Author Topic: This forum is awesome, please help!  (Read 1251 times)

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brodyman0508

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This forum is awesome, please help!
« on: Mar 19, 2019, 09:27:11 PM »
I understand this is a 4wd forum and Ive owned 3 Toyota pickups to this point.. 1 of which was an 88 with 3.slow with 4.88s and 36 Iroks.. loved that truck! The truck i have a question about is a 92 2wd with the 22re that i bought to drive back and forth to work (70 miles) round trip. This forum has more info than any of the other that Ive searched on and i was hoping youd lend an ear to needy truck nerd.. Ive got $1500ish put back to do work on the truck, its freshly rebuilt about 6 months ago and Im planning a tune up ( plugs, wires, distributor) i want to use the rest and buy the LCE EFI performance package with the EFI Pro cam, long tube header, o/s throttle body and LCE intake. Has anyone bought this specific package, do you recommend it and if not whats the best options to pep it up.. Im not looking to swap the motor, it has the 5-speed and what gear ratio would you pair with this combo or similar combo to give it more take off on the line.. its primarily just to drive back and forth to work but i want it to be fun to drive to too while being mildly responsible concerning MPGs.. i know thats an earful but i cant wait to hear your advice! Thanks a ton!


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emsvitil

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #1 on: Mar 19, 2019, 09:38:55 PM »
I wouldn't bother with anything on the engine.

Just get a less restrictive exhaust (2.25") and muffler after the cat.


With a 2wd,   I'd go for handling improvements.    And if needed high performance brake pads.
Ed
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86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

brodyman0508 [OP]

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This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #2 on: Mar 19, 2019, 10:59:41 PM »
Not even a header or cam? Its been lowered 4 all around and Ive alway heard a header would open it up more than an intake or exhaust.. i do plan on adding 2 1/4 piping through a hi/flow or no cat and Magnaflow, some new shocks, sway bar and i want to do something for the rear end to get it off the line quicker..


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H8PVMNT

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #3 on: Mar 20, 2019, 03:47:49 AM »
A header and slightly bigger exhaust wouldn't hurt anything.  Expect a small gain from it but not huge.  A nice cam is fun but you can only do so much cam with the stock EFI.  On the cam I would call 22rePerformance.  I have his 282 cam in a carb 20r and it's great.  Jim knows his stuff.  An adjustable cam gear is a nice tuning trick I have tried, even with the stock cam.

A good tune up and valve adjustment is a worth while investment.

I was going to set up a 2WD with a 4.10 geared diff from a 4WD.  This particular one had the 8" rear end with the same spline axles so it would drop right in. This would give you more pick up off the line.  Slightly smaller diameter tires would accomplish the same effect.
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Snowtoy

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #4 on: Mar 20, 2019, 01:30:22 PM »
I was going to set up a 2WD with a 4.10 geared diff from a 4WD.  This particular one had the 8" rear end with the same spline axles so it would drop right in. This would give you more pick up off the line.  Slightly smaller diameter tires would accomplish the same effect.

I took an '85 2wd in partial trade that had 4.10's, the owner had it regeared due to the heavy trailer he hauled for work.  With 4.10's and aggressive driving it would chirp the tires in 3rd, of course highway speed was hurt a little, but if you didn't spend long periods above 65mph, it wasn't too bad.

While the upgrades you are considering will help some, there isn't a lot of untapped HP in the 22re, which is why no one ever states any expected HP gains.  If it were I, I would do intake and exhaust, and possible a gear change depending on what gears you have now, and how fast you travel the 70 miles to work.

Might find this info helpful for gear ratios
https://toyotaminis.com/forum/threads/toyota-2wd-rear-axle-gearing-and-transmission-info.3313/

and this calculator for speed in each gear at a certain rpm
http://www.tremec.com/calculadora.php
better rpm calculator
https://www.crawlpedia.com/rpm_gear_calculator.htm
« Last Edit: Mar 25, 2019, 09:04:11 PM by Snowtoy »
'90 black X-cab mod'd 3.0, 33's/4.88's, rear ARB, custom bumpers, sliders, safari rack, etc.
'91 Blue X-cab 22re, 35's/5.29's,Truetrac front, ARB rear, dual cases, and custom Safari flatbed, bumper, interior.
The money pit '87 Supra resto/mod

emsvitil

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #5 on: Mar 20, 2019, 02:34:46 PM »
BTW, the stock exhaust manifold is a mini Tri-Y header.
Ed
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brodyman0508 [OP]

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #6 on: Mar 20, 2019, 09:06:25 PM »
I took an '85 2wd in partial trade that had 4.10's, the owner had it regeared due to the heavy trailer he hauled for work.  With 4.10's and aggressive driving it would chirp the tires in 3rd, of course highway speed was hurt a little, but if you didn't spend long periods above 65mph, it wasn't too bad.

