Author Topic: Stuck Lug Nuts  (Read 3320 times)

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83_P/U_4x4

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Stuck Lug Nuts
« on: Nov 26, 2018, 11:41:45 AM »
Hey Everyone  :beerchug:!
I've been digging into my '83 Toyota Pickup 4x4 front axle with a rebuild kit and the driver side lug nuts won't come off!! I've tried PB Blaster, WD-40, using a small impact wrench, applying pressure to the brake and using a breaker bar with an extension (all of that in that order) and so far I've gotten one off and in that one it looks like someone started to shave the inside of it.

So it looks like they have been over torqued or cross threaded and are now stuck on. I've seen a lot of answers to this problem but it seems like most are dangerous "redneck solutions" which aren't wrong but I'm planning to use those as a last resort. What I'm hoping for in this new thread is any ideas to get them off while limiting damage, I already have a full set of replacement lug bolts so I'll break 'em if I have to.

I plan to use an air impact driver and heat them up with a blow torch but any other suggestions would be helpful :beerchug:

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #1 on: Nov 26, 2018, 11:49:38 AM »
Heat, PB Blaster and a bigger impact
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #2 on: Nov 26, 2018, 12:04:52 PM »
Try making a relief cut in the nut.
Time to go wheelin!

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #3 on: Nov 26, 2018, 12:08:06 PM »
Hey Everyone  :beerchug:!
I've been digging into my '83 Toyota Pickup 4x4 front axle with a rebuild kit and the driver side lug nuts won't come off!! I've tried PB Blaster, WD-40, using a small impact wrench, applying pressure to the brake and using a breaker bar with an extension (all of that in that order) and so far I've gotten one off and in that one it looks like someone started to shave the inside of it.

So it looks like they have been over torqued or cross threaded and are now stuck on. I've seen a lot of answers to this problem but it seems like most are dangerous "redneck solutions" which aren't wrong but I'm planning to use those as a last resort. What I'm hoping for in this new thread is any ideas to get them off while limiting damage, I already have a full set of replacement lug bolts so I'll break 'em if I have to.

I plan to use an air impact driver and heat them up with a blow torch but any other suggestions would be helpful :beerchug:
Just brake them off. Lug studs and nuts are cheap and easy to replace. Use the breaker bar, Your time has value and in the time it will take You to try all that stuff You could have replaced them all with new. :twocents:
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #4 on: Nov 26, 2018, 01:01:13 PM »
I was gonna suggest that but it kinda seemed like a "redneck solution". If you really think they are cross threaded, there is no point in getting the nut off because they will still be chingered up and you will replace them anyways. Give them the beans, nothing to lose.
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

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Gnarly4X

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #5 on: Nov 27, 2018, 07:38:02 AM »
Lug nuts… well I haven’t read about those for awhile.

OEM lug nuts and the studs are typically 10.9 grade steel.  If they won’t loosen up, twist them off and punch out the stud, and carefully pound in new studs in the hub.  Bgen makes it sounds easy and cheap, but it can be a big pain in the arse.  His point…by the time you post here, try this and that, you probably could have the fix done.  Time waits for no man.  Lug nuts either come loose… or they don’t.  :yesnod:

I don’t know how many posts it will take to find the fix?   :gap:

Redneck fixes work great for rednecks and on stuck lug nuts!!  :dancing:

Gnarls.  :dunno:
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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #6 on: Nov 27, 2018, 10:54:08 AM »
use a bigger impact. somethign will happen. if htey snap the studs, then replace them, at lest you will have it off

I actually use a battery powered impact now, and it has worked for everything I have thrown @ it. It is a dewalt XR 20v brushless unit, with Up to 700 ft-lbs of max torque and 1200 ft-lbs of max breakaway torque
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83_P/U_4x4 [OP]

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #7 on: Dec 03, 2018, 09:53:08 PM »
So as an update I got them off with PB Blaster and a bigger impact driver :clap:

Thank you all so much for your responses and hopefully they can help others who encounter this.

And as a key point, my tire was so bald (blame my father who had the car before and didn't care for it) that even with someone holding the brake down, the wheel still turned when I used the breaker bar. So my theory is the that the breaker bar mimics the center axis of rotation on the center of the wheel thus turning it like water falling and turning a water wheel. So the reason why the impact driver worked and not the breaker bar is because the axis of rotation was on the specific lug nut not the center of the wheel.

If you all have any other tips or tricks I would post them as to help others!

emsvitil

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #8 on: Dec 03, 2018, 10:13:02 PM »

How buggered are the studs and nuts?


 :headscratch:
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83_P/U_4x4 [OP]

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #9 on: Dec 07, 2018, 09:42:46 AM »
Both the studs and the nuts don't look too bad but I'm going to get new ones all the same. Good chance to upgrade to a higher quality metal.

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #10 on: Dec 07, 2018, 09:58:58 AM »
There is nothing out there better than the OEM ones. Aftermarket ones are always going to be inferior in quality and sometimes fit. The ones I got for a solid axle were slightly too big and a pain to install. Just a heads up. The only exception is perhaps ARP if they make lug studs but I don't think you'll need those or be happy with the price.

83_P/U_4x4 [OP]

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #11 on: Dec 07, 2018, 10:53:15 AM »
I'm not sure about quality but I feel ya on installing them. I'm putting them into the one side that I already have off and they only get so far before they stop, probably going to have them pressed in but I am not sure if they will damage the hub or not. So if anyone has experience please throw it on this thread. :beerchug:

By the way the studs are from Low Range Off Road so I hope they are "up to snuff"

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #12 on: Dec 07, 2018, 01:04:57 PM »
watch LROR's video series on rebuilding a front axle on YouTube.
pound them in.

CB

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #13 on: Dec 07, 2018, 01:41:19 PM »
Anti-seize the threads and the part that holds the stud in. slide stud threw hub.
use old lug nut to pull stud threw the hub. sometimes large washers between the old lug nut and the hub helps.
again lots of anti-seize used. use a torque wrench so You done go to crazy when pulling the stud tight.
finish reassemblie of everything. install wheel. torque lug nuts to 95LB. recheck often until they are consistent at 95lb. Your done.
The kids on the lube rack break studs often.   :_oops:
I have used this method for years with no issues.  :twocents:
Again recheck the torque for a while if Your changing them all. If it's just one stud. do above and Your done.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #14 on: Dec 07, 2018, 02:20:12 PM »
I pressed all mine in. No anti-seize.
Time to go wheelin!

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #15 on: Dec 07, 2018, 02:23:02 PM »
For Toyota 6 lug I use 75# for alloy rims, 85# for steel with anti-seize

They hardly ever fall off :burnout:
« Last Edit: Dec 07, 2018, 08:16:52 PM by liveoak »

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #16 on: Dec 08, 2018, 05:37:24 AM »
It’s obvious there are many different experiences out there, and everyone has their opinions or belief on what works and what doesn’t. 

What is interesting is that there are lots of posts in internet forums with information or opinions that may be contrary to known facts. 

Another use of anti-seize is on spark plugs.  It’s NOT recommended by any spark plug manufacturer.  There are specific reasons what it is NOT recommended.  Yet… I read on a forum someone advocates using it.  Typically, when someone learns the facts, they admit to their ignorance or misbelief.

In all my years of being around wheel and lug nuts, I have never used anti-seize compound on them.  I have also never had a problem with stripping, cross-threading, or twisting off a stud.