Author Topic: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table  (Read 2674 times)

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fireitup

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Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« on: Nov 29, 2018, 04:23:35 AM »
So i got this little welder to start doing some rust repair and maybe build a bumper one day.

Untitled

I have near to zero storage space and a carport attached to my house for my truck to live in.  This is also where I do all my work.  I was dinking around in the driveway practicing some beads when i came up with this idea for a removable table top for my foldable saw horses.  Here are said saw horses.

Untitled

I figure I could design the table to sit on top of the 2x4s and bolt through them to secure it in place.  When I am done I can unbolt the table top and hang it.  Saw horses fold away as well.

I am not a mechanical engineer but I know my way around Pro/E and Autodesk Fusion pretty well.  Both are parametric modeling software.  Here is my first workable design that I am happy with.

3_ x 1_ x 11ga tube v11 img1

Design consists of 8, 3' segments of 3"x1" 11g steel tubing strapped together by 2 lengths of 1"x1" square tubing.
All segments spaced 1.5" apart.
2, 0.25" holes drilled at either end will be used to bolt the table to the sawhorses.

3_ x 1_ x 11ga tube v11

The second segment on one side will have tabs welded on so that it can be moved.  One configuration will keep the spacing the same as the other segments. Second configuration will allow it to butt up against the end segment, allowing for my bench vise to be bolted to 4, 0.5" drilled holes.

The table as designed is 36" wide x 34.5" long.

 :flamer:
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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #1 on: Nov 29, 2018, 10:44:53 AM »
 :popcorn:
Even the most primitive society, has an intimate respect for the insane.

fireitup [OP]

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #2 on: Nov 30, 2018, 03:42:25 AM »
Generated a drawing showing all dimensions.  A little busy but it is all there, i think.

welding_dwg

Google Drive link to download the PDF: http://bit.ly/2FMUvTG
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fireitup [OP]

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #3 on: Dec 01, 2018, 12:51:25 PM »
Called around and none of the steel suppliers in town seem to stock 11ga tube in 3"x1".  Most stock 14ga.  Not what I was going for initially so I went ahead and modeled the welds and changed the tube to 14ga to run a static load study.

Absolutely no need to do this probably, but what the heck. Lets nerd out for a bit.

Assuming that the table is constrained at the end tubes (mostly true)

14ga-constraints

Assuming the table is designed to support ~562lb (2500N) spread across the remaining tube sections

14ga-loads

Solving predicts a maximum deflection of 0.68mm in the center (Image shows deflection scaled up 0.5x...)

14ga-displacement

Also, looking at the safety factor analysis shows that the welds on the constrained section could fail at 1.05x the designed load (527.5lb).

safety_factor

14ga-safety-2

This seems like a reasonable conclusion, since the constraints prevent the end tube sections from flexing at all.  The square tube support flexing with the other tube sections wants to tear away from the pieces that cant move.  Not too worried about this, since a) I am not building a pedestrian bridge or something and b) the welds I modeled are actually pretty dinky.  Ill do a double pass there just in case I ever need to set a Chevy Big Block V8 on it.  Probably never going to happen though...

I think i am safe to proceed with 14ga.  Lighter and cheaper!

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fireitup [OP]

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #4 on: Dec 07, 2018, 09:13:36 AM »
Picked up the stock for this today. $100 cut from the supplier. 12 cuts.

Consisted of 1 24 1x3 tube and 1 24 1x1 tube. All 14ga.

Never purchased steel stock before so chime in if you think I was ripped off!



Will post mock up pics this weekend.


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fireitup [OP]

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #5 on: Dec 07, 2018, 07:15:14 PM »
A little more organized. This is the material that will make up the table.




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fireitup [OP]

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #6 on: Dec 09, 2018, 08:32:35 AM »
Mocked up. Everything looks pretty good. Most of the cuts from the steel supplier were 36 1/16- 36 1/8. That left one guy (marked with the angle magnet) around 35 5/8. Ill make that piece the removable one.



Overall pleased with the mock up. Need to invest in a bandsaw if I want tighter tolerances in the future.

Next up Ill want to check for level and squareness before doing any welding.


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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #7 on: Dec 09, 2018, 09:48:22 AM »
Looks great  :thumbs: 
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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #8 on: Dec 09, 2018, 07:27:20 PM »
Horizontal/vertical saw if youre gonna be cutting a lot of metal in the future
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fireitup [OP]

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #9 on: Dec 15, 2018, 07:45:53 PM »
Was able to get back at this today:

Untitled
Squared up the support tubes with this makeshift jig and tacked the first two top tubes in place


Tack

Untitled
Fit Check.

Untitled
Spaced out the rest of the top tubes and welded those in place on the top side.

Untitled
Checked the spacing on the last tube.  This is the piece I am going to keep removable and weld tabs so it can be positioned as shown and also butt up against the end tube.

Next I flipped it over and completed all the welds on the bottom side.

Untitled
Ok..

Untitled
Better...

Untitled
Alot better!

Untitled
Still fits, however the support tubes got distorted during the welding.

Untitled

Untitled

Guess I get to learn how to flame straighten! Turns out the support tubes were 11 gauge.  I had asked for 14 from the steel supply place.  Not complaining as that is what I initially wanted, and the distortion would probably have been more significant with 14ga.

This is alot more fun than buying a table from Harbor Freight.



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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #10 on: Dec 15, 2018, 08:32:54 PM »
Took me awhile to reason out the support tube bowing.....

To bow that way,  the top of the support tube has to shrink more than the bottom.


Looks like you welded from one side to the other.    While welding the top expanded more than the support tube.    So it grew a little bit in comparison to the support tube as you laid the bead.    Once cool,   the top shrinks,  bowing the support tube.


I think you can avoid bowing if you tack one side, then the other   let cool.    then do the bead.
Ed
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fireitup [OP]

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #11 on: Dec 16, 2018, 05:53:35 AM »
Yes, your reasoning is in line with what I have read. 

Distortion was not even on my radar when I started this, but it all makes sense now.  I think it may have been nearly unavoidable in this case without pre shaping the tubes. There were a total of 28 welds on the same side of each support tube.  Each weld results in expansion while hot and contraction when cooling.  During the contraction the steel will overshoot past its original shape.  This effect x28 results in what I am seeing...

Interesting but long video on flame straightening that i found useful:


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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #12 on: Dec 16, 2018, 08:08:36 AM »
Never purchased steel stock before so chime in if you think I was ripped off!

Recently purchased approximately 3.5 feet x 14 inches 1/4 inch plate for a smoker. $70.
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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #13 on: Dec 16, 2018, 12:56:33 PM »
Picked up the stock for this today. $100 cut from the supplier. 12 cuts.

Sounds like a good price for about 55lbs of steel and cut to size.

I think you can avoid bowing if you tack one side, then the other   let cool.    then do the bead.

This, along with moving around with your welds, i.e., from one support piece to the other and one end to the other.. 

I think it may have been nearly unavoidable in this case without pre shaping the tubes. There were a total of 28 welds on the same side of each support tube.

Another way to avoid warping, is only laying the amount of bead need to do the job, with your table, after the tacks, you likely would have been fine  with about 1" of bead on each end of the 1x3 to hold it. 


Angle iron would have also been better to use for the support pieces, 3/16-1/4" piece would have weighed about the same as the square tube, but would have been less susceptible to warping from the heat.



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fireitup [OP]

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #14 on: Dec 16, 2018, 07:11:01 PM »
Thanks for all the wisdom! Definitely learning alot as I go along.

I attempted to straighten the supports out with a handheld MAPP torch.  Definitely not hot enough... 

I don't have an acetylene setup so I need to either:

1) Get an acetylene setup
2) Make a friend with an acetylene setup
3) Use the underside of the supports for bead practice

We'll see how patient I am before #3 happens.
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fireitup [OP]

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #15 on: Dec 16, 2018, 07:21:15 PM »
I attempted to straighten the supports out with a handheld MAPP torch.  Definitely not hot enough... 

Quoting myself..

So I just measured the deflection from level and it now measures 2/16ths.  So that means the MAPP torch actually corrected it by 1/16th.  Does that mean if I do the same thing 2 more times it could bring it back to level?

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #16 on: Dec 16, 2018, 07:22:34 PM »
Is it real MAPP or MAP Pro?
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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #17 on: Dec 16, 2018, 07:51:55 PM »
Looks good though.  You should put it upside down on a slab and drive on it a few times.
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fireitup [OP]

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #18 on: Dec 16, 2018, 08:29:22 PM »
Is it real MAPP or MAP Pro?

MAP Pro


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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #19 on: Dec 16, 2018, 08:39:47 PM »
MAP Pro

Darn yellow bottle propane :cheese:
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #20 on: Dec 17, 2018, 12:16:51 PM »
Thanks for all the wisdom! Definitely learning alot as I go along.

I don't have an acetylene setup so I need to either:

1) Get an acetylene setup
2) Make a friend with an acetylene setup
3) Use the underside of the supports for bead practice

We'll see how patient I am before #3 happens.

The quickest and cheapest solution is to make some relief cuts in the support, true them up using a straight edge, and weld back together.
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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #21 on: Dec 17, 2018, 04:58:20 PM »
I wouldn't do relief cuts.     

The weld may end up being weaker than the surround metal (with me welding, it definitely would be weaker) and with the weld under tension, your failure mode would be for the table to fold under weight.
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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #22 on: Dec 17, 2018, 05:50:08 PM »
It is a welding table, it should never see the amount of weight or force applied the welds to ever be an issue.
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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #23 on: Dec 17, 2018, 06:15:45 PM »
It is a welding table, it should never see the amount of weight or force applied the welds to ever be an issue.

And you've never used a screwdriver as a chisel.....
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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #24 on: Dec 17, 2018, 08:59:19 PM »
Nope, a pry bar and then awl after breaking it, :D, but never a chisel.

I know where you are coming from, but as with any tool used for something not designed for, its failure is on the user not the tool.
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fireitup [OP]

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #25 on: Feb 07, 2019, 01:13:41 PM »
Its happening




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fireitup [OP]

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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #26 on: Feb 08, 2019, 07:50:16 PM »



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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #27 on: Feb 08, 2019, 09:36:37 PM »
Good stuff
I very much enjoyed the flame straightening video
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Re: Fireitup Fabs a Fab Table
« Reply #28 on: Feb 09, 2019, 01:33:17 PM »
Much better after a little convincing with the new torch. This thing is a beast.










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