Author Topic: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?  (Read 642 times)

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85Toyotar

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LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« on: Dec 01, 2019, 01:44:33 PM »
Someone give me some scenarios/insight on installing a Detroit truetrac vs installing a Zip air locker (for the rear btw) for a daily driver and weekend wheeler. Advantages/disadvantages for both as well. I want to be able to do generally all types of wheeling at roughly the same capability if possible. If that means snow, dry/wet dirt in the mountains with some rocks, and sand. Not really into hardcore mudding so none of that, also not talking about insane rock crawling either. Sure some decent sized rocks here and there nothing crazy. Currently my gears in my t case and axles are stock if that changes anyone's reply. And remember I am going to be driving most of the week on road and in the winter where I am we get a decent amount of snow and of course snow brings ice.
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85Toyotar [OP]

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #1 on: Dec 01, 2019, 02:20:02 PM »
Also is the truetrac basically the same thing as the Dura Grip Posi on marlins website?
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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #2 on: Dec 01, 2019, 03:46:33 PM »
I run a tru trac in my tow rig. Pros- completely mechanical and basically nothing to have fail. It gives a partial rotation of one tire before locking so it's great on the road and doesnt eat tires. Cons- I cant find any.

Air lockers are great but if you get out there and the pump takes a dump, or line gets broken somehow you are open diff. I would go tru trac for your application.
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
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85Toyotar [OP]

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #3 on: Dec 01, 2019, 07:12:35 PM »
I run a tru trac in my tow rig. Pros- completely mechanical and basically nothing to have fail. It gives a partial rotation of one tire before locking so it's great on the road and doesnt eat tires. Cons- I cant find any.

Air lockers are great but if you get out there and the pump takes a dump, or line gets broken somehow you are open diff. I would go tru trac for your application.

Here's the issue, I have no idea where to find a detroit truetrac for the 8 inch toyota diff on a 85 pickup. Another thing, all my gearing and axles are stock on my rig I think they're 27 spline. Dont quote me if I am wrong. Is there a truetrac that'll fit right into the rear of a bone stock Toyota? Anyone that has a link to a website for a Detroit Truetrac for a stock 1985 Toyota pickup please post it! I wish Marlin offered it.
« Last Edit: Dec 01, 2019, 07:20:49 PM by 85Toyotar »
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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #4 on: Dec 02, 2019, 04:39:06 AM »
https://www.justdifferentials.com/Toyota-8-Truetrac-p/tt913a610.htm

Use CK-TLC-B for "4 cyl” type differential

You have 30 spline shafts. All toyota 8" differentials are 30 spline. Just be sure you get the one for a 4cyl diff since that is what you have.
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
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gnob

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #5 on: Dec 02, 2019, 05:08:51 AM »
I ran a trutrac up front when I first started building my rig. 20+y.a.).
I personally thought it waz worthless.
A clutch LSD is a better option IMO (Supra 8" V6)
Or Toyota E-locker.
hold this. . .

85Toyotar [OP]

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #6 on: Dec 02, 2019, 05:52:31 AM »
I ran a trutrac up front when I first started building my rig. 20+y.a.).
I personally thought it waz worthless.
A clutch LSD is a better option IMO (Supra 8" V6)
Or Toyota E-locker.
I'm looking run it in the rear. And this thing is that I am gonna be driving every single day on road for the majority of the time.
« Last Edit: Dec 02, 2019, 04:15:37 PM by 85Toyotar »
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85Toyotar [OP]

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #7 on: Dec 02, 2019, 06:02:51 AM »
https://www.justdifferentials.com/Toyota-8-Truetrac-p/tt913a610.htm

Use CK-TLC-B for "4 cyl” type differential

You have 30 spline shafts. All toyota 8" differentials are 30 spline. Just be sure you get the one for a 4cyl diff since that is what you have.
On the LC Engineering page it says,
All pre-'95 4-cylinder 4wd mini-trucks & 4Runners use the Toyota 8" 2-pinion differential front and rear (except turbo models). This is known as the "4cyl diff." This diff is by far the most common diff in older Toyotas.
- Ten 10mm ring gear bolts
- 27 spline pinion
- 2-pinion carrier (case)
- V6 carriers can be used in this diff if the correct bearings are used
** 4cyl diffs are swappable with the V6 and high pinion diffs.
https://www.lcengineering.com/LCTechPages/DIFFERENTIALTOYOTATECH.html
But I am seeing all over that they're 27 spline or no they're 30 spline or they're 30 spline in the rear and 27 up front. All so confusing.
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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #8 on: Dec 02, 2019, 06:46:16 AM »
Pinion is 27 spline. The axles are 30.
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
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toyodaaddict

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #9 on: Dec 02, 2019, 12:39:59 PM »
Id probably go with an Elocker.   A lot of bang for your buck if you dont have to regear.
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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #10 on: Dec 02, 2019, 03:36:19 PM »
Given your needs and winter weather daily driving, I would opt for a selectable over a mechanical locker, that way it acts like an open diff when not engaged. 

