Author Topic: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help  (Read 2278 times)

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Jason E.

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**Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« on: Jan 12, 2019, 09:14:32 PM »
First of all its been a while. How are Y'all!  :beerchug:

Been on my 4runner build for a while and back now with a fresh engine build. Old RE was hacked together by the PO but banged rev limiter and pulled Full widths and 37s to a good 76mph down a flat freeway all day long. Buuuuut a few beers later and some bad advise from friends we developed piston slap and I decided to build it.

A little more back ground. I completely built this motor. Not just re ringed or bought a long block. I currently work for a machine shop in northern California and build it in hopes to gain from 92hp to at least 3 figures at my shop. So with that said im having issues with timing and driving.

Build Specs

Originally a 1993 22re with complete late model intake and wiring in a second Gen Runner.

Bored .30 over

Itm Pistons ( Stock over bore )

Decked and Line honed

.026" of piston protrusion out of block

Cylinder head is .047" under Minimum spec ( AERA Engine Builders Online Minimum Spec )

MLS Itm head gasket ( Stock ) .040" crushed

Ported and Polished Head

Gasket matched and opened Upper and Lower Intake Manifold

.447 Lift Cam & .50 duration ( Only spec I remember at the moment )

Dual Valve Springs

2mm over bore Stainless Steel Swirl Cut Race Valves

ARP Head Studs

ARP Rod Studs

























That's about all I remember right this second. Ill update as I go if i remember anything else I've done.

20w50 motor oil with Lucus Zink Break in Additive ( 85psi at 700rpm Idle )

So now with the issues. I broke the cam in for 30min @ 2600rpm with timing around 12*BTDC ( Didnt have time to set it any more. Ran okay so stayed focus on break in ) Had no issues aside from small coolant leak and a oil leak from my oil pressure gauge.

Im having and issue with running absolutely WAYYYYY too rich. So rich that when snapping the throttle it will pop and back fire. Its been fouling out plugs and running like dog crap under load. At idle and small rpm increases its not bad. After it all I figure the one thing I didnt do was the culprit, Adjustable Cam Gear. So about 3 weeks ago I looked around and found a Awesome company called Yota1 performance. After talking on the phone I order up a gear and got it installed.

I HAVE NOT GONE THREW THE PROCESS OF GETTING 100% BASE TIMING USING A DEGREE WHEEL AND PISTON STOP TO TIME MY CAM GEAR

It has No Power. Keeps Fouling plus. And is getting on my nerves!!! :hammerhead:
I changed to a Iridium Plug to hope it burns hotter but it didnt help much even though I didnt know a difference. Right now I have the Cam gear Advance 3*. Timing set at 16*BTDC  to get it to run good enough to not pop or back fire until about 2,000rpm. These Timing specs are WITHOUT the jumper installed. Without it jumped on a stock engine at idle 12*BTDC is about where it sits. So just kinda going off of that for now until you guys give me so much grief that I have to jumper and do the entire "22re Timing Process". Im just trying to get close enough that I notice the difference to start fine tuning it. I understand how much more fuel I gave it with the cam and valves but I figured I helped with the port work.

Im running 91Octane Chevron with Techron ( Oh yeaahh, that Techron is IMPORTANT! ) haha. I feel like my next option on my basics would be to drop the Octane down to 89 to see if my machine work was not as dramatic as im thinking it was. but with non seated rings and no more then 3 hrs of run time and 50 miles max it has 165 psi of compression average across the board. Sooooo without doing a CC check on the Cylinder Head im thinking im in the area 9.5-10:1 Compression Ratio. I hope!  :usa: 

So Im sitting here, looking at my 4runner threw the window. Drinking a beer, writing this hoping to start conversation with someone who and push my in other directions then Im already in. So if anyone has questions ill answer or Ideas ill take them. I wanna see some snow this winter and I need some help Y'all. Hope the new years is going good and let the games begin!

- Jason E.