While the upgrades you are considering will help some, there isn't a lot of untapped HP in the 22re, which is why no one ever states any expected HP gains.  If it were I, I would do intake and exhaust, and possible a gear change depending on what gears you have now, and how fast you travel the 70 miles to work.

Might find this info helpful for gear ratios
https://toyotaminis.com/forum/threads/toyota-2wd-rear-axle-gearing-and-transmission-info.3313/

and this calculator for speed in each gear at a certain rpm
http://www.tremec.com/calculadora.php


I never intended for it to be a race truck or anything.. just more fun to drive.. i bought it for the gas mileage and its not great so i might as well make it go faster.. the route to work is 15 miles 2 lane at 55mph, 5 miles stop and go through a town, 15 more miles of 4 lane at 65-70... with the gearing it has now it will chirp second and Ive had it up to 110 going downhill just to see if it could.. low end/take off torque is more what Im concerned with getting.. i talked with a mechanic today and he said freeing up the intake/exhaust, adding headers, a cam and an adjustable cam gear would take you to about the limits of a stock block, stock ECU 22re horsepower wise.. and all i really want is more jump off the start.. its lowered with 195/55/16 tires so the tire diameter is already smaller.. the truck is literally in perfect condition.. just got repainted and new front and rear bumpers, super clean.. i plan on driving it a while back and forth to work and want to make sure the parts Im looking at are gonna help me achieve what i want.. i understand its not a 2JZ or a 5.3 like my last truck had but its fun to drive and Id like to make it more fun.. thanks for all the help guys.. the only other issue would be the gearing. Im assuming with it being 2wd it has the 7.5 rear end.. suggestions on re gearing that? Or swap to a 8?


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H8PVMNT

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #7 on: Mar 21, 2019, 03:45:34 AM »
Most 2WD rear ends I've seen have been the 8".  You can identify what you have on your vin tag with these axle codes...

http://www.off-road.com/trucks-4x4/tech/toyota-differential-identification-18588.html
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Gnarly4X

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #8 on: Mar 21, 2019, 03:01:58 PM »
BTW, the stock exhaust manifold is a mini Tri-Y header.

hmmmmmm...... not quite!  :shake:

Gnarls.  :gap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #9 on: Mar 21, 2019, 08:35:00 PM »
... its freshly rebuilt about 6 months ago

Hey brodyman0508...

Can you describe what exactly was done to your "freshly rebuilt" engine?

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

brodyman0508 [OP]

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #10 on: Mar 22, 2019, 08:55:21 PM »
Hey brodyman0508...

Can you describe what exactly was done to your "freshly rebuilt" engine?

Gnarls.

Valve adjustment, new head gasket, timing chain, something with the head was done and radiator flush.. also the front end was freshened up, new bushings and such.. it was all done in October i think.. it got a new paint job, new wheels and tires at the same time.. an older man had all the work done


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Gnarly4X

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #11 on: Mar 23, 2019, 07:01:49 AM »
With small 24.4 diameter tires youre running, you probably dont need to change any diff gears.

If you are looking for more torque from off-idle to your 60 to 70 MPH driving range you can get a noticeable boost with a Doug Thorley header and 2 exhaust and a turbo muffler.

If you go too large on your exhaust tubing, you can lose some lower RPM torque.

As emsvitil was intimating, the stock exhaust manifold is actually a good design.  And, as I remember Ted at engnblder said it produces excellent low end torque.  The stock manifold with 2 exhaust will increase the lower RPM torque numbers.

The DT header and 2.25 exhaust will increase the torque numbers above 2500 RPMs, but may slightly lower the torque numbers from off-idle to about 2500 RPMs.

If I were you, Id install a Doug Thorley header and 2 exhaust with a turbo muffler.

For a 22RE, I would not spend money on an adjustable cam gear, larger throttle body or LCEs EFI performance package. 

After you install a header and exhaust, if you wanted to try an aftermarket cam, there are several that have a variety of different opinions on their performance.  For your 22RE and driving, my first choice would be the CompCam 252S.  My 2nd choice would be one of Scheiders EFI cams.  Id love to try one in my 22RE.  I believe the cam profiles that work really well in a 22R do not do as well in the 22REs. just my opinion.  As H8PVMNT said, Jim at 22RE Performance probably has a good reground profile for a 22RE.