A selectable does take a little more to install and run, but a cheap compressor and tank can be set-up if you don't want to pay for an ARB compressor, cheaply enough that you could carry a spare compressor and still be under the cost of an ARB compressor.

Outside of installer error, I have yet to see an air line fail or get ripped out while wheeling.
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85Toyotar [OP]

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #11 on: Dec 02, 2019, 04:12:33 PM »
Given your needs and winter weather daily driving, I would opt for a selectable over a mechanical locker, that way it acts like an open diff when not engaged. 

A selectable does take a little more to install and run, but a cheap compressor and tank can be set-up if you don't want to pay for an ARB compressor, cheaply enough that you could carry a spare compressor and still be under the cost of an ARB compressor.

Outside of installer error, I have yet to see an air line fail or get ripped out while wheeling.
I should have said in the original post that the snow has been heavy the past couple years but really is not super snowy for more than a month or two at most. 2 years ago I believe it was record breaking since 1979! I do like the idea of being able to turn it on and off with the flip of a switch with a selectable. The reason I have considered a truetrac is because of the ease of installment and maintenance it requires over a selectable locker. The truetrac really is making me want to choose it with its price and what it offers. About half the price of lets say a ZIP locker not including the compressor. If someone could explain to me the difference between 27 pinion and 30 splines and which applies to the locker/LSD I would appreciate it. And maybe some info on what I would need to do if I would want to install a truetrac on a stock rig. Do I need to replace my axles? My diff gears?
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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #12 on: Dec 02, 2019, 08:17:56 PM »
The pinion gear has 27 splines where the driveshaft mounting yoke slides on. Every factory Toyota 8" pinion gear is that way. Your axle shafts(which slide inside of the locker and your wheels bolt to them) are 30 spline. Again, all Toyota 8" axles ever made are factory 30 spline axles. The pinion spline count has nothing to do with the axle shafts or the locking differential.
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
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Snowtoy

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #13 on: Dec 02, 2019, 09:26:26 PM »
I should have said in the original post that the snow has been heavy the past couple years but really is not super snowy for more than a month or two at most. 2 years ago I believe it was record breaking since 1979! I do like the idea of being able to turn it on and off with the flip of a switch with a selectable. The reason I have considered a truetrac is because of the ease of installment and maintenance it requires over a selectable locker. The truetrac really is making me want to choose it with its price and what it offers. About half the price of lets say a ZIP locker not including the compressor. If someone could explain to me the difference between 27 pinion and 30 splines and which applies to the locker/LSD I would appreciate it. And maybe some info on what I would need to do if I would want to install a truetrac on a stock rig. Do I need to replace my axles? My diff gears?

The main issue with a mechanical locker and winter driving is ice, as it can make for sketchy driving.  With standard 4wd you have opposing wheels driving the vehicle, this balances out traction and keeps the rear from wanting to switch places with the front.  With a mechanical locker in the rear, this balance is upset, and you have to account for it when driving.  For some this isn't an issue, and say it is easy to compensate, others I know have swapped out their mechanical or spool, after the first time the rear end tried to come around them on ice.

Yes, mechanical lockers are cheaper and easier to install, but an ARB locker should only cost you an hour of bench labor for a shop to install it in your 3rd member.  Also, you do recoup the additional costs overtime with less tire wear, especially with a rig that is driven daily as a commuter vehicle.