« Last Edit: Jan 13, 2019, 10:43:21 PM by Jason E. »
- 1989 Toyota 4runner ( 22re, Dana 44, Sterling 10.25, 4.10, Family Rig in Progress) http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98687.msg1099361#msg1099361

- 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser (E-locker, Old Man Emu Lift, 33's, and Armor)

- 1996 Ford F250 7.3L powerstroke (Flat Bed, Manual, 2wd on 33,s)

- (SOLD) 1979 Toyota 1st Gen pickup 22re swap(http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=94183.0)

Dippin' , Spittin' , Truck Gittin' , God lovin' son of a Motha Fucka.

When In Doubt, Throttle Out. Because in the End, Its a Yoda Thang     - Brandon Jako

R.I.P. Brandon Jako! Ill see you on the flip side!

Gnarly4X

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #1 on: Jan 13, 2019, 07:03:32 AM »
Hi Jason,

Geezz... reads like you did a really great job on that rebuild.. NICE.  :beerchug:

Wow.... my first thought was fuel pressure regulator?  :dunno:

Are you able to check the fuel pressure with a gauge.... not inexpensive to buy.

Bought mine from LCE.  https://www.lceperformance.com/Fuel-Pressure-Gauge-Kit-22RE-3VZ-EFI-p/2019128.htm


Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Jan 13, 2019, 07:11:55 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Jason E. [OP]

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #2 on: Jan 13, 2019, 08:39:48 AM »
Thanks! I wish I could post some pictures but I cant get an answer on whats my new option for 3rd party image hosting sense photobucket is gone.

I have 48psi of fuel pressure to my filter. have no checked at the rail yet even though I should. I have direct vacuum from the intake manifold to my Fuel Pressure Regulator. I have not checked it aside from that. I wouldn't mind buying a new one but not from LCE. I avoid that company as much as possible... Over Priced Parts...

Thanks for that idea though I haven't looked in the direction of the FPR in a while.
- 1989 Toyota 4runner ( 22re, Dana 44, Sterling 10.25, 4.10, Family Rig in Progress) http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98687.msg1099361#msg1099361

- 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser (E-locker, Old Man Emu Lift, 33's, and Armor)

- 1996 Ford F250 7.3L powerstroke (Flat Bed, Manual, 2wd on 33,s)

- (SOLD) 1979 Toyota 1st Gen pickup 22re swap(http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=94183.0)

Dippin' , Spittin' , Truck Gittin' , God lovin' son of a Motha Fucka.

When In Doubt, Throttle Out. Because in the End, Its a Yoda Thang     - Brandon Jako

R.I.P. Brandon Jako! Ill see you on the flip side!

EASYRYDERDANGER

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #3 on: Jan 13, 2019, 06:26:52 PM »
Super easy way to get adjustable cam gear very close to spec is put crank at tdc #1 cyl and the adjust gear so the indicator points at the alignment mark on the rocker tower.  Its will get you super close

Jason E. [OP]

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #4 on: Jan 13, 2019, 06:37:38 PM »
Super easy way to get adjustable cam gear very close to spec is put crank at tdc #1 cyl and the adjust gear so the indicator points at the alignment mark on the rocker tower.  Its will get you super close


That is exactly where it sits as of this afternoon. The cam gear is inline with the rocker marker point. gear says 3* Advanced. Also installed a new Fuel Pressure gauge right off the rail to monitor FP. Looks like im low even though Im having a major over fueling issue. I have new pictures and am updating the post now with them.
- 1989 Toyota 4runner ( 22re, Dana 44, Sterling 10.25, 4.10, Family Rig in Progress) http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98687.msg1099361#msg1099361

- 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser (E-locker, Old Man Emu Lift, 33's, and Armor)

- 1996 Ford F250 7.3L powerstroke (Flat Bed, Manual, 2wd on 33,s)

- (SOLD) 1979 Toyota 1st Gen pickup 22re swap(http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=94183.0)

Dippin' , Spittin' , Truck Gittin' , God lovin' son of a Motha Fucka.

When In Doubt, Throttle Out. Because in the End, Its a Yoda Thang     - Brandon Jako

R.I.P. Brandon Jako! Ill see you on the flip side!

