Author Topic: new to me 1985 22re, rough idle, slight missing, Compression test help  (Read 968 times)

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qmikep

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Hi I was hoping to get some help with the 22re in the 1985 4runner I picked up recently.

 The truck was rough when I got it, bad exhaust leaks, rough  idle slight miss terrible oil leaks but it ran and seemed to have pretty decent power considering it is on 33x12.5 and has stock 4.10s still. After I bought it   I drove it back to checking the oil every so often as it had a BAD oil leak it used about a quart within 110 miles it was pouring out the back to the valve cover and rear main as best as I could tell.
 
I got it back home and tore into it, I replaced the timing chain,pcv valve, head gasket( and basically every other gasket and seal used OEM toyota gaskets) water pump, thermostat, all vacuum hoses and a bunch of other hoses as the were all cracked and the exhaust manifold as it was way warped out of spec. Checked the block and the head for warpage per the FSM with a precision straight edge and all was very well within spec. There was no sign of head gasket failure that I could see, the pistons are stamped 1.00 which I guess is the 2nd overbore size(so no more rebuilds on this block). The head looked as though it was recently replaced, cleaned up the valves and the seats looked good, did the old mineral spirts in the bowls for an hour or so  and there was no leakage.

After getting it all back together  the truck started without much fan fair, however the idle is rough with a  slight mis here n there at idle and throughout the rpm band and the exhaust smells bad very rich.

The truck was throwing code 11 so I checked the TPS and it passed the tests in the FSM it just needed adjusted and the code cleared up. I checked the distributor, coil, and igniter, all passed the tests in the FSM.  Started again first crank no problem, however idle is still rough I cannot get it to idle at one rpm its will jump around from 750-1000(  also replaced the o ring on the idle adjustment screw it isn't moving around) and  sometimes stall or act like it wants too.

Next I adjusted the timing 5 degrees with the plug jumper and when the jumper is removed 12 degrees. Now the engine sounds better, but still idling a bit rough and still smoky rich exhaust smell.  Also Tested the AFM and it checks out as per the FSM specs

Next I turned my attention to the cold start injector and timer, both passed the FSM tests. I pressurized the fuel system with the jumper installed and could not see any leakage from the cold start injector.After I did notice a fuel smell from the intake though.

I figure the next step is pull the injectors but I was hopping to get some advice first.

With that being said anyone have any suggestions on what to do to cure these issues? I am in phoenix so I'm gonna go take it to get smoged as a diagnostic tool in the next few day, figure that may be helpful.

Can you guys tell me the proper procedure for a compression test to? I have searched and not sure if I am doing it right,I have read to keep cranking till the gauge stops going up and other places say only 4-5 times. The gauge seems to keep going up so  the more I crank it. Not sure about the accuracy as I hav e seen bad reviews of the cheaper gauges ,which I am sure the one I have is as its a rental.

Thanks for any insight.



Gnarly4X

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Hi I was hoping to get some help with the 22re in the 1985 4runner I picked up recently.

 Thanks for any insight.



O2 sensor?

Valve lash?

compression check
pull plugs
remove FI fuse
pull coil wire
tie open throttle
crank until needle stops - 3 - 5 seconds.


Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Snowtoy

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Before pulling the injectors, replace the O2 with a plug and play one, not a cut and splice one.

Did you check the intake tube for cracks, the accordion section will develop cracks with age, causing unmetered air to cause the O2 to richen the system?

When you tested the sensors, where did they test in the factory acceptable range?  IME, I have found that when a sensor is testing near the ends of its acceptable range, and you can find no other cause of the issues, the sensor is the cause of the issue, and has just not yet failed outright.
'90 black X-cab mod'd 3.0, 33's/4.88's, rear ARB, custom bumpers, sliders, safari rack, etc.
'91 Blue X-cab 22re, 35's/5.29's,Truetrac front, ARB rear, dual cases, and custom Safari flatbed, bumper, interior.
The money pit '87 Supra resto/mod

qmikep [OP]

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O2 sensor?

Valve lash?

compression check
pull plugs
remove FI fuse
pull coil wire
tie open throttle
crank until needle stops - 3 - 5 seconds.


Gnarls.

Valve lash is good, o2 sensor is a new oem denso one.

Cool, I want to make sure if the needle keeps climbing keep cranking?


qmikep [OP]

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Before pulling the injectors, replace the O2 with a plug and play one, not a cut and splice one.

Did you check the intake tube for cracks, the accordion section will develop cracks with age, causing unmetered air to cause the O2 to richen the system?

When you tested the sensors, where did they test in the factory acceptable range?  IME, I have found that when a sensor is testing near the ends of its acceptable range, and you can find no other cause of the issues, the sensor is the cause of the issue, and has just not yet failed outright.

