Author Topic: Lunchbox in front??  (Read 1871 times)

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90weight

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Lunchbox in front??
« on: Apr 12, 2020, 07:15:25 PM »
Hey all, so I have a lunchbox locker in the rear now.. and I canít stand the noises it makes on pavement.. So I am going to spool the rear. Thoughts on lunchbox up front? And please forgive me! I know this has probably been covered a thousand and one times.. still tryin to learn to navigate this board.. and get my damn post count up. Thank you in advance!
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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #1 on: Apr 12, 2020, 11:23:28 PM »
As to running a spool or welding the diff I have done this with no issues except for the tires chirping when turning. Using the lunchbox in the front I noticed that at times if it is locked in you will not get a very good turning radius at all and it puts a load on the birfields and break them. If you do put it in always and I mean always start off with the tires in the straight position or you will destroy a birfield. Also the bigger the tires the bigger the risk of blowing them. I currently run a lunchbox rear and ARB front, used to run ARB F/R but if anything goes wrong with the ARB system you are stuck open so that's why I went back to a locker fulltime in the rear and the reason for the ARB in the front is to keep from blowing up a birfield even though I run cryo'd Longs.
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90weight [OP]

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #2 on: Apr 13, 2020, 05:04:18 AM »
Thank you for replying, do you get the popping and clicking out of your rear lunchbox?  I read its normal but man... the other day it loaded up backing out of my driveway and when it cut loose it violently shook the truck my neighbor was working on his house and stopped and turned around and looked at me.. I said to myself thatís it Iím spooling this thing that canít be good! That energy has to be stored somewhere before it cuts loose.. I have chromo rears so the weakest link from there would be R&P?
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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #3 on: Apr 13, 2020, 05:32:36 AM »
Thank you for replying, do you get the popping and clicking out of your rear lunchbox?

Hey 90weight,

I never ran a spooled diff, but over 20 years I ran Detroits and Lockrights.  They both would ratchet, clang, bang, and squeal the tires.  I quickly got used to it.  Sometimes the bangs would be so loud it sounded like something broke.  ButÖ they never failed.

Marlin specs the lockers by tire size, strength, drop in, or full carrier.

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #4 on: Apr 13, 2020, 08:48:42 AM »
I used to run a lockright f/r and it worked great until the rear exploded. if I remember right the cross pin broke and took everything in the rear 3rd with it. now I have a detriot in the rear and the lockright in the front still works great.

you will get used to the noise.
if you want to spool/weld it that is totally up to you.

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #5 on: Apr 13, 2020, 08:57:22 AM »
What size tire are you running? Axle?
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90weight [OP]

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #6 on: Apr 13, 2020, 03:56:36 PM »
Iím runnin 35ís with stock housings, both Trussed all to hell. But ya Iím runnin stock birfs..chromo birfs are on the list...longfields in the rear.
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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #7 on: Apr 13, 2020, 04:12:05 PM »
that's about my setup with 35s. don't have the trussing though but do have the old school bobby long birfs. the hags been mostly unchanged since 2006ish.

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #8 on: Apr 13, 2020, 04:16:42 PM »
Do you drive on the road a lot?


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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #9 on: Apr 13, 2020, 06:13:42 PM »
No, not a daily...just from my place to wheelin spots around me. I live in a great place for close wheelin. She doesnít like hwy speeds so much! Lol!  :driving:
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90weight [OP]

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #10 on: Apr 13, 2020, 06:29:42 PM »
Tried to check out some of your guys rigs.. but it says Iím not allowed... Denied!  So hereís another question would you run the con with an open front and spooled rear? Or throw that locker in the front and tow this B up there and run it with the locker in the front? Cause thatís whatís boiling down to...4th of July ish I am gonna be up there!  C-19 or no C-19! I have busted my tail gettin her ready and spent what feels like a fortune over the past 2 yrs.. come hell or high water we gonna be there!
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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #11 on: Apr 13, 2020, 07:42:50 PM »
I would for sure run a lunchbox up front if you want too. It will be fine. As far as the spool. I have ran them and currently have one. It is good on the trail. Sucks on the road and wears the piss outta tires. Wouldnít recommend it unless dedicated trailer rig and non much road. Also sucks turning around on granite lol. Thatís just my opinion.