EASYRYDERDANGER

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #5 on: Jan 13, 2019, 07:21:22 PM »
16 degrees?  Dustributor in correct, or harmonic balancer spun so timing off?

EASYRYDERDANGER

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #6 on: Jan 13, 2019, 07:43:01 PM »
Ect?

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #7 on: Jan 13, 2019, 07:48:07 PM »
Did you check your TPS when you had it off?
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

Truer words have never been spoken...

Jason E. [OP]

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #8 on: Jan 13, 2019, 08:38:27 PM »
16 degrees?  Dustributor in correct, or harmonic balancer spun so timing off?

Distributor is in correct. I can move it from 5* ATDC all the way too 16-17*BTDC. So a tooth off is unlikely. When I originally built the engine I went to time it and I couldnt. So threw process of elimination I decided to change the balancer with a known good and thats what is on it now. So it is a possibility it could be spun but very unlikely also

Ect?

What do you mean "ECT"?


Did you check your TPS when you had it off?


I checked my tps after my first test drive. Come to find out the bottom ear for the lower bolt was broke off. Caused the engine to die. So I unplugged it and drove home ( Few Miles ). I got a "New Used" one and installed that. I tried so many times to set it with my DVOM but it just wasnt working. So in frustration I just timed it by sound and ran with it until I had my cousin can come help me get it set ( 4 hands instead of 2). Now it has one and is working. Idle drop when jumped.
- 1989 Toyota 4runner ( 22re, Dana 44, Sterling 10.25, 4.10, Family Rig in Progress) http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98687.msg1099361#msg1099361

- 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser (E-locker, Old Man Emu Lift, 33's, and Armor)

- 1996 Ford F250 7.3L powerstroke (Flat Bed, Manual, 2wd on 33,s)

- (SOLD) 1979 Toyota 1st Gen pickup 22re swap(http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=94183.0)

Dippin' , Spittin' , Truck Gittin' , God lovin' son of a Motha Fucka.

When In Doubt, Throttle Out. Because in the End, Its a Yoda Thang     - Brandon Jako

R.I.P. Brandon Jako! Ill see you on the flip side!

Jason E. [OP]

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #9 on: Jan 13, 2019, 09:07:12 PM »
Today after reading Gnarly4X's reply I decided to finally install a Fuel Pressure Gauge. So down to Tognotii's I went to find some fittings and a gauge. I didnt want to dump a bunch of money so a simple 100psi liquid gauge and 2 1/8th npt 45deg fittings later I ended up with this. I do not run my cold start injector so I deleted it completely and tapped my fuel rail for 1/8in NPT so I can come straight off the rail. This is what I got.


I had too Cut the tabs that hold the fuel line so I could tap and install my fittings



Drilled with 21/64 drill bit. Tapped with 1/8in NPT



45deg 1/8in male to female



2 of them later this is what I came up with.



Test Fit



Final Install




Sooooooo. With all that done I found out lone behold that my fuel pressure is LOW!!! How in the H*** is that possible with all my over fueling issues I have going on?? The more I build and try to correct issues the more I wanna tear her back down with a HG shim and put a OEM intake system on. But where is the fun in that  :dunno:

Ill keep trying and updating as yall help bring up ideas. Anything helps. Thanks !
- 1989 Toyota 4runner ( 22re, Dana 44, Sterling 10.25, 4.10, Family Rig in Progress) http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98687.msg1099361#msg1099361

- 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser (E-locker, Old Man Emu Lift, 33's, and Armor)

- 1996 Ford F250 7.3L powerstroke (Flat Bed, Manual, 2wd on 33,s)

- (SOLD) 1979 Toyota 1st Gen pickup 22re swap(http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=94183.0)

Dippin' , Spittin' , Truck Gittin' , God lovin' son of a Motha Fucka.

When In Doubt, Throttle Out. Because in the End, Its a Yoda Thang     - Brandon Jako

R.I.P. Brandon Jako! Ill see you on the flip side!