Forgot to ad,  O2 sensor is a new denso one, plug and play. Intake elbows look good. All sensors were right in the middle of the specified ranger except the TPS. Getting  the IDL-E2 with the .57 feeler gauge to not read infinity took a white but it reads .02 ohms which is  on the low end  of lower than  2.3k ohms which is the FSm spec.

Ive been going down the trouble shooting list in the ism for rough idle and from what I can tell at this point its either a fuel or compression issue,


Oh Forgot to ad pulled the plugs they all have  dry carbon fouling.

gnob

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Ok your tps needs to be set as such.
Idl - e1 continuity while blade closed.
Idl-e1 goes open as soon as you crack the blade.
hold this. . .

qmikep [OP]

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Ok your tps needs to be set as such.
Idl - e1 continuity while blade closed.
Idl-e1 goes open as soon as you crack the blade.

Sorry maybe I am mis understanding but, I did the tests as per the FSM and 4crawlers site. The TPS was within the perimeters of all the tests.

dumb question could a failed cat cause these  symptoms, pretty sure its never been changed   and I hear a very tinny rattle from it. I though it it was clogged it would cause a lean rather than rich condition though.

Gnarly4X

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Could be fuel pressure regulator. :dunno:

 You may want to get a fuel pressure gauge to test because the FPR can be really pricey!!

Here's the Fuel Pressure Kit I bought from LCE: 

https://www.lceperformance.com/Fuel-Pressure-Gauge-Kit-22RE-3VZ-EFI-p/2019128.htm

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,1985,pickup,2.4l+l4,1277300,fuel+&+air,fuel+injection+pressure+regulator,6124

I've had really good luck with Beck Arnley products.


https://www.lceperformance.com/OEM-Toyota-Fuel-Pressure-Regulator-22RE-RET-85-87-p/1035049.htm


Gnarls. :gap:
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 04:45:21 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

jmac80

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.....bet you're getting frustrated with this......all part of the fun....

bad injector = lean and not rich, so I doubt those are your problem.  I've also never seen much issues with the injectors for these, others may disagree.

make sure the cat is not blocked up as well......if so, just bust out the catalyst and run w/out.....it'll still pass smog from my experience.
1980 long bed; 20R; L52; 3" OME; 30-spline Marfields; Marlin high steer; PS; AC

Gnarly4X

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qmikep... did you do a compression check yet?

Gnarls. :dunno:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

sirdeuce

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Grounds? Vacuum leak? Old vac lines can surprise you. plastic nipples on Vacuum control devices can easily crack or break when jostled around causing leaks.  Greasy/oily grounds can cause continuity issues or even help bolts vibrate loose.  Check your ignition wires for leakage. In the dark, look for arcs between the wires and any grounds, or do it the hard way and lean against the vehicle, being sure to have a good ground to your body, and run your hands along the wires. When you get a shock you've found the leak( very bad suggestion, added for comedic relief).  You can isolate the ignition wires from each other and any grounds to see if that alleviates the misfire. Check distributor cap for carbon tracking. Just a few thing that commonly show up after being moved around.
Sure it'll fit........ Just needs a little brute finesse.

qmikep [OP]

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Sorry I haven't updated been really busy. Thanks for the replies I will address them after the update.

I did do a compression check.  Some folks say 3-5 seconds and some say to go till the need stops climbing. At only 3-5 seconds   each cylinder was only around 60-70 PSI(which to my understanding is barely enough to even fire let alone start on first crank and have enough power to drive around on 33's with stock gear). If I continued cranking more than 3-5 seconds,  the gauge needle keeps climbing.  SO what I did it use a timer and cranked for 7 seconds, then let the starter rest and repeat on each cylinder till the needle  stopped climbing . here is what I got:

                              Cranking time ( Seconds)
                    |   7    |     14     |     21    |    28   |
                 ______________________________
Cylinder # 1:     80        130       160          190
                2:   75          120        150         178
                3:    75         125         165        185
                4:   75          125        155         180

So I am not sure what this means, maybe the cheap rental compression gauge is just crappy are I have have a ring issue? When I had the head off I looked over pretty good.The head and  valves looked surprisingly new to me no scoring or anything nasty on them just a bunch of carbon that cleaned right up they looked new.I turned the head upside down and poured mineral spirits in the valve bowls after an hour there was zero leakage from any of the valves. I forgot to mention I replaced the valve seals while the head was off too.


After doing the compression test I started double checking the vacuum lines . It turned out I had the "P" and the "R" on the EGR vacuum modulator lines to the throttle body hooked up wrong. I corrected it, then started the engine set idle and timing. The timing is now good and there are no codes being thrown. However the idle still jumps around quite bit 750-1000.

I took it to get smogged(mostly for diagnostic reasons and actually  passed. Only number that wasn't in the mid range was NOX but it was still acceptable.

