your posts, and I would be  EXCEPTIONALLY reluctant to donate if placed in the same situation as you. She probably would have called me a few more names, 'cause I'd have baited her just to get her blood pressure up a bit higher, and see if she'd pop. People like that have no excuse. Sorry to hear you had to put up with that.

Erik :usa:

I thought about it, but then I decided not to.  It was a long day, and I didnt want to deal with it.
:usa: Its better to die on your feet than live on your knees :usa:

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. "

"I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves."
              -Ronald Reagan

Don't take life too seriously, it isn't permanent

toynorcal

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First thought goes to the con-lady with the coffee can. Maybe she was legit, maybe not. Either way I wouldn't recommend sending money to any place other than Red Cross. Atleast there you know it's well spent. Not just for civil relief, but for re-structuring the citys as well.

Second thought goes to a person that puts them selves in the position to ask for anything from anyone. You know where you are living and have the choice to stay or go. What happens from there is a direct result of your choice. Sucks if you lose everything, but you did have a choice. And I don't buy into that whole too poor to move ideal. If you are poor, then you have less to move and less to lose. Most of the people living in stadiums right now have it better than they did before the hurrican. The ones that aren't in stadiums made better choices for themselves and their familys. I believe most people we are talking about would rather be a burden to our society than lift a hand to help to people sent to rebuild their own city. Once their getting their 3 square meals, whats is preventing them from rebuilding their homes? And what is preventing them from rebuilding their neighbors homes as well. I would galdly put money into the hand of the man who is rebuilding his neighbors home because he will contribute to this nation at some point. While his neighbor thanks him for a job well done and goes on welfare.

Third thought is how sad this country has become with people standing around waiting for their hand out. I had a dude walk up to me in the Kragen parking lot the other day... said dude, I won't lie. I just got off the road and I need some money for a drink.  :maddest: That man had no physically preventing ailments that would cause him to not go earn the money for a beer himself. He just figured it would be easier to live off our empathetic culture. I wanted to spit in his face for discracing his heritage that way. We are a great nation because the people before us busted their butts to make it what it is. But for some reason it has become socially acceptable to walk around with your hand out expecting honest hard working people to give you a fish when you already know how to fish yourself. Makes me sick.

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Third thought is how sad this country has become with people standing around waiting for their hand out. I had a dude walk up to me in the Kragen parking lot the other day... said dude, I won't lie. I just got off the road and I need some money for a drink.  :maddest: That man had no physically preventing ailments that would cause him to not go earn the money for a beer himself. He just figured it would be easier to live off our empathetic culture. I wanted to spit in his face for discracing his heritage that way. We are a great nation because the people before us busted their butts to make it what it is. But for some reason it has become socially acceptable to walk around with your hand out expecting honest hard working people to give you a fish when you already know how to fish yourself. Makes me sick.

gotta appreciate his honesty though.... although that's what he wants you to say.. . :headscratch:
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toynorcal

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gotta appreciate his honesty though.... although that's what he wants you to say.. . :headscratch:

:headscratch:

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:headscratch:

At least he didn't tell you he was hungry and was starving and go off on a SOB story.. he said straight up what he wanted to use the money for... u know what i mean?
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift - that's why they call it the present." - RW Emerson -

toynorcal

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At least he didn't tell you he was hungry and was starving and go off on a SOB story.. he said straight up what he wanted to use the money for... u know what i mean?

Yeah. As much as I did appreciate his honesty though, I just can't stomache people like tha including thousands (not all) playing the same song and dance in the south. Besides, I am certain if he had come accross an elderly couple it would have sounded alot more like the SOB starving story.

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Yeah. As much as I did appreciate his honesty though, I just can't stomache people like tha including thousands (not all) playing the same song and dance in the south. Besides, I am certain if he had come accross an elderly couple it would have sounded alot more like the SOB starving story.

Ain't that true... :shakehead:
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If you look at it from a familiar prospective it may make a little more sense to you. Look at it as being on a really hard trail in a forest with your fixed up 4x4. You come across  another wheeler in a stock rig stuck or broken, would you stop to assist them? Of course you would, these people need a tug..... leave no-one behind. On that same note though, if you returned to that same trail and found that same guy in that same rig stuck in the same spot would you stop and help him again? Probably, but this time you'd be pissed.
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kneedownnate

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  I'm glad this thread is turning out more objective than I expected.  On our senior trip a bum asked my friend for food money, she gladly gave him some only to see him outside with a brand new bottle of booze when we left.  She tore into him for a minute.  I also saw a hitchiker in the same spot twice in 1.5 hours, and the second time I saw in the rear view he had thrown up his arms and appeared to be yelling and shaking his head.  Kinda makes you wanna back up over him for acting like I owe him something.  You would think the little light in his head(where his brain is supposed to go) would go on and tell him that if he saw me twice in that period of time I obviously wasn't going far.  It would've been funny though if I did pick him up just to drop him off at the NEXT EXIT which has much less traffic. 
  To answer your question, I feel no more obligation to help people than I would expect people to help me.  I feel for their plight, but also agree they were given the option and were too hard headed or just too stupid to leave.  I don't exactly trust any organization such as the red cross, and can't help but feel that so many of those people will bilk off the red cross until they can go back to bilking off our countrys' beautiful welfare system.  I went back to work as a boat mechanic a week after breaking my leg and thumb, turning wrenches, climbing up and down the stairs and on and off engines, and recently went back 2 days after breaking my collar bone/sternum and did the same.  So what's stopping 99% of those people from helping????????????
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