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90weight [OP]

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #12 on: Apr 13, 2020, 08:17:21 PM »
Thank you Willard I appreciate your opinion! I will take all the opinions I can get! Cause I got a friend that says donít do it! You wonít be able to steer, you will break a birf just pullin it outta the driveway...So I came to you guys so I can make an educated decision.
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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #13 on: Apr 14, 2020, 08:12:00 AM »
could run with locker and lock 1 hub. makes turning in tight trails easyer too. ive seen front ends break in the granite bowl in 4wd low.

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #14 on: Apr 14, 2020, 09:10:51 AM »
I run Grizzly f/r, on 38s, real Longfields.
Time to go wheelin!

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #15 on: Apr 14, 2020, 09:51:53 AM »
I prefer selectable F&R, been running ARB's F&R, OG Long's Poly Performance high alloy axles in the rear, croyed gears!!
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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #16 on: Apr 14, 2020, 01:28:26 PM »
I have a Detroit rear and an Aussie Locker in the front. I do have Longfield front axles,  but itís been great.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

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90weight [OP]

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #17 on: Apr 14, 2020, 06:45:55 PM »
Ok, from what Iím gathering I think Iím gonna do it!  I appreciate all of you guys.. this is a great forum, I was on a different one before here and well I wonít talk no trash... :sleepy:...but the people on this forum are for real!!  Thank you!
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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #18 on: Apr 15, 2020, 10:36:30 AM »
I ran a spool in the rear with Aussie lunch box locker up front for over 6 years with 40Ē Iroks on my 85 pickup. Drove the crap out of it too. Finally broke the pin and ate up the locker.   Ow Iíve got a Yukon Grizzly in the front.  I would t hesitate running a lunchbox up front if itís what you got.  Just be ready to replace it when it goes.  It will go eventually. 
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90weight [OP]

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #19 on: Apr 16, 2020, 04:27:52 AM »
Did you have chromo birfs? Or do anything special while on pavement as far as avoiding turning sharp on take off etc? Did it see pavement?
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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #20 on: Apr 16, 2020, 10:12:28 AM »
The things to keep in mind is the difference between a spool and a lunchbox locker in function are the following:

A spool directly connects the two axles so when you're turning the two axles are "fighting" and essentially twisting/binding the axles as the two ends are trying to rotate at different speeds.  This is also what a selectable locker (e.g. ARB) does when engaged.  Your tires will chirp because it's impossible for the tires to different speeds around corners so one has to slip.

A mechanical locker (e.g. Detroit, Aussie) doesn't directly connect the two axles.  They work because the differential cross pin turns and the locker doesn't allow either axle to turn slower than the differential, but they can turn faster (this is when they are clicking).  This means that the inner axle if forced to maintain the speed of the differential and because all of the torque is going to the inner axle it's fairly easy to chirp the tire.  The outer axle is allowed to rotate faster than the differential so the outer tire can follow the speed of the outer tire.  The downside is that you get the clicking as the outer axle disengages and reengages from the differential and when the axles are locking and unlocking it can cause you to feel a swerve as the drive to the tires is changing.  The Detroit doesn't click because it has some extra components (hold out rings) specifically added to hold the side gear out instead of engaging and disengaging on every tooth as overruns the differential.  Sometimes the hold out rings bind a bit and that is what causes the classing Detroit "bang" that sounds like an axle broke.

The reason I provided this information is that you can see how a lunchbox locker will put a lot less stress on the axles compared to a spool and they have very different driving characteristics.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

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90weight [OP]

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #21 on: Apr 16, 2020, 07:37:18 PM »
I appreciate the info! Thatís good stuff!
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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #22 on: Apr 17, 2020, 02:08:11 AM »

The reason I provided this information is that you can see how a lunchbox locker will put a lot less stress on the axles compared to a spool and they have very different driving characteristics.

BD makes an excellent point here... "stress".  :idea:

We know that a spool - welded job - is a popular option for some guys - that works well for them.  :smokin:

At my peak activity, we were on a trail 2 to 3 week ends out of any winter month, and every other week end in the middle of summer here is sunny AZ.  The guys I ran with, in many 4-wheeling circles, were considered hardcore rockcrawlers.  They could have opted for a spool in the rear, but as I remember it was rare to see one on the trails we ran here in AZ.  There obviously was a reason for their choice, and most were running Detroit Lockers, which is one of the most expensive options. :blah:

Adding "stress" to an already highly stressed drive train may not be an optimal choice for an inherently failure prone chassis. :thumbdown:

