Author Topic: Sleeved 22R block  (Read 1110 times)

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sirdeuce

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Sleeved 22R block
« on: May 13, 2019, 07:19:39 PM »
Has anybody had experience, or heard of, sleeving a 22R block for a greater bore diameter? Maybe a set of chromoly sleeves to take the bore over the 94mm max.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

jimbo74

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2019, 10:54:56 PM »
what are you trying to do? save a damaged block or build a hot rod?
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Gnarly4X

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2019, 04:39:31 AM »
what are you trying to do? save a damaged block or build a hot rod?

 :dunno:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2019, 09:15:34 AM »
Looking to build a grunt motor. I've done the stroke bit, back in the mid '80s, Thinking or resurrecting the old stroker and punching out the cylinders as far as possible. I just don't have a block open to do any tinkering with.

As far as use? Putt putt, 2WD. Probably be my last 22R project.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

Gnarly4X

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2019, 07:35:57 PM »
“grunt”…. So the word implies low end torque?

“Putt putt”… not sure what that means… possibly lugging it around town… no racing?

94mm seems to be an acceptable overbore.

If I were going to do that, I’d have the block sonic tested and magnafluxed.  I’d keep the compression 9 or below.

That much overbore will increase the power.  There is a list of optional mods and parts selection that I would carefully consider.

I’d have a conversation with Jim at 22RE Performance and one of engine builders at LCE to get their input.

I don’t know if there is any kind of non-manageable cooling issues with the thinner cylinder walls?

I would weigh the cost of a big overbore for power gains vs. other optional modifications for power gain.

With a big bore will a ported head, larger valves, and a torquey cam be an important complement?

If I took a factory stock 22R and bored to 94mm and rebuilt back with no other mods, I’d get about 7 lbs of torque and a 2 HP gain.  In my experience, 7 lbs of increase torque would be noticeable.

Gnarls.  :gap:

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2019, 10:58:24 AM »
Yeah Gnarls, I have thought all about that, even looking at the LCE supercharger kit. I got my first Toyota back in '86 when I got out of the ARMY. Almost immediately started modding the 22R. In '88 I took a crank to shop and had them weld and offset grind the crank to what they thought would be the max for the block. Turned out to be 94mm (maybe they had heard of LCE back then). Went with a 93mm bore for a 2.5l displacement. Of course I used the "tall" 22R block, it's what I had. I used a set of Chevy rods, 6" C-C length ( a set of rods made by lost wax, investment casting process, a work of art really! Look up Mechart connecting rods.) and custom pistons, topped off with a 20R head with 22R valves and dual Mikuni carbs from one of my 18RGs. It was an insane 4 banger for it's time! And in a light weight '74 Celica it took a lot of "American muscle" guys by surprise!

But I've always wondered if I could make a bigger engine, It's a mountain I want to climb.

I already have the ported big valve head covered, I can go 20R or 22R. I do want to go EFI, and that would mean using the 22R head as the LCE kits fit them. The 20R head would need more work than it already has. I don't even care if the power is all in by 5k RPM.  Cam will be decided upon later, probably just use the one I have sitting in a box, 250/260 in/ex with I believe .470" lift. Should make for an interestingly stout bruiser.

Thin wall cylinders? I'm sure it would require custom sleeves, Probably not too thin in the walls then. I'll know more of what is possible after I dig out a block.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2019, 11:02:54 AM »
I am sure, beyond a doubt it WON'T be worth it.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

Gnarly4X

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2019, 05:10:50 AM »
I'v never been involved with cylinder sleeving, but I do know its a very precise process.

If you post here, I'm very interested in following you along if you do sleeve a block and build this engine!!  :beerchug:

I'll play with some numbers, based on your descriptions, in my Performance Trends Engine Analyzer in the next couple days and post the results.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

redneckcustoms13

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2019, 06:03:39 AM »
In high school I built a little hot rod 20/22 with a stroker kit making it a 2.7l displacement. I never put it on a dyno but it was somewhere in the range of 200hp if I had to put a number on it. It was carbed and mainly a street use but I did hunt out of it. That being said I know that feeling of making a turd fast.

While I admire the thought and willingness to experiment I have a few questions.
You are wanting to go efi, why not do a more modern engine?
You are thinking of possible forced induction
You want big hp in a small package.
All of those things scream 2/3rz. A turbo or sc 3rz is easily capable of 300hp on stock internals. It has obd2 so trouble shooting and monitoring are a breeze. They are darn near everywhere now for a fair price.
Just some food for thought. I admire the old 22r tractor motor but its modern brother is much more powerful.
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
01 double cab hunting truck
06 tacoma street truck

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2019, 08:59:40 AM »
Redneck, I've had 2/3RZ engines, they do pretty well enough, but like I said earlier, I've had a relationship with the 18/20/22R engine for quite some time. I've had MANY cars with a widely varied engine selection. I haven't, however, really done anything with the RE. I've had just about every carbureted set-up available for an R engine, including modifying the Aisin progressive vacuum secondary that came stock on the 20R. That was an awesome carb after the mods.
I have cars with more modern to modern engines, like my Mazdaspeed3. That MZR engine is a beast from Mazdaspeed, and it can be trained to be a MONSTER! Not to mention my MR2 that spins to nearly 9000rpm, fuel cut at 8800rpm, but doesn't have any hp to brag about. Sounds awesome though!
Forced induction is something I've been considering for a long time, just like the sound and feel of an N/A engine.
Not looking for big HP in a small package here, looking for big torque! Like Gnarls said, lug around town, no racing. 200ftlb torque at 3000rpm is about 115hp. Looking for that kind of output.
If I were to go do a swap I'd go for a 2JZ or 1UZ or even try an MZR. 2JZ I don't have to say anything else on that. 1UZ would be N/A with ITBs, sends shivers up the spine! And the MZR? Stock MZR, tuned with intake and exhaust bolt-ons can net 300+p at the wheels and upwards of 330 torque. Pop in an upgraded HPFP(high pressure fuel pump) and bigger turbo, tune for E85 and 500whp/wtq has been done on stock internals. Insanity in a FWD car. I put my MS3 on the dyno a few months after I got it and it was putting it's rated crank hp/tq to the wheels. Imagine my surprise! I've driven one of these cars that puts over 400hp/tq to the ground. Lets just say it's fun, but not something to daily drive.
This is a nostalgia thing at the least. I'm inspired by this project by the memory of a race I had in my '77 Celica back in the early '90s. I took out a CRX shifting at 3000rpm. Guy in the CRX didn't believe he lost to what he saw. That was a gutted Celica, under 1900lbs, with a 20/22R running a single Weber 40DEFEV down draft with headers( bunch of stuff in the engine too). So my idea is a 22R powerband, all in by 5000rpm with stump pulling torque.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

zippo

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2019, 09:31:17 AM »
Having put the Camden (lce) supercharger on a 22re, I would not do it again. I would turbo it. Then again I would never put money in another 22 build. Just swap it. I have done 3rz and 5vz swaps and by far the 5vz is just awesome in early vehicles.

The issue is even if you spent 10k on building up a 22 motor you would be lucky to hit 200hp. The money could be better spent.  It I understand somtimes it's not about the numbers.
If you see it, its for sale.

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2019, 04:34:05 PM »
Nope, not about numbers, not at all.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

Gnarly4X

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2019, 09:25:44 AM »
.... So my idea is a 22R powerband, all in by 5000rpm with stump pulling torque.

A 200 HP 22RE can be built with lots of low end torque.

I think it will take a MegaSquirt type controller, custom injectors, a longer stroke, and a high compression ratio, and a carefully selected cam profile, an really good AFR gauge, lots and lots of tuning, and probably some other goodies.

It would be WAY easier with a carb’d engine.

But… I am NOT an engine builder.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2019, 02:36:19 PM »
Yep, been there, done that. I've built 200+hp 20/22r engines for my Celicas. Been through several sets of carbs and done just about everything you can think of to do to these heads. I've had 8000rpm Rs. I can tell you it's possible to get 160hp with a weber 40DFEV, single downdraft synchro 40mm 2bbl. The EFI, I'm sure, is not that hard to get that level power from with the proper tuning, probably have to ditch the AFM and go MAP, or use a Supra AFM. A stand alone is definitely a good direction to go, but I'm still trying to verify whether a piggyback will work with the 22RE ECU.

I think it will, but does anybody know if the Greddy e-manage will work with the 22RE ECU? I'll be using the '89 to'95 electronics.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

Gnarly4X

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2019, 05:30:35 AM »
Yep, been there, done that. I've built 200+hp 20/22r engines for my Celicas.

Hey sirdeuce...

It will be interesting to see "how" your build will get you to 200 HP?  :gap:

Based upon this:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjp71E6BJcc    ....  will you have to stroke it?  :dunno:

Gnarls.  :inthedark:

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2019, 09:26:32 AM »
I do have a 94mm stroke crank for this build, so that's covered. But, the easiest way to get 200hp from a build of this kind would be to destroke the engine, say 80mm or less, increase the rod length and shoot for a high RPM. Torque would fall off, mid and upper range power would increase, and the engine would have a narrower powerband. Dual side draft carbs or ITB with EFI would be necessary. Could probably get a lot more than 200hp if this direction were taken. Imagine a 22R with a 96mm bore and a 75mm stroke spinning to 10,000RPM. Wouldn't have any useable power below 5000RPM. Not really something you'd want in a crawler.

That's not what I'm looking for here.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 09:32:27 AM by sirdeuce »
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2019, 09:43:54 AM »
If anyone wants to fund a destroked 22R build let me know. I'll be more than glad to do the work. Taking donations, need $25k-$35k and a '71-'77 Celica or '72-'81 pickup to put it in.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

Gnarly4X

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2019, 12:18:25 PM »
OK… I thought you were wanting a low RPM torquey engine with “grunt”.  :headscratch:

The high RPM engines are exciting and sound incredible.  :thumbs:

I had a ‘67 Stingray coupe with a richard (D.I.C.K )Guldstrand built 327, solid lifters, very high RPM. It didn’t want to idle under 1500 RPMs… it was scary fast.  I’d give my left testicle to have that car back!   :lipsrsealed:

During a trip to Glamis one year, I got to ride in an early Land Cruiser plastic bodied sand rail with a 9,500 RPM blown Chevy 377 (400 block with a 350 crank)!  It was more than scary fast on the sand.  Probably the most G-force I ever felt in a vehicle.  :thumbsup:

Yeah….. RPMs can be orgasmic.  Yep… those were the days!! :beerchug:

It’s my understanding when you go high RPMs you will need to consider very high strength parts, like rod that won’t flex, valves that won’t float, etc.  Yeah… $25,000 to $35,000 may be the cost?  :yikes:

Definitely not the same project, but my choice would be my friends offer to swap my 22RE for a L33 5.3 LS aluminum block, dyno’d at 420 HP for about $8,000…. Would one of those fit in a ’77 Celica or 71 to 82 pickup?  :dunno:

Gnarls.  :gap:
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 12:25:54 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2019, 12:57:54 PM »
Yep, an engine with grunt is my goal, 200hp not in the plans.

I'm a four banger fanatic, got out of V8s in the mid '80s.

A small block engine would fit easily enough in a RWD Celica or early pickup, a big block would need some work. But I wouldn't do it. Not for me.

The whole thing about the high RPM build was an example of how to get high hp from a 22R. Although, it would be a blast!
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

EASYRYDERDANGER

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2019, 06:18:34 PM »
This plating process is pretty cheap considering.  Could call them and ask.  https://www.millennium-tech.net/serviceInfo.php?id=1

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2019, 07:43:56 PM »
Plating is a surface repair, good for rare or hard to find blocks. If the thoughts are to make a cylinder wall harder the aerospace tech has a chrome plating for cylinders. The purpose of sleeving in this post is for making a larger bore possible, not a repair. I'm considering the possibility of a 96mm or more bore in a 22R block. At this stage in the life of the 22R engine the blocks are still semi-plentiful so repairing a block isn't necessary, unless of course you want to have a matching numbers resto.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2019, 08:30:19 PM »
Had a conversation about this subject with a person that has done this process on a few engines. With a quick measurement of a handy block and general knowledge, a bore of 97mm should be possible. So, if I were to get that far, a 97mm bore with my 94mm crank would net a displacement of 2778cc. A 2.8 liter 22R, WOOOHOO!! The sleeves would have to be custom made Siamese wet sleeves, $$$$, the block basically gutted, cut the cylinders out completely and the proper base and top lands cut to accept the cylinders, $$$. Then the block would get decked and bored, $$. The suggestion of cementing the block for the bottom of the cylinder where no combustion heat is present for cylinder strengthening and added block rigidity, $. Off the top of the head guesstimation would be a few thousand. Definitely not worth it, but maayybee……. See how crazy I get about this idea.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

Gnarly4X

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2019, 04:30:48 AM »
.... Definitely not worth it, but maayybee……. See how crazy I get about this idea.

Hey sirdeuce….

I understand the desire and coolness to build an engine like that… Unique and perhaps never been done to a 22.

That type of “thinking-outside-the-box” often moves the needle in engine design modification.

It would be fun to open the hood and show the guy you just smoked his V-8 powered mini, or new Mustang….. surprise…

Other guy:  “Man! What the hell is under that hood!?

Sirdeuce:  Well.. it’s just a little 4 banger… a 22R.

Other guy:  “It’s not stock?”  No turbo, no blower, no nitrous?”

Sirdeuce:  No…it’s just a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder.”

Other guy:  No WAY!

Sirdeuce:  “Oh…well…. “It’s been slightly modified.”

Gnarls.


« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 05:57:43 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

emsvitil

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2019, 05:23:25 AM »
For a torque motor, you'll be in the 150-160hp range with 200-210ftlbs.

There's a plug and play microsquirt that you can use to replace the stock 22RE ECU.

I think LCE has a replacement non-flapper air flow meter that's also plug and play.

You could avoid the whole air flow meter by going to a MAP system.   Either speed-density or percent baro (variation of speed-density)

Not sure if plug and play microsquirt can be changed to MAP type. (this would allow you to start with plug and play microsquirt, get it working, then get rid of air flow meter later)
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Gnarly4X

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2019, 06:57:39 AM »
I played with some numbers with Engine Analyzer based upon sirdeuce's comments and posts. :smokin:

The attached Excel sheet (xls) shows some interesting torque and HP numbers.  :burnout:

His comment that the torque numbers would be low in the lower RPM range is correct.  :thumbs:

How close these numbers are to his real build may or may not be accurate.  :dunno:

Gnarls. :gap:
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 07:14:55 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2019, 09:35:40 AM »
"It's been slightly modified", I've used that line a few times, typically with a rocking of the hand. '77 Celica in the low 13s in the mid '80s and a turbo Bug touching the 10s in the late '80s. The bug weighed in at under 1700 with me in the seat! 2.2 liters of pissed off boxer fury!

200-225tq at 2400-3000rpm is what I was looking at depending on cam and head. Hp would be 160-170 in the 5000-5700rpm range, again head and cam. Using the 22R head will help with the lower range, 20R head will work better mid to high end, if you can call 5000rpm high.

ECU? I have several options here with Megasquirt as a possibilty, most likely Megasquirt. I am looking into using a piggy back, just need to verify compatability. Supposedly, the E-manage will work with the later ECU, AND, convert to MAP. Other option on MAF would be to use a turbo 7MGTE AFM and tune for that. So many options.

There is the possibility of putting a blower on this as well. I've toyed with the idea of adapting an Mercedes/Eaton M62to a 4AGE and 22R in the past. With the right combustion chamber and piston shape/preparation a mid range compression 9.5-10 to 1 can handle a low boost, like .5 Bar if tuned right. (My Mazdaspeed3's engine is 9.5 to 1 compression and boosts to a tad over 2.0 Bar(30.2 psi), That's 263hp and 280tq from a 2.3l.)

This is all just an idea right now, Mulling it over in my head, see how things go. Sad thing about my 'off the wall' builds is the time I take on them. My '7AGE' is taking me 7 years to build, 4 years was just research, the last 3 we've moved 4 times. That engine is 1.8l and should put out 160/160 hp/tq.  Not big numbers, but the 4AGE does 115hp and 98tq.


Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

Gnarly4X

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2019, 11:34:26 AM »
200-225tq at 2400-3000rpm is what I was looking at depending on cam and head. Hp would be 160-170 in the 5000-5700rpm range, again head and cam.

To keep torque in that RPM range what cam profile do you need?  :dunno:

What exhaust system design will you look at? :dunno:

Quote
This is all just an idea right now ... My '7AGE' is taking me 7 years to build...

7 YEARS!!!!! Holy Crapity!!...... I could be soylent green by then!!  :yikes:

 :haha:  Is this fake engine building?   :laugh:

Gnarls. :willynilly:




1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2019, 05:03:37 PM »
Cam profile? with this stroke and bore 210-215 degree @.040 lift with .480-.500 lift, 48mm intake valves and 37.5 exhaust and port work to support high velocity flow.
Exhaust is undecided as of yet, but a tri-y into a slightly larger header back exhaust than the collector exit.
No, not a fake engine build, exploring the possibilities, examining options, and after all has been verified for fit find the manufacturer to supply parts and a shop to install the parts. That was just getting the cylinder sleeved! Then the head has to be done. The combustion chamber needs to be "chambered" to match the bore size as best as possible, and volume measured. Then the combustion chamber needs to be cast so the custom pistons can be machined to match the chamber and designed to support intake charge flow, typically a bunch of back and forth with the person designing the piston crown. Then the pistons arrive. Now the block can be bore, balancing done and the block assembled. While all that is going on the head is machined to your specs in the ports and deck. Now the engine goes together, gets installed and tuned. 2 years in the making. That is funds and time permitting.

Condensed version of an experimental engine build by a 'hobbiest'. You should try it some time. You should read my description of my examination of 4AGE piston/7AGE rod assembly.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

Gnarly4X

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2019, 05:33:43 AM »
... 200-225tq at 2400-3000rpm is what I was looking at depending on cam and head. Hp would be 160-170 in the 5000-5700rpm range, again head and cam. Using the 22R head will help with the lower range, 20R head will work better mid to high end, if you can call 5000rpm high.


Hey sirdeuce....

I think your target low end torque and HP numbers may be a real challenge for you.  :beerchug:

I'm a huge fan of low end torque in these engines.  Since I don't race, my power target is to get best torque where I use it the most - right in the RPM range you mentioned 2,400 to 3,000, with a peak between 3000 and 3200 RPMs!!  Of course there is a trade-off for HP in the upper RPMs, right?  :blah:

I believe to get those big torque numbers in that RPM range, the head and porting diameter will be the biggest factors.  Of course, the valve events and choice of cam profile will have an affect.

Going too big on the lift will tend to move the power up in RPMs.  :yesnod:

Exhaust design will have some effect - tri-y vs 4-into-1?  :thumbs:

That's just my opinion based on playing with specs and numbers in Engine Analyzer for the past 10 years and the little bit I understand about flow data.  It's mostly virtual data for me... limited REAL experience.   :driving:

Gnarls. :gap:

« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 06:17:57 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

sirdeuce [OP]

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Re: Sleeved 22R block
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2019, 05:19:55 PM »
Main work would be in the head of course. Keeping the intake runners long will help. Having the valves as big as I want will work better with a 20R or early 22R, the combustion chambers in the later 22R help with swirl, but act as a dam to intake flow. I've decided to use the 20R I have, 47.5mm intake and 37.5mm exhaust, just do a little more work to the ports and work the 22RE lower mani to match(another story altogether). The work there will increase flow quite a bit without losing the needed charge velocity. A few little tricks to enhance swirl will help with keeping the fuel suspended in the intake charge and a more complete burn. Since I am keeping the valves I already have in the head anything more than a .470 lift will be overkill, just need a good aggressive opening ramp cam. Wonder if I can get a grind like I had in one of my VWs, hmmm.

As for a tri-Y header? I've had better low end numbers in the past with them, the shorty headers do pretty well, but the pulse tuning on the tri-Y seems to evacuate better for low end. My experience and opinion.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

 
 
 
 
 

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