I  believe a good low-end torquey cam, with limited overlap will be very noticeable in a 22RE with a DT header an opened exhaust system.

I would install wire core spark plug wires, a set of iridium spark plugs, and a quality rotor and cap.  On the factory 22 cam, I would adjust the valve lash to a slightly snug 8/12. 

I would run 10w-30 Mobil 1 motor oil, and Mobil 1 synthetic or Redline MTL gear lube in the tranny.

With a torquey cam, DT header and opened exhaust, I think you can gain 8 to 10 HP and 6 to 10 lbs of torque out of healthy - WELL TUNED - stock 22RE, which will be a very noticeable increase in throttle response - especially between 2000 and 3500 RPMs.

Gnarls.  :blah:  - That's just my opinion - it may be worthless, useless, and definitely pomp 'n stink!  :gap:



« Last Edit: Mar 23, 2019, 07:33:46 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #12 on: Mar 24, 2019, 06:01:34 AM »
I couldn't agree more. Don't waste your money trying to make a 22RE faster. It's as good as it's going to get in stock form. I've throw countless dollars into most of the things you mention doing and never noticed any appreciable gains, just headaches. The 22RE ECU has no ability to learn, it's 80s logic chip electronics with fixed operation. It is what it is. It's actually perfectly suited for a 2wd pickup. That's my advice

Although I tend to somewhat agree with liveoak that the 22RE ECU has limitations and I believe it is programmed to maintain a specific range of engine systems variables.  As an example a bigger cam profile in a stock 22R will work very well, but the same cam in a stock 22RE will not because the ECU wants to control or modulate the range of changes it senses caused by an actual enhancement in flow like increased cam overlap.

There is definitely a history of many early Toyota owners modifying the 22s in an effort to increase power.  For many, a big part of owning an early Toyota is the fun of getting to modify it and build it the way you want.

In my experience, now having owned 2 1986 22REs and 1 1985 22R, small increases in torque from stock are definitely noticeable especially at freeway speeds and around 3,000 RPMs.

The modifications or enhancements to my 22R were VERY noticeable header, exhaust, and my gnarly air filter mod.  WHY?  Taking a stock 3,200 pound truck, with a 5-speed tranny, stock 22R 96 HP engine to just 8 to 10 HP and 5 or 10 lbs of torque produced a VERY noticeable increase in throttle response.

The exhaust mods to my first 22RE was noticeable, but not as much as the same exhaust modifications to my 22R.

The engine TUNE on these engines is critical to get the peak power out of them.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Snowtoy

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #13 on: Mar 24, 2019, 01:54:20 PM »

I never intended for it to be a race truck or anything.. just more fun to drive.. i bought it for the gas mileage and its not great so i might as well make it go faster.

What kind of mpg's are you getting now?  You should be in the mid to upper 20's.  If not at least id 20's, I would start with a complete tune-up and inspection.

While fun, the 4.10's would be a bit to live with on long highway stretches, would either go one gear set taller than what you have now if possible, or run a size smaller tire.
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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #14 on: Mar 24, 2019, 04:14:09 PM »
What kind of mpg's are you getting now?  You should be in the mid to upper 20's.  If not at least id 20's, I would start with a complete tune-up and inspection.

While fun, the 4.10's would be a bit to live with on long highway stretches, would either go one gear set taller than what you have now if possible, or run a size smaller tire.

Hey Snowtoy....

Perhaps my calculations or understanding is off.... ??  :disturbed:

What's wrong with the ring & pinion ratio of 4.10  :dunno:

With his 24.5" diameter tires, if this is a 5-speed the RPM range would be just about perfect for his driving description.  Excellent for gas mileage and still right in the peak torque range.  :thumbs:

2474 RPMs at 55 MPH
2699 RPMs at 60 MPH
2924 RPMs at 65 MPH
3149 RPMs at 70 MPH

Gnarls.  :inthedark:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Snowtoy

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #15 on: Mar 25, 2019, 08:58:39 PM »
Your #'s are wrong, having run 4.10's with the stock 195/75/14's, I can tell you they are off by about 6-700rpms.
'90 black X-cab mod'd 3.0, 33's/4.88's, rear ARB, custom bumpers, sliders, safari rack, etc.
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The money pit '87 Supra resto/mod

Gnarly4X

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #16 on: Mar 26, 2019, 09:02:36 AM »
Your #'s are wrong, having run 4.10's with the stock 195/75/14's, I can tell you they are off by about 6-700rpms.