The other factor, as BD pointed out, is simply the function of when torque is applied to the tires and when the tires can freely rotate.  This control can be critical for successfully negotiating a nasty obstacle while reducing the possibility of breaking something.  :willynilly:

Gnarls.  :gap:
« Last Edit: Apr 17, 2020, 02:20:40 AM by Gnarly4X »
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90weight [OP]

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #23 on: Apr 17, 2020, 03:19:44 AM »
Ok check this out... so Wednesday itís a awesome morning gonna be warm and sunny so Iím thinkin Iím gonna take the runner to work and get the juices flowing cause I been working on her so much. So like I said  I donít drive it much on pavement but work is about 25 miles from my place and I can take all backstreets  no hwy speeds to get there so Iím gonna cruise it in...I get about half way there, Iím doin bout 50 and Iím comin down a hill so I donít want it goin much faster...I slow her down push the clutch in to grab fourth and BOOM somethin cuts loose! I get slowed down asap off the side of the road and I can tell.. itís the rear diff.. clanging, banging. rear tires locking up. I jump out, behold gear oil dripping outta the pinion seal..PERFECT!!  So I trailer her home and get it torn apart.. from what I can tell the pinion nut backed off...carrier is toast, ring gear is toast, pinion gear is toast... main pinion bearing destroyed ...u get he picture...so the irony of all this is Iím goin to be gettin to this rear end much sooner than planned... :smack:
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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #24 on: Apr 17, 2020, 04:12:00 AM »
... from what I can tell the pinion nut backed off.. :smack:


That's a new one on me? :dunno:

Very sorry to read about your destroyed diff! :sad2:

Gnarls.

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90weight [OP]

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #25 on: Apr 17, 2020, 04:49:29 AM »
Iím gonna go ahead and own it too, cause when I rebuilt the diff bout a year ago, I guess I didnít punch the pinion nut enough... gotta be me!  :hammer:
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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #26 on: Apr 17, 2020, 05:50:39 PM »
Thank you for replying, do you get the popping and clicking out of your rear lunchbox?  I read its normal but man... the other day it loaded up backing out of my driveway and when it cut loose it violently shook the truck my neighbor was working on his house and stopped and turned around and looked at me.. I said to myself thatís it Iím spooling this thing that canít be good! That energy has to be stored somewhere before it cuts loose.. I have chromo rears so the weakest link from there would be R&P?

I've had several people tell me there is something wrong with my rearend when parking.  :shake: :rofl2:
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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #27 on: Apr 18, 2020, 12:11:25 AM »
I've had several people tell me there is something wrong with my rearend when parking.  :shake: :rofl2:

Thatís funny.  I pulled into a parking space in front of a strip mall.  The Detroit Locker made a hellavu bang.  An elderly man was about 10 feet away walking along the sidewalk towards my truck.  As Iím getting out of my truck, he said ďYoung man, your truck sounds like it needs repaired!Ē   I said ďYeah, I know. I think the same thing every time it sounds like that.Ē  He said ďIs it safe to drive it?Ē  I said ďOnly on great big rocks.Ē  He just chuckled and kept walking.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

MEMBER: NRA, GOA, SAF "I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you" ~ Robin Williams

90weight [OP]

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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #28 on: Apr 18, 2020, 07:31:08 AM »
Hey gnarls,
   
               Thatís funny stuff!  Happened to me at the gas station up the street, pulled in to the stall and click click pop! The guy on the sidewalk in front of the store jumps cause itís scared him... I jump out, he says nice truck.. is it ok?  I said Thank you, ya itís just my locker.. and you could tell by the look on his face he had no clue!  But your right it takes some gettin used to!
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Re: Lunchbox in front??
« Reply #29 on: Apr 24, 2020, 10:52:05 AM »
I've had several people tell me there is something wrong with my rearend when parking.  :shake: :rofl2:

I had a lockrite that never unlocked once, so it was more like a spool :hahaha: I daily drove it at the time and I would always get looks pulling into places with my tires squeeling.  Once pulling up to an Autozone, This woman in a mini van told me, "oh man sounds like you need brakes, mine have sounded like that too." I just looked at her laughed and said "thats not my brakes, my locked diff makes my tires squeel," and went inside.  In my head I was like I hope your brakes dont sound like that often cause thats bad if your brakes are squeeling that bad. :ROFL:
"I dunno I just woke up from a lil nap, it's a lil dark but you guys silly? I'm still gonna send it."

 
 
 
 
 

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