SO with that said it runs a ton better a lot quieter at idle  and is drivable ,but the exhaust still has a very  stinky, rich exhaust smell and the idle moves around from 750-1000.

I pulled the spark plugs and they no longer had any dry carbon fouling looked great almost new. Great I figured I was getting close

I pulled the valve cover to retorque the head bolts and re adjust the valves, noticed the oil in the top of the head was getting quite black already.

After resembling the head I noticed something odd. My injectors didn't look like the toyota injectors in all the online pictures. So I took the PN off them and looked it up. The truck has Bosch 0 280 155 887  4 hole injectors for a ford 2.0, they are a high ohm(14) injector that as best as I can tell flow at 176cc which is less that stock toyota (190 cc I believe). I then took apart the harness and tested the resistor box and made sure it was still operating properly and connected, it was.

I figure heck these injectors are obviously the issue as they are a high ohm 4 hole injector with an incorrect spray pattern and they flow less than stock.

I ordered a set of reman stock denso injectors and installed them. Note while I had the intake plenum off I noticed raw fuel sitting in the rear 2 intake manifold ports.

I got everything back together and triple checked all hoses and vacuum lines. Started the truck up and it didn't sound great worse than before. Checked idle and timing is still dead on. Checked for codes, there were none. I listened to the new injectors with a stethoscope and they are all clicking and sound the same. I restarted the truck and figured I try and take it for a drive. I could barely get it out of my driveway, once on the street it  had no power completely un drivable , I couldn't get it past 40 on flat ground or even maintain in 3rd gear. I pulled off plug wires on each cylinder and they are all firing.

I then pulled the spark plugs again and they no longer look good. Some look like they got too hot and now there is a bit of carbon fouling on #1.

Needles to say I am quite aggravated, spent 120 dollars and It won't run with the new oem injectors.

I then called Putney's Machine(really nice didn't try and sell me anything) and spoke with him, we ran through the diagnostics I had done so far. He said at this point he wasn't sure, he would guess that maybe the ECU or the AFM had been messed with to run the high ohm ford injectors.

So at this point, My options seem to be, Engine compression isn't right, ECU isn't right, AFM isn't right or the wiring between the three. I suck at electrical so I am at a loss.

To add insult to injury I went and pulled the new injectors out to put the bosch ford ones back in so I could at least drive the thing  and I broke the nose off the idle air control  valve.

If any of you guess have suggestions or experience with Testing the ECU or AFM  please let me know, the AFM tests out per the FSM but I guess the adjustments people make to the spring tension won't change that .

Really appreciate any insight on this. I need this truck to be solid reliable before the end of the month. If i gotta replace the ECU, AFM heck even the engine that sucks but I just don't have the time right now for a rebuild, its just gotta run.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 09:29:36 AM by qmikep »

qmikep [OP]

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qmikep... did you do a compression check yet?

Gnarls. :dunno:

Yep see post 11

qmikep [OP]

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Grounds? Vacuum leak? Old vac lines can surprise you. plastic nipples on Vacuum control devices can easily crack or break when jostled around causing leaks.  Greasy/oily grounds can cause continuity issues or even help bolts vibrate loose.  Check your ignition wires for leakage. In the dark, look for arcs between the wires and any grounds, or do it the hard way and lean against the vehicle, being sure to have a good ground to your body, and run your hands along the wires. When you get a shock you've found the leak( very bad suggestion, added for comedic relief).  You can isolate the ignition wires from each other and any grounds to see if that alleviates the misfire. Check distributor cap for carbon tracking. Just a few thing that commonly show up after being moved around.

Gorunds are good, replaced everything that was suspect. All vacuum lines have been replaced with silicone hose and hose clamps on everything.  Plug wires are new NGK, Distributer ,Coil and igniter pass all tests in the FSM.

Gnarly4X

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Geeeezzzzz!.... no luck at all. :sad2:

Sorry to read about your FUBAR'D engine.  :smack:

Gnarls. :dunno:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

qmikep [OP]

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Oh And somehow even though I have been hand threading in the spark plugs till snug I just stripped the threads for one. I hate aluminum.

Anyone have suggestions on where to order a long block and can get it too me within 2 weeks?

qmikep [OP]

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Any ideas what someone would typically modify electric wise to run a high ohm 4 hole injector in one of these trucks?

Im debating replacing the ECU and AFM and pulling all the tape off the harness again and making sure everything is intact/not modified in any way. Not sure why else a fresh set of factory injectors(which flow more than the ford ones the PO put in it)  would run like crap when everything else is dead on.

Gnarly4X

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Just a thought....Look VERY carefully at the metal bifricated contacts inside the injector connectors.  I had one that was broken when I rebuilt my 22RE.

Gnarls.  :dunno:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

 
 
 
 
 

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