"195/55/16 tires"

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Snowtoy

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #17 on: Mar 26, 2019, 11:09:59 AM »
"195/55/16 tires"

Gnarls.

That isn't stock size, close enough, but your numbers are still wrong, your calculator must be wrong.
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The money pit '87 Supra resto/mod

Plainview

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #18 on: Mar 26, 2019, 04:14:13 PM »
hmmmmmm...... not quite!  :shake:

Gnarls.  :gap:

Well, some are.  Depends on which manifold you have.

At least, I'm speaking for 1984.  Maybe they changed things in later years.  But, in '84 there were two different manifolds.  One was for trucks with 48 state emissions (no AIR pump) and one was for California emissions (with AIR pump).  The 48 state manifold has separate pathways for each cylinder that join right at the flange where the manifold connects to the intermediate pipes.  That is basically a tri-Y header though the primary pipe length is quite short.  The Cali. manifold is just an open chamber that all 4 cylinders dump into.  I know this because I have one of each, from my two trucks.

What style is the 22RE that the OP has?  In looking at pictures of the Dorman replacement manifold available for '85-'95 22RE, it sure looks like the separated/tri-y style.
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emsvitil

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #19 on: Mar 26, 2019, 07:50:46 PM »
My 86 22RE California exhaust manifold is a mini tri-y.

The 86 has the "2" part of the 4-2-1 very short.    Earlier models (I think 85 and earlier) the "2" part was long.
Ed
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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #20 on: Mar 26, 2019, 08:56:21 PM »
What kind of mpg's are you getting now?  You should be in the mid to upper 20's.  If not at least id 20's, I would start with a complete tune-up and inspection.

While fun, the 4.10's would be a bit to live with on long highway stretches, would either go one gear set taller than what you have now if possible, or run a size smaller tire.

Snowtoy....

What calculator are you using?

That isn't stock size, close enough, but your numbers are still wrong, your calculator must be wrong.

https://www.discounttire.com/learn/tire-size-calculator


He posted tire size:  195x55x16  = 24.44 diameter


He posted 55 to 70 MPH

Heres a calculator that shows the formula:

https://www.crawlpedia.com/rpm_gear_calculator.htm


Assuming his stated tire size, and assuming his transmission is a 5-speed, it should have a 5th gear ratio of .850 to 1.

Based on that:

55 MPH = 2535 RPMs
60 MPH = 2875 RPMs
65 MPH = 3114 RPMs
70 MPH = 3354 RPMs

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #21 on: Mar 26, 2019, 09:11:27 PM »
My 86 22RE California exhaust manifold is a mini tri-y.

The 86 has the "2" part of the 4-2-1 very short.    Earlier models (I think 85 and earlier) the "2" part was long.

Tri-Y header is designed to match the synchronization of the engine firing order, thereby maximizing exhaust scavenging.

I'll take a closer look at the stock manifold off my 1986 22RE.... but it does have tri-y look.  :gap:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #22 on: Mar 27, 2019, 02:29:31 PM »
He posted tire size:  195x55x16  = 24.44 diameter


He posted 55 to 70 MPH

Based on that:

55 MPH = 2535 RPMs
60 MPH = 2875 RPMs
65 MPH = 3114 RPMs
70 MPH = 3354 RPMs

Gnarls.

My bad on the tires, missed his post about what he is running. 

Your new numbers using crawlpedia are better, but still off compared to what I experienced in the real world with an '85 2wd w/stock 195/75/14's(25.68" tire).  With that set-up, at 70mph the rpm's were just over 3500 on the stock tach, w/about the same amount of noise level as one would expect from a 22r running at 3500rpm's, and at 60mph they were just under 3k.
'90 black X-cab mod'd 3.0, 33's/4.88's, rear ARB, custom bumpers, sliders, safari rack, etc.
'91 Blue X-cab 22re, 35's/5.29's,Truetrac front, ARB rear, dual cases, and custom Safari flatbed, bumper, interior.
The money pit '87 Supra resto/mod

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Re: This forum is awesome, please help!
« Reply #23 on: Mar 27, 2019, 07:55:06 PM »
My bad on the tires, missed his post about what he is running. 

Your new numbers using crawlpedia are better, but still off compared to what I experienced in the real world with an '85 2wd w/stock 195/75/14's(25.68" tire).  With that set-up, at 70mph the rpm's were just over 3500 on the stock tach, w/about the same amount of noise level as one would expect from a 22r running at 3500rpm's, and at 60mph they were just under 3k.

I agree that at 70 MPH I'd want to be taching about 2900 to 3000 RPMs 5th gear.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR