Author Topic: new marlin built w56b issue  (Read 1120 times)

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keycw

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new marlin built w56b issue
« on: Mar 16, 2019, 10:10:40 AM »
hey guys. long time member of yotatech and mud but never posted here before.  i just finished installing a marlin built w56b this weekend in my 87 runner with 22re.  i did new bearing, flywheel, marlin hd clutch, and clutch hydraulics.  filled initially with gl5 because i couldnt find any gl4.  first 10 miles went without a hiccup.  almost in my driveway and she popped out of 2nd.  decided to make some laps around the neighborhood and just about every time i shifted either up or down into second it would pop out.  i drained the gl5 and found some gl4 for it.  still popping out of second, but not other gears.  tried calling marlin all day yesterday but never could get through to anyone.  im not a professional mechanic by trade but im pretty good at garage wrenching.  any advice or help would be really appreciated.   cheers. 
87 runner 22re 5sp restomoding

18 power waggy

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #1 on: Mar 16, 2019, 12:30:06 PM »
Call them on Monday, they are closed on Friday's!!
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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #2 on: Mar 16, 2019, 12:33:32 PM »
Call them on Monday, they are closed on Friday's!!


New hours 730-4 mon thru friday...
Even the most primitive society, has an intimate respect for the insane.

keycw [OP]

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #3 on: Mar 16, 2019, 12:52:20 PM »
New hours 730-4 mon thru friday...

Yeah they started opening on fridays now but it didn’t do me any good.  I tried getting through all day and never did get to speak with someone.  I emailed them but no response yet.  I will try getting through to someone Monday again.  Everything I can tell is pointing to the second gear synchro.  I am running the Napa brand 80-90 oil rates for gl4 and gl5, the clutch is working fine, all other gears shift into and hold fine.  Only second.  It drives fine in second but will come out if I don’t hold the shifter in place.  I really don’t want to think that a marlin built tranny with 9 miles on it had a faulty synchro so I’m gaping to find a solution. 
87 runner 22re 5sp restomoding

18 power waggy

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #4 on: Mar 16, 2019, 04:17:06 PM »
I would try next week. I'm sure once you get through, they will take care of you... :yesnod:
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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #5 on: Mar 17, 2019, 08:07:02 AM »
Hmmm.... I can't imagine it's the synchro gears.  The tranny will not know the difference between GL4 or GL5... just my opinion.

I'd guess its a linkage adjustment issue, but probably will require opening up the case.

I'd want to know who built the transmission, and what the final verdict is for the cause.

Please let us know what you discover.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

keycw [OP]

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #6 on: Mar 17, 2019, 08:49:00 AM »
Hmmm.... I can't imagine it's the synchro gears.  The tranny will not know the difference between GL4 or GL5... just my opinion.

I'd guess its a linkage adjustment issue, but probably will require opening up the case.

I'd want to know who built the transmission, and what the final verdict is for the cause.

Please let us know what you discover.

Gnarls.


I really want to agree with you.  As for linkage, there’s little to nothing I can do.  I can’t open the case because that would break the paint marks and void my warranty.  I also don’t think gl4 or gl5 would cause this issue.  To my knowledge all it would really do it make for some hard shifting.  Will log in tomorrow and tell y’all what marlin says.
87 runner 22re 5sp restomoding

18 power waggy

Crawlerbrennan2

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #7 on: Mar 17, 2019, 11:58:15 PM »
Can't you leave a voice mail with the new phone system you should have that option

Crawlerbrennan2

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #8 on: Mar 17, 2019, 11:59:23 PM »
Also I don't think fluid would have any difference in a pop out

keycw [OP]

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #9 on: Mar 18, 2019, 06:00:21 AM »
read through as many forum threads as I could find this weekend and drove the hell out of the truck.  the issue is definitely only in 2nd gear.  if I hold it in 2nd its fine, obviously.  it runs quiet and doesn't have any other issues.  I tried to pinpoint exactly what makes it pop out of second, I thought maybe it was jarring motions at first but it will do it on a smooth deceleration as well.  I found a few guys that said their tcase mount was causing theirs to pop out.  mine is brand new, but it is a cheap offbrand from rockauto.  I may invest in the marlin HD today if they recommend it. 