EASYRYDERDANGER

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #10 on: Jan 13, 2019, 09:15:44 PM »
U really should jump that terminal for timing, lol

Jason E. [OP]

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #11 on: Jan 13, 2019, 09:45:19 PM »
U really should jump that terminal for timing, lol

I didnt say that as in I dont jump it to check timing. I just have been doing it when I check it quickly to see why its backfiring. Ive seen and owned 22re's that have been way off timing for years that run better then this build. I just set it at 8*BTDC with the jumper installed and it ran so Retarded that it wouldnt go over 2400rpm without popping so bad my nabors thought I was shooting the AR15 so back to 16* it was for the night while I kept looking around for other issues to look at.
- 1989 Toyota 4runner ( 22re, Dana 44, Sterling 10.25, 4.10, Family Rig in Progress) http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98687.msg1099361#msg1099361

- 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser (E-locker, Old Man Emu Lift, 33's, and Armor)

- 1996 Ford F250 7.3L powerstroke (Flat Bed, Manual, 2wd on 33,s)

- (SOLD) 1979 Toyota 1st Gen pickup 22re swap(http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=94183.0)

Dippin' , Spittin' , Truck Gittin' , God lovin' son of a Motha Fucka.

When In Doubt, Throttle Out. Because in the End, Its a Yoda Thang     - Brandon Jako

R.I.P. Brandon Jako! Ill see you on the flip side!

EASYRYDERDANGER

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #12 on: Jan 14, 2019, 06:56:21 AM »
Does the cel work?  Maybe knock sensor bunged up or the wiring to it.  You didnt leave rags to prevent debris in the intake or exhaust on assembly causing a restriction?

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #13 on: Jan 14, 2019, 08:19:45 AM »
Hey Jason...

  :haha: Crazy question.... and I'm sure you got it right, but have you double checked the firing order?  1-3-4-2?

Do you have an O2 sensor on this engine?  :dunno:

Have you disconnected the battery and let Mama ECU take a short nap?  :gap:

And, you have checked ALL vacuum hoses.

Was anything done to the injectors?


Gnarls.  :inthedark:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Jason E. [OP]

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #14 on: Jan 14, 2019, 12:09:41 PM »
Does the cel work?  Maybe knock sensor bunged up or the wiring to it.  You didnt leave rags to prevent debris in the intake or exhaust on assembly causing a restriction?
Yes it does. And the knock sensor and wiring is deleted. Its been that was for a couple years now (before this build). And no. No rags anywhere. I only use masking tape to block off holes

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

- 1989 Toyota 4runner ( 22re, Dana 44, Sterling 10.25, 4.10, Family Rig in Progress) http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98687.msg1099361#msg1099361

- 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser (E-locker, Old Man Emu Lift, 33's, and Armor)

- 1996 Ford F250 7.3L powerstroke (Flat Bed, Manual, 2wd on 33,s)

- (SOLD) 1979 Toyota 1st Gen pickup 22re swap(http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=94183.0)

Dippin' , Spittin' , Truck Gittin' , God lovin' son of a Motha Fucka.

When In Doubt, Throttle Out. Because in the End, Its a Yoda Thang     - Brandon Jako

R.I.P. Brandon Jako! Ill see you on the flip side!

Jason E. [OP]

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #15 on: Jan 14, 2019, 12:12:30 PM »
Hey Jason...

  :haha: Crazy question.... and I'm sure you got it right, but have you double checked the firing order?  1-3-4-2?

Do you have an O2 sensor on this engine?  :dunno:

Have you disconnected the battery and let Mama ECU take a short nap?  :gap:

And, you have checked ALL vacuum hoses.

Was anything done to the injectors?


Gnarls.  :inthedark:
Ill take a quick peak again when i get home but yeah i have it right. Double checked it a few weeks ago. The 02 sensor is deleted also (before this build). But im going to redo that wiring and install it back in. I have the weld on bung and new sensor just debaiting on what location i want it at.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

- 1989 Toyota 4runner ( 22re, Dana 44, Sterling 10.25, 4.10, Family Rig in Progress) http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98687.msg1099361#msg1099361

- 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser (E-locker, Old Man Emu Lift, 33's, and Armor)

- 1996 Ford F250 7.3L powerstroke (Flat Bed, Manual, 2wd on 33,s)

- (SOLD) 1979 Toyota 1st Gen pickup 22re swap(http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=94183.0)

Dippin' , Spittin' , Truck Gittin' , God lovin' son of a Motha Fucka.

When In Doubt, Throttle Out. Because in the End, Its a Yoda Thang     - Brandon Jako

R.I.P. Brandon Jako! Ill see you on the flip side!

Jason E. [OP]

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #16 on: Jan 14, 2019, 12:13:35 PM »
Only have 2 vacuum lines. Rest are deleted.

Injectors only got cleaned.

And yes. Have done hard reset on ecu a couple times


Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

- 1989 Toyota 4runner ( 22re, Dana 44, Sterling 10.25, 4.10, Family Rig in Progress) http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98687.msg1099361#msg1099361

- 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser (E-locker, Old Man Emu Lift, 33's, and Armor)

- 1996 Ford F250 7.3L powerstroke (Flat Bed, Manual, 2wd on 33,s)

- (SOLD) 1979 Toyota 1st Gen pickup 22re swap(http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=94183.0)

Dippin' , Spittin' , Truck Gittin' , God lovin' son of a Motha Fucka.

When In Doubt, Throttle Out. Because in the End, Its a Yoda Thang     - Brandon Jako

R.I.P. Brandon Jako! Ill see you on the flip side!

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #17 on: Jan 14, 2019, 12:39:15 PM »
:eye:
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #18 on: Jan 14, 2019, 12:59:47 PM »
https://cartreatments.com/bad-ignition-coil-symptoms/
I recommend You try a different ignition coil with ignitor assembly. Maybe one off a know good vehicle.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #19 on: Jan 14, 2019, 02:52:17 PM »
I'm no expert on anything but aren't the knock sensor and O2 sensor kinda important-ish to making a fuel injected engine run right? I've been told that a 22RE will not run well without a knock sensor

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #20 on: Jan 14, 2019, 03:33:11 PM »
Yeah the 02 sensor is probably a big one too.
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #21 on: Jan 14, 2019, 04:01:30 PM »
How do you know FOR SURE that it is running overly rich? Backfiring and poping could be from running lean, and the fouled looking plugs could be from the rings not seated. I don't know the spec but if you say your fuel pressure is low, and you run a ported head, bigger cam, header a bit higher comp on the stock ECU it would be obvious to me that it is running in fact lean. You say you are throwing more fuel with the cam and ported head but you are in fact allowing more air, and with a primitive ECU to control air/fuel ratio, it has narrow parameters to adjust, even though MAF (mass air flow) equipped EFI is usually more forgiving of increased airflow. Have you checked for a vacuum leak with brake cleaner or similar fluid? Does the ecu throw a code?

If you are indeed overly rich, the only sensors that I can think of that have a big impact on a/f ratios are, in that order, ECT (engine coolant temperature) and MAF. I donk't think a faulty o2 sensor or IAT (intake air temperature sensor) could make it run that bad. If it's not a sensor issue, it would have to be an injector stuck open (a different looking spark plug would give a clue), or the 4 injectors were damaged when cleaned or since the last time they ran.

Once the fuel pressure issue is solved, if you are not interested and a tunable ECU like megasquirt or microsquirt, I would at least suggest an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to keep the a/f ratio around 12.5:1 at full throttle, and to fine tune the timing. A tunable ECU would however give the best results, bring out the full potential of your build, and give you the best fuel mileage.

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #22 on: Jan 15, 2019, 12:39:28 AM »
With the ecu not getting a signal from the O2 sensor, the ecu will run the engine rich to prevent a lean condition.

When you pulled the knock sensor, did you do anything to full the ecu into thinking the KS was still there?

With you removing the KS and O2, and with just two vacuum lines, pretty much everything else, you should be running a stand-alone ecu.

http://www.lcengineering.com/LCTechPages/fueltech50.html
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'91 Blue X-cab 22re, 35's/5.29's,Truetrac front, ARB rear, dual cases, and custom Safari flatbed, bumper, interior.
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gnob

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #23 on: Jan 15, 2019, 07:07:59 AM »
Not having the O2 and knock are causing the problem. Quit chasing your tail.
The ecu cannot time properly without the knock.
It cannot control fuel without the O2.

hold this. . .

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #24 on: Jan 15, 2019, 07:44:49 AM »
I would argue the knock isn't really important in most applications, but the 02 is the single most critical sensor!
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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #25 on: Jan 15, 2019, 08:18:20 AM »
From what I believe the ECU does if the mama ECU does not detect the signals that she is expecting  to get, she's not going to be happy and the question is what is her default position regarding Fuel and ignition timing to that engine when she does not get all of her sensor inputs.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #26 on: Jan 15, 2019, 10:30:25 AM »
just to make sure, you said you are running a 93 22re. are you also using 93 injectors, sensors and a 93 ecu?
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Snowtoy

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #27 on: Jan 15, 2019, 12:08:15 PM »
I would argue the knock isn't really important in most applications, but the 02 is the single most critical sensor!

If the ecu doesn't get a constant signal from the KS above about 2000 rpm's, or fooled into thinking it is getting one, it will retard the timing to avoid damaging the engine.  If you are going to run an efi engine without a KS, you need to use a mechanical advance distributor, as Toyota did with the first 22re engine.

just to make sure, you said you are running a 93 22re. are you also using 93 injectors, sensors and a 93 ecu?

This, ecu and injectors are different between the years of the re.  The '89-'91 are different than the '93-'95, and would assume the '85-'88 are different than the '89-'91 as well.
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'91 Blue X-cab 22re, 35's/5.29's,Truetrac front, ARB rear, dual cases, and custom Safari flatbed, bumper, interior.
The money pit '87 Supra resto/mod

Jason E. [OP]

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #28 on: Jan 15, 2019, 06:25:20 PM »
I'm no expert on anything but aren't the knock sensor and O2 sensor kinda important-ish to making a fuel injected engine run right? I've been told that a 22RE will not run well without a knock sensor

It ran without a knock sensor. But yes. Not well. Ran brand new wire and sensor this morning

From what I believe the ECU does if the mama ECU does not detect the signals that she is expecting  to get, she's not going to be happy and the question is what is her default position regarding Fuel and ignition timing to that engine when she does not get all of her sensor inputs.

I agree completely. Thats why im back tracking my issues as I see them come up

just to make sure, you said you are running a 93 22re. are you also using 93 injectors, sensors and a 93 ecu?

Yes. 1993 Red Top Injectors, ECU, and Harness

How do you know FOR SURE that it is running overly rich? Backfiring and poping could be from running lean, and the fouled looking plugs could be from the rings not seated. I don't know the spec but if you say your fuel pressure is low, and you run a ported head, bigger cam, header a bit higher comp on the stock ECU it would be obvious to me that it is running in fact lean. You say you are throwing more fuel with the cam and ported head but you are in fact allowing more air, and with a primitive ECU to control air/fuel ratio, it has narrow parameters to adjust, even though MAF (mass air flow) equipped EFI is usually more forgiving of increased airflow. Have you checked for a vacuum leak with brake cleaner or similar fluid? Does the ecu throw a code?

If you are indeed overly rich, the only sensors that I can think of that have a big impact on a/f ratios are, in that order, ECT (engine coolant temperature) and MAF. I donk't think a faulty o2 sensor or IAT (intake air temperature sensor) could make it run that bad. If it's not a sensor issue, it would have to be an injector stuck open (a different looking spark plug would give a clue), or the 4 injectors were damaged when cleaned or since the last time they ran.

Once the fuel pressure issue is solved, if you are not interested and a tunable ECU like megasquirt or microsquirt, I would at least suggest an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to keep the a/f ratio around 12.5:1 at full throttle, and to fine tune the timing. A tunable ECU would however give the best results, bring out the full potential of your build, and give you the best fuel mileage.

Thats great to head. And as you said it might be running lean I started looking in that dirrection. Lone behold you were right. The AFM was not reading as I would up the throttle so It never told the ecu I was getting more air.

What Adjustable FPR would you suggest? I have direct intake supplied to my FPR currently and I dont think it likes it.

With the ecu not getting a signal from the O2 sensor, the ecu will run the engine rich to prevent a lean condition.

When you pulled the knock sensor, did you do anything to full the ecu into thinking the KS was still there?

With you removing the KS and O2, and with just two vacuum lines, pretty much everything else, you should be running a stand-alone ecu.

http://www.lcengineering.com/LCTechPages/fueltech50.html

I would Love to go stand alone and that is my plan. But for now Im going to avoid that dirrection.

I would argue the knock isn't really important in most applications, but the 02 is the single most critical sensor!

I will be installing my 02 this weekend.

Not having the O2 and knock are causing the problem. Quit chasing your tail.
The ecu cannot time properly without the knock.
It cannot control fuel without the O2.




Knock is Installed. 02 will be soon. It cant control it. no. But can run off of a base tune the ECU has stored in its memory.
- 1989 Toyota 4runner ( 22re, Dana 44, Sterling 10.25, 4.10, Family Rig in Progress) http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98687.msg1099361#msg1099361

- 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser (E-locker, Old Man Emu Lift, 33's, and Armor)

- 1996 Ford F250 7.3L powerstroke (Flat Bed, Manual, 2wd on 33,s)

- (SOLD) 1979 Toyota 1st Gen pickup 22re swap(http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=94183.0)

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When In Doubt, Throttle Out. Because in the End, Its a Yoda Thang     - Brandon Jako

R.I.P. Brandon Jako! Ill see you on the flip side!

Jason E. [OP]

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Re: **Built 22re** Need Experienced Engine Help
« Reply #29 on: Jan 15, 2019, 06:47:39 PM »
Me and the Mad scientist ( my cousin ) tore into it today. And we started correcting a lot of issues I had in my harness. We reran a new knock sensor. Wiring harness ( Coax Cable ), and Signal wire issue I had. After that I did notice my idle smooth out with was nice. So after that we started to adjust the TPS and it wouldn't work right, Number where threw the roof so we stopped to look elsewhere. Come to find out my EFI Relay was bad and not sending power to my BATT pin on the ECU ( Not the B+ on the ecu )WIIIIITCH in fact after I fixed that I found out another wiring goof I did, Instead of tieing in my AFM B+ into the Circuit Open Relay ( Witch is deleted ) I simply ran it to a separate power sourse that ended up being dead. I gave it Key on ignition power the same way I have everything else ran and BAAAAM! Instantly ran better. So then I went back to timing and would you believe i, the TPS basically fell into to calibration first try. Timed it with a jumper @ 8*BTDC and it ran the best I have ever herd.

I took it out for a test drive and it did great aside from when im in a hard load (1st gear with 4.10R&P on full widths ) I noticed it running a little lean still but thats understandable. No 02 sensor. So as I started with I wanted to guys to throw ideas at me and it worked flawlessly. THANK YOUUU!!

With that said Ill update when I get my sensor in and ill be sure too look into option for better tuning. I will be running LCE's Adjustable A/F dial with a Bosch sensor. If anyone has info on a Mechanical Afjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator better then Back Shelf Napa in line ones im ALL EARS!

Thank you guys again. :beerchug: :usa:
- 1989 Toyota 4runner ( 22re, Dana 44, Sterling 10.25, 4.10, Family Rig in Progress) http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98687.msg1099361#msg1099361

- 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser (E-locker, Old Man Emu Lift, 33's, and Armor)

- 1996 Ford F250 7.3L powerstroke (Flat Bed, Manual, 2wd on 33,s)

- (SOLD) 1979 Toyota 1st Gen pickup 22re swap(http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=94183.0)

Dippin' , Spittin' , Truck Gittin' , God lovin' son of a Motha Fucka.

When In Doubt, Throttle Out. Because in the End, Its a Yoda Thang     - Brandon Jako

R.I.P. Brandon Jako! Ill see you on the flip side!

 
 
 
 
 

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