Something else to consider is, do you really need a locker at this time, or for the type of trails you run, would a winch be more beneficial?
'90 black X-cab mod'd 3.0, 33's/4.88's, rear ARB, custom bumpers, sliders, safari rack, etc.
'91 Blue X-cab 22re, 35's/5.29's,Truetrac front, ARB rear, dual cases, and custom Safari flatbed, bumper, interior.
The money pit '87 Supra resto/mod

85Toyotar [OP]

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #14 on: Dec 02, 2019, 10:01:57 PM »
The main issue with a mechanical locker and winter driving is ice, as it can make for sketchy driving.  With standard 4wd you have opposing wheels driving the vehicle, this balances out traction and keeps the rear from wanting to switch places with the front.  With a mechanical locker in the rear, this balance is upset, and you have to account for it when driving.  For some this isn't an issue, and say it is easy to compensate, others I know have swapped out their mechanical or spool, after the first time the rear end tried to come around them on ice.

Yes, mechanical lockers are cheaper and easier to install, but an ARB locker should only cost you an hour of bench labor for a shop to install it in your 3rd member.  Also, you do recoup the additional costs overtime with less tire wear, especially with a rig that is driven daily as a commuter vehicle.

Something else to consider is, do you really need a locker at this time, or for the type of trails you run, would a winch be more beneficial?
I guess it would be smarter to save up a little longer to buy the ARB. Already got a winch. Installed it last weekend! :biggthumpup: Thank you for the reply.
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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #15 on: Dec 03, 2019, 03:05:13 AM »
My experience is different.

There are some great choices for lockers now.  The discussions, opinions, and experiences on this topic are DEEP and W-I-D-E!  :spin:

After actively 4-wheeling for about 18 years, 2 Toy pickups. If I built another truck for active wheeling and as my daily driver it would be locked front and rear.

I’d install a Detroit locker in the rear and one of Marlin’s favorite lockers in the front.

I would not spend the money on an ARB unless I won the Powerball.  While 4-wheeling - flipping a locker on and off never made sense to me, and I never felt like disconnecting a locker, front or rear, would make any difference on the obstacle I was on.  If an ARB is a choice for a daily driver and wheeler, it makes more sense to me to install one in the rear diff.

If wheeling is not frequent intense rock crawling, then a locker in the front with an open diff in the rear, although not ideal, would probably be adequate for much of the terrain.

Regarding reliability or longevity… I don’t see where any of the popular lockers is a concern.

We went 4-wheeling during winter months here in AZ typically a couple times. Deep snow and occasionally we’d encounter ice on the highway.  Having a locker front and rear for off-highway is better than an open diff. Period.

Snow wheeling was usually deeper than 6” and I chained up all 4-tires when I knew we’d be out for most of the day and we had more than a couple vehicles.  There was always someone who got stuck.  I always air’d down to about 5 PSI for the snow runs.

If negotiating terrain that’s icey... 1 – it is dangerous, whether you are open or locked.  2 – if you can’t control your vehicle on ice, you shouldn’t be driving on it, or you need more practice. 3 - Yes, the locked up rear end does want to push and come around, but I never found that I couldn’t adequately control it.  The benefit to having all wheels powered and driving is more important.   And 4- it was very rare that I found myself on pure ice for any length of terrain, so my concern for driving on it was minimal.  BUT…  I live in sunny AZ, not Minnesota.  Now with that said, if I lived in a very cold climate where icey road conditions were the norm for months at a time, an ARB in the rear diff to turn off the locker may be a benefit... although I don't have any experience with an ARB.

Regarding a winch…. I had Ramsey 8,000 with the Ramsey bumper.  It was a gift from Ramsey as part of their sponsored trip to the Dusy Irshim Trail with Off-Road magazine.  I used it about 6 or 7 times, and each time it was for pulling someone else’s vehicle.  Unless I was going out 4-wheeling by myself (which may not be the smartest thing to do) frequently, I would not spend the money on a winch.  It was very rare to be on typical trail run and not have at least one vehicle equipped with a winch.  It is nice have, and obviously it can be very handy when a vehicle has flopped, slide off the trail, got stuck, need pulling up a waterfall. It’s more status bling than truly useful to me.

That’s just my opinion – it may be worthless.  :gap:

Gnarls.  :blah:


« Last Edit: Dec 03, 2019, 03:58:12 AM by Gnarly4X »
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85Toyotar [OP]

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #16 on: Dec 06, 2019, 07:28:55 AM »
My experience is different.

There are some great choices for lockers now.  The discussions, opinions, and experiences on this topic are DEEP and W-I-D-E!  :spin:

After actively 4-wheeling for about 18 years, 2 Toy pickups. If I built another truck for active wheeling and as my daily driver it would be locked front and rear.

I’d install a Detroit locker in the rear and one of Marlin’s favorite lockers in the front.

I would not spend the money on an ARB unless I won the Powerball.  While 4-wheeling - flipping a locker on and off never made sense to me, and I never felt like disconnecting a locker, front or rear, would make any difference on the obstacle I was on.  If an ARB is a choice for a daily driver and wheeler, it makes more sense to me to install one in the rear diff.

If wheeling is not frequent intense rock crawling, then a locker in the front with an open diff in the rear, although not ideal, would probably be adequate for much of the terrain.

Regarding reliability or longevity… I don’t see where any of the popular lockers is a concern.

We went 4-wheeling during winter months here in AZ typically a couple times. Deep snow and occasionally we’d encounter ice on the highway.  Having a locker front and rear for off-highway is better than an open diff. Period.

Snow wheeling was usually deeper than 6” and I chained up all 4-tires when I knew we’d be out for most of the day and we had more than a couple vehicles.  There was always someone who got stuck.  I always air’d down to about 5 PSI for the snow runs.

If negotiating terrain that’s icey... 1 – it is dangerous, whether you are open or locked.  2 – if you can’t control your vehicle on ice, you shouldn’t be driving on it, or you need more practice. 3 - Yes, the locked up rear end does want to push and come around, but I never found that I couldn’t adequately control it.  The benefit to having all wheels powered and driving is more important.   And 4- it was very rare that I found myself on pure ice for any length of terrain, so my concern for driving on it was minimal.  BUT…  I live in sunny AZ, not Minnesota.  Now with that said, if I lived in a very cold climate where icey road conditions were the norm for months at a time, an ARB in the rear diff to turn off the locker may be a benefit... although I don't have any experience with an ARB.

Regarding a winch…. I had Ramsey 8,000 with the Ramsey bumper.  It was a gift from Ramsey as part of their sponsored trip to the Dusy Irshim Trail with Off-Road magazine.  I used it about 6 or 7 times, and each time it was for pulling someone else’s vehicle.  Unless I was going out 4-wheeling by myself (which may not be the smartest thing to do) frequently, I would not spend the money on a winch.  It was very rare to be on typical trail run and not have at least one vehicle equipped with a winch.  It is nice have, and obviously it can be very handy when a vehicle has flopped, slide off the trail, got stuck, need pulling up a waterfall. It’s more status bling than truly useful to me.

That’s just my opinion – it may be worthless.  :gap:

Gnarls.  :blah:

I don't really want to spend the money on the ARB personally. I am really interested in the truetrac though. I have heard good things about them. I am not a hardcore wheeler as of right now but I want to be as I slowly get practice in over time! I don't really know what I am looking at though when searching for one? I tend to overthink things a lot when buying stuff. Do you have any experience with a truetrac Gnarly? Do you maybe have a link to a website that has em? I don't like asking for this sort of help cause I dont want to waste anyones time or become a burden/annoyance. What would I have to do to install one? Do I need any replacement parts? I am slow on understanding how stuff works on vehicles. I will probably be having a shop install it to be safe and not ruin my gears by doing it myself.

I found this after responding above: https://www.4wheelparts.com/p/eaton-detroit-truetrac-toyota-8-inch-4-cyl-rear-differential-913a611/_/R-BHXC-913A611?gclid=CjwKCAiAlajvBRB_EiwA4vAqiE0NPfn6IQCZDdR4k79r-DX1dLb-gUvITtoglwO59THjpSG1om7uQxoCwHYQAvD_BwE&ecmp=s:google_1749763888_65275301221__aud-320825497387:pla-669266118211_Eaton_EAT913A611_base_US&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping&emlprox=out&ppcfon=1&gp=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&sc_intid=EAT913A611&ef_id=CjwKCAiAlajvBRB_EiwA4vAqiE0NPfn6IQCZDdR4k79r-DX1dLb-gUvITtoglwO59THjpSG1om7uQxoCwHYQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!7836!3!340663032463!!!g!669266118211!&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SC%20Shopping%20-%20NTM%20Desktop&ecmp=s:google_1749763888_65275301221__aud-320825497387:pla-669266118211
Is 4wp is good dealer? Or should I stay away from them? Again this is for a stock geared 1985 4 cyl toyota pickup.
« Last Edit: Dec 06, 2019, 07:34:58 AM by 85Toyotar »
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cavey

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #17 on: Dec 07, 2019, 12:58:18 AM »
i have 2 Detroits, front and rear in my 1989 LN106  hilux   which is my DD , i bought them in 1994 and the rear one has done 440000kms never had a spanner on either  except to change crownwheels  the rear is on its 4th  from memory , on the road they are great   tyre wear is not worth worrying about  as  I used to run BFG mud Terrain s in 32 x 11.5  and I could get 100000kms out of a set of 5  but that was in the 1990s  to early 2000s   the tyres now only last about 70/80000kms   like my last set of Cooper ST , the only thing with Detroits is that they rely on the friction between the tyre and the road to work   , if there if no friction the Detroit will lockup and stay that way  until sufficient friction is encountered , I have had the rear break loose  numerous times and the back steps out on a corner   ,no problem if you are aware of it , just apply opposite lock and keep going ,  have driven in snow  but not encountered ice , in snow about 3 inches deep on a dirt road  have had the rear break loose in 2wd  whilst accelerating and the turbo getting on boost
  ARB air lockers when locked create more tyre wear  and if the o rings in the piston leak or fail the locker doesnt work and you can get the smell of EP gear oil from the compressor   
own a 1989  LN106r diesel with a 1KZ-T 3 litre turbo diesel  bolted to a imported R151F gearbox with snorkel Rancho springs & shocks & Detroit lockers F & R & 11x 32  cooper sst ultimate dual transfer cases 130 litre fuel tank   full floating disc brake rear end

cavey

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #18 on: Dec 07, 2019, 01:02:28 AM »
I imported mine from 4wheelparts.com
own a 1989  LN106r diesel with a 1KZ-T 3 litre turbo diesel  bolted to a imported R151F gearbox with snorkel Rancho springs & shocks & Detroit lockers F & R & 11x 32  cooper sst ultimate dual transfer cases 130 litre fuel tank   full floating disc brake rear end

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #19 on: Dec 07, 2019, 03:16:04 AM »
... Do you have any experience with a truetrac Gnarly?

Hey 85Toyotar,

“The Truetrac operates as a standard or open differential under normal driving conditions, allowing one wheel to spin faster or slower as necessary. When a wheel encounters a loss of traction or the terrain changes, the gear separation forces take effect and transfer torque to the high-traction wheel. The helical-shaped gears mesh with increasing force until wheel spin is slowed or completely stopped. When the vehicle exits the low traction situation, the differential resumes normal operation.”

The TruTrac is very high quality device and probably works very well in many applications.

I had a TruTrac installed my 1st 1986 Longbed in the front diff.  If I remember correctly back then there was no optional locker for that diff.  I had a Detroit Locker installed in the rear.

The only problem I had with the TruTrac was simply not enough traction when I wanted it.  When one wheel is spinning and it suddenly touches down on the terrain it tends to keep spinning until it gains traction and the torque transfers.  Then the other tire loses some torque.  I had to tap or press on the brake to keep the free wheel from spinning and maintain even torque between the two wheels. This effect is most noticeable when climbing and the weight of the front end has shifted heavily to the rear wheels. With a locker both wheels have applied torque.  For my 4-wheeling, a locker is my choice.  :blah:

Regarding asking questions here for help or commenting on topics, you should not feel uncomfortable.  But.. this is a public forum, so there is a wide range of personalities sitting behind their keyboards.  :thumbs:

Gnarls.  :gap:


1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #20 on: Dec 07, 2019, 03:23:22 AM »
i have 2 Detroits, front and rear in my 1989 LN106  hilux   which is my DD

Hey cavey,

Just to be clear, those were Detroit Lockers... Not Detroit TruTracs?

I also did NOT experience any abnormal tire wear on any of my Detroit Locker equipped trucks.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

cavey

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #21 on: Dec 09, 2019, 02:25:39 AM »
definitely Detroit Lockers
own a 1989  LN106r diesel with a 1KZ-T 3 litre turbo diesel  bolted to a imported R151F gearbox with snorkel Rancho springs & shocks & Detroit lockers F & R & 11x 32  cooper sst ultimate dual transfer cases 130 litre fuel tank   full floating disc brake rear end

Gnarly4X

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #22 on: Dec 09, 2019, 02:46:46 AM »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Snowtoy

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #23 on: Dec 09, 2019, 02:48:31 PM »

I would not spend the money on an ARB unless I won the Powerball.  While 4-wheeling - flipping a locker on and off never made sense to me, and I never felt like disconnecting a locker, front or rear, would make any difference on the obstacle I was on.  If an ARB is a choice for a daily driver and wheeler, it makes more sense to me to install one in the rear diff.

Lockers, of any kind, will always want to push you in a straight line, which in my experience, will often push you off the line you wanted to be on, or making it hard to take the line you want.  While this is less of an issue for the experienced wheeler, it can be a PITA for the novice/intermediate wheeler, and for those spotting them, as they don't have seat time necessary to compensate for this.  I wheeled open diffs for almost 15yrs, and after 15yrs of running lockers, I still prefer wheeling an open diff as the default setting, for me, a selectable locker is no different than dual cases,and engage them only when only when needed.


I don't really want to spend the money on the ARB personally. I am really interested in the truetrac though. I have heard good things about them. I am not a hardcore wheeler as of right now but I want to be as I slowly get practice in over time! I don't really know what I am looking at though when searching for one? I tend to overthink things a lot when buying stuff. Do you have any experience with a truetrac Gnarly? Do you maybe have a link to a website that has em? I don't like asking for this sort of help cause I dont want to waste anyones time or become a burden/annoyance. What would I have to do to install one? Do I need any replacement parts? I am slow on understanding how stuff works on vehicles. I will probably be having a shop install it to be safe and not ruin my gears by doing it myself.

As Gnarly mentioned, trutracs are good, but getting them to engage when needed can be an issue, if you had dual cases, or an auto trans, it would be better, as you can use the brakes to engage it without stalling, a hand throttle can help with this.  If it is one or the other, I would go with a standard mechanical over the trutrac.

A new ARB isn't your only option, the Toyota e-locker is also available, and can usually be found used for about $600, though it does take some slight modification to the stock housing to install it.


'90 black X-cab mod'd 3.0, 33's/4.88's, rear ARB, custom bumpers, sliders, safari rack, etc.
'91 Blue X-cab 22re, 35's/5.29's,Truetrac front, ARB rear, dual cases, and custom Safari flatbed, bumper, interior.
The money pit '87 Supra resto/mod

85Toyotar [OP]

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #24 on: Dec 09, 2019, 07:01:34 PM »
Lockers, of any kind, will always want to push you in a straight line, which in my experience, will often push you off the line you wanted to be on, or making it hard to take the line you want.  While this is less of an issue for the experienced wheeler, it can be a PITA for the novice/intermediate wheeler, and for those spotting them, as they don't have seat time necessary to compensate for this.  I wheeled open diffs for almost 15yrs, and after 15yrs of running lockers, I still prefer wheeling an open diff as the default setting, for me, a selectable locker is no different than dual cases,and engage them only when only when needed.


As Gnarly mentioned, trutracs are good, but getting them to engage when needed can be an issue, if you had dual cases, or an auto trans, it would be better, as you can use the brakes to engage it without stalling, a hand throttle can help with this.  If it is one or the other, I would go with a standard mechanical over the trutrac.

A new ARB isn't your only option, the Toyota e-locker is also available, and can usually be found used for about $600, though it does take some slight modification to the stock housing to install it.
I see, the engaging part does seem like a pain with the trutracs. I am just a little skeptical with the standard lockers and how they engage/disengage while driving, unnecessary tire wear, it always being on, etc.

Aside from locker talk, you mentioned dual cases. I have done some reading and talked to people I know who run a single 4.7 case and I just cant get over the fact of how slow you are going in 4 lo. I would want to run dual 2.3s over a single 4.7 no doubt. What exactly does marlin sell that I would NEED to do a dual case set up? And where could I find another set of 2.3 gears new? I am sure I could find some in a parts/donor car but lets just say I wanted it new.

Maybe you guys could give me some options on what I can do to make my truck a better wheeler with open diffs. Snowtoy mentioned a dual case/lower t-case gears. Anything thing else? Like I said my truck is basically stock. No lift, 31 inch tires, rancho shocks all around, stock diff and t-case gears. I bought a marlin rear bumper last week thats coming tomorrow :disturbed: which I am happy about. I like what you said Snowtoy about preferring open diffs overall. Makes me reconsider buying a locker right away.
Blue 85' Toyota Pickup 22r

85Toyotar [OP]

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #25 on: Dec 09, 2019, 07:26:11 PM »
I am looking on marlins store page for transfer case built units. Now someone correct me if I am wrong, a "dual case complete" installed would make it considered a triple case because you also include the stock transfer case gears as well plus the 2 additional gears added? And a "dual case unit" would be a dual case because it is only adding one more set of gears with the included stock t-case gears?
Blue 85' Toyota Pickup 22r

Gnarly4X

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #26 on: Dec 09, 2019, 07:56:47 PM »
To each his own.