87 runner 22re 5sp restomoding

18 power waggy

liveoak

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #10 on: Mar 18, 2019, 06:44:18 AM »
good luck today, I hope you come back saying you got ahold of them and they are taking care of it. If you can't get ahold of them you could try messaging TRevv (send PM) , he works there
https://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?action=profile;u=24806
« Last Edit: Mar 18, 2019, 06:55:07 AM by liveoak »
my 3rz swap. http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=97722.0

Let me start off with a basket of chips

keycw [OP]

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #11 on: Mar 18, 2019, 08:38:17 AM »
spoke with marlin this morning.  their decision is that its a faulty transmission.  at the least I have to say im disappointed.  they want me to pull my transmission back off and use the box it came in to send it back, which means delaying sending in my core which means not getting back my core charge for a while.  basically they said it the issue is only effecting 2nd gear then its an internal issue, which means only they can mess with it. 
87 runner 22re 5sp restomoding

18 power waggy

Gnarly4X

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #12 on: Mar 18, 2019, 11:28:42 AM »
Bummer on the transmission and having to pull it.  :thumbdown:

People are human.  Marlin is as honest and knowledgeable as anyone I know in the 4-wheel drive community or suppliers! :thumbs:


Gnarls.  :greengrin:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

keycw [OP]

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #13 on: Mar 18, 2019, 11:33:45 AM »
Bummer on the transmission and having to pull it.  :thumbdown:

People are human.  Marlin is as honest and knowledgeable as anyone I know in the 4-wheel drive community or suppliers! :thumbs:


Gnarls.  :greengrin:

absolutely.  this is exactly why I bought from them, because I knew if I had an issue that they would take care of it.  I was hoping for more than 9 miles before said issue but hey haha.  guess ill start pulling drive shafts tonight. 
87 runner 22re 5sp restomoding

18 power waggy

Gnarly4X

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #14 on: Mar 18, 2019, 01:53:02 PM »
absolutely.  this is exactly why I bought from them, because I knew if I had an issue that they would take care of it.  I was hoping for more than 9 miles before said issue but hey haha.  guess ill start pulling drive shafts tonight. 

Dropping a tranny is almost as painful as pulling an engine for me!!  I'd rather wrestle a grizzly bear!!  :yikes:

Gnarls.  :twocents:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #15 on: Mar 18, 2019, 02:37:57 PM »
I will be very interested to find out exactly what went wrong.
I am going to guess shift collar reversed.  :_oops:
Just a guess.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

keycw [OP]

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #16 on: Mar 18, 2019, 03:04:59 PM »
Dropping a tranny is almost as painful as pulling an engine for me!!  I'd rather wrestle a grizzly bear!!  :yikes:

Gnarls.  :twocents:

you and me both. 
87 runner 22re 5sp restomoding

18 power waggy

keycw [OP]

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #17 on: Mar 18, 2019, 03:06:08 PM »
I will be very interested to find out exactly what went wrong.
I am going to guess shift collar reversed.  :_oops:
Just a guess.

your guess is better than mine.  ive done alot to these trucks but ive never torn down a tranny. 
87 runner 22re 5sp restomoding

18 power waggy

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #18 on: Mar 18, 2019, 03:08:42 PM »
your guess is better than mine.  ive done alot to these trucks but ive never torn down a tranny.
Please make sure you get a clear explanation to share with us. Maybe We can all learn something.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

keycw [OP]

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #19 on: Mar 18, 2019, 05:51:38 PM »
Please make sure you get a clear explanation to share with us. Maybe We can all learn something.

ill be posting definitive results on here and yotatech.  i pulled the starter, slave, swaybar, and all but the top two bellhousing bolts before i called it quits for the night.  id like to have it pulled by wednesday.  they did tell me on the phone that they would put my tranny as a priority when it arrived..so i guess thats cool. 
87 runner 22re 5sp restomoding

18 power waggy

keycw [OP]

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heard from marlin
« Reply #20 on: Apr 02, 2019, 11:40:22 AM »
I decided to check the tracking on my transmission shipping because I had not heard from marlin and it had been long enough since I shipped it.  turns out it had arrived at their shop last week.  tried calling yesterday couldn't get through for a while so I emailed them, I asked if they did receive my transmission, when they expected to have it done, and to please notify me of what the issue is, and let me know when they would ship it back.  I got an email today at noon saying they al received it, and had already repaired it, and it was shipping out tomorrow, but no word on an issue.  I started calling again and decided to just wait until someone could get to my call.  I eventually got through and was able to talk to trevor, who informed me that they tore into and and couldn't find anything wrong with it...  so they replaced the fork and gear and associated components for 2nd gear.  I can only hope that this fixes the issue.  ill post again once I get it back and installed. 
87 runner 22re 5sp restomoding

18 power waggy

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #21 on: Apr 02, 2019, 12:25:41 PM »
Thank you for the update. FYI Trevv is a good man, You can trust him 100%.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Gnarly4X

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #22 on: Apr 02, 2019, 08:48:45 PM »
If they (MC knows more about the inside of that transmission than anyone on the planet) could not find anything wrong with it, could the problem be with something OTHER than the transmission?  :dunno:

Gnarls. :inthedark:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

keycw [OP]

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #23 on: Apr 03, 2019, 06:09:39 AM »
trust me, not that i think im a crappy mechanic but my first thoughts were definitely "ok what did I mess up".  but told me that the issue could only be inside the transmission.  so I don't know what to think.  the issue only pertains to second gear.  their tech did say he saw minor galling but that could have just been from second slipping out when I was trouble shooting.  if the clutch works, which is does, and all other gears work fine, im at a loss.  honestly they sounded as frustrated as I did on the phone that they couldn't find an issue.  like I said, they went ahead and replaced everything anyways just to be sure so hopefully the issue isn't there when I get it back.   
87 runner 22re 5sp restomoding

18 power waggy

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #24 on: Apr 03, 2019, 07:33:58 AM »
trust me, not that i think im a crappy mechanic but my first thoughts were definitely "ok what did I mess up".  but told me that the issue could only be inside the transmission.  so I don't know what to think.  the issue only pertains to second gear.  their tech did say he saw minor galling but that could have just been from second slipping out when I was trouble shooting.  if the clutch works, which is does, and all other gears work fine, im at a loss.  honestly they sounded as frustrated as I did on the phone that they couldn't find an issue.  like I said, they went ahead and replaced everything anyways just to be sure so hopefully the issue isn't there when I get it back.
I'm sure it will work perfectly when You get it back.  :crossed:
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

keycw [OP]

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #25 on: Apr 11, 2019, 06:28:32 AM »
just following up with this issue because someone down the road may have this issue and want to see what happened, unfortunately I have no solid answer.  marlin found no issue with the transmission, I got It back yesterday and finished the install last night.  took it for a drive.  popped out of second after leaving the driveway.  after a few laps around my neighborhood the issue went away.  I only changed ONE thing and that's the fluid type.  I was initially using Napa brand gl5-gl5 rated gear oil and that's when the problem started.  I drained and filled with a mobile gearoil that said it was rated at gl4-gl5 and no change.  after the reinstall I filled with redline mt90.  after it had circulated the transmission for a few mins the problem magically resolved.  im not saying it was the oil..but im not saying it wasn't.  it also shifts noticeably smoother.  thanks for the tips.  i did drive to work today so thats a plus.  cheers  :beerchug:



« Last Edit: Apr 11, 2019, 06:37:13 AM by keycw »
87 runner 22re 5sp restomoding

18 power waggy

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #26 on: Apr 12, 2019, 03:22:30 PM »
I just hate when We get the no strait answer repairs. I appreciate the follow up. I would bet a lot of money that it definitely was not the oil in the trans.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Gnarly4X

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #27 on: Apr 14, 2019, 05:34:02 AM »
I just hate when We get the no strait answer repairs. I appreciate the follow up. I would bet a lot of money that it definitely was not the oil in the trans.

I agree.  Anything is possible, but the differences in your gear lubes should NOT cause your issue (pretending I'm an expert in Toyota manual transmissions  :laugh: ).

The viscosity or additive formula should have nothing to do with popping out of gear.

I am surprised that Marlin could not have explained why or what would cause 2nd to pop out of gear?  If they don’t know, probably no one knows.  :yikes:

The GL-4 vs GL-5 topic has always been a common topic for discussion of forums, and appears to be somewhat misunderstood.  I don't believe my tranny will know the difference between GL-4 and GL-5, but it definitely knows the difference between conventional and synthethic.  :eye:

My Toyota FSM recommends API GL-4 or GL-5, Viscosity SAE 75W-90 or 80W-90.

Redline’s site recommends the MT-90 GL4.  :yesnod:

When my newly rebuilt W56 5-speed was a little notchy shifting, I called Redline and spoke to their Tech.  The Tech recommended MTL, which is GL-4 75W-80.  It made a huge difference in shifting… way smoother and almost completely eliminated the notchy shifts between 1st and 2nd.  :driving:

It is interesting that the Redline site selection “Product for my vehicle” does NOT recommend MTL for my 1986 W56 5- speed?  :dunno:

For this last tranny oil change I switched from Valvoline 75W-90 conventional to Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90.  The shifts were noticeably smoother.  :biggthumpup:

Redline is a little more expensive and not as readily available as Mobil 1, which is always off-the-shelf.  :thumbs:

If I lived in a cold climate, I’d be running MTL or Mobil 1 synthetic in my tranny, t-case, and diffs.  :thumbs:

I’d be running Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil.  :thumbs:

Gnarls.  :gap:




« Last Edit: Apr 14, 2019, 05:50:54 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

keycw [OP]

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #28 on: Apr 15, 2019, 05:55:33 AM »
I just hate when We get the no strait answer repairs. I appreciate the follow up. I would bet a lot of money that it definitely was not the oil in the trans.

I completely agree.  I was actually pretty upset when I initially spoke with marlin and they said "we don't know why its popping out of gear"... and I waited several days to make my post on here because I didn't want to be a keyboard warrior, especially when my knowledge of transmission is next to nothing.  I small part of me thought that maybe they did find something but didn't want to tell me out of fear.  who knows.  i have always been a skeptic when it comes to oils and fluids.  until recently i didn't give a dang what went into a tranny as long as it was oil.  i put a solid 150 miles on the transmission this weekend.  not a single hiccup.  nice and quiet, smooth shifts, everything you would expect from a marlin rebuild.  now, there is one thing i failed to mention because i didn't think much of it but on the initial test drive after getting the transmission back, i said it popped out of second. yes, it did, once, and the next time i downshifted there was a "thud" when getting into second gear, not loud but i could feel it in the driveline.  that was the moment the transmission started shifting normally.  i know its not much help, but i find that these details in other threads can help people out in the future.  i havnt had a chance to call marlin back but i do plan to let them know.  honestly i surprised they havnt followed up with me.. seeing as how i bet they don't get many brand new trannys back for repair. 
87 runner 22re 5sp restomoding

18 power waggy

Gnarly4X

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Re: new marlin built w56b issue
« Reply #29 on: Apr 15, 2019, 09:33:29 AM »
The number of "mystery problems" and "mystery fixes" could fill up a web forum in any automotive web site.  :yesnod:

I love happy endings! :beerchug:

Gnarls.  :gap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

 
 
 
 
 

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Last post Sep 04, 2011, 08:21:50 PM
by Toyospearo