I prefer to be locked up front and rear.  There is no way I would do any kind off-roading without lockers.  Open diffs is two wheel drive and that will not get you very far on practically any type of off-road terrain other than a flat gravel road.

Yes.... I've witnessed open diff Toyota pickups negotiate a nasty obstacle but not without some horrific wang'n and bang'n and multiple attempts.... too dangerous and too risky for costly damage and unnecessary carnage.

With open diffs in 4-wheel drive the slightest dip in the terrain where one wheel front wheel and one rear wheel is off the ground,  you will just sit and spin tires.  NO BUENO!

I did trail running with open diffs about 1 time and then immediately had a Detroit Locker and Trutrac installed!  I installed lockers in my front and rear in my 85 before doing any trails.

Regarding Dual Cases – I ran a single MC case in my 85 and wheeled it for 10 years on the most difficult trails in Moab, California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Sonora Mexico.  I didn't feel the need to be lower geared for the rock crawling I did.  Regarding a hand throttle.... big pain in the arse and can get you in trouble quickly when fiddling with it while attempting to negotiate an obstacle.

ARBs and electric lockers have inherent issues with potential failure.  An auto locking locker is practically failure proof, and reliability is very well known.  Again, I never saw any excessive tire where in either one of my pick ups with lockers.  There is some rear tire scuffing, but it is negligible.

Driving a vehicle with a locker installed in the rear diff does have inherent quirks.  It sometimes clanks.  It will stay engaged if you power around a turn, which will usually make the inside tire squeal.  And yes, lockers in the rear and front diff will tend to “push” your straight and make in more tricky to turn.  While this is normal, it's easy to get used to and control, even if you are a novice - and I have witnessed MANY novices on the trails.

If you are really concerned about the locker in the rear and it’s behavior on the street, go with a Trutrac or an ARB.  :thumbs:

Just my experience...

Gnarls.  :gap:
« Last Edit: Dec 09, 2019, 08:02:53 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

helipilot77

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #27 on: Dec 09, 2019, 08:20:23 PM »
The main issue with a mechanical locker and winter driving is ice, as it can make for sketchy driving.  With standard 4wd you have opposing wheels driving the vehicle, this balances out traction and keeps the rear from wanting to switch places with the front.  With a mechanical locker in the rear, this balance is upset, and you have to account for it when driving.  For some this isn't an issue, and say it is easy to compensate, others I know have swapped out their mechanical or spool, after the first time the rear end tried to come around them on ice.

Yes, mechanical lockers are cheaper and easier to install, but an ARB locker should only cost you an hour of bench labor for a shop to install it in your 3rd member.  Also, you do recoup the additional costs overtime with less tire wear, especially with a rig that is driven daily as a commuter vehicle.

Something else to consider is, do you really need a locker at this time, or for the type of trails you run, would a winch be more beneficial?

Unfortunately I have seen a solenoid fail on the trail at a MCRoundup. The guy had a CO2 tank and it drained his tank and he couldn't operate either diff after that. It does seems like a rare occurrence
-1987 SR5 4runner, 1KZ-te turbo diesel with custom 3" S.S. dump pipe, R-151f transmission, marlin dual ultimate transfer cases w/ triple shifter, SAS, 35's https://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98969.0
-1984 SR5 Tercel 4wd wagon bone stock - given to my nephew https://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=100547.0
-1:10 scale RC 4wd crawler w/yota axles, R2 2 speed enclosed dig tranny and 1st gen 4Runner body by BigBird
-My front axle service write-up http://board.marlincrawler.com/i

85Toyotar [OP]

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #28 on: Dec 09, 2019, 08:33:17 PM »
Unfortunately I have seen a solenoid fail on the trail at a MCRoundup. The guy had a CO2 tank and it drained his tank and he couldn't operate either diff after that. It does seems like a rare occurrence
Sounds like a sad day  :rivers:
Blue 85' Toyota Pickup 22r

emsvitil

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Re: LSD, Lockers, whatre my options?
« Reply #29 on: Dec 10, 2019, 02:15:48 AM »
A line-lock can handle the brakes up front, and the parking brake the rear for a Trutrac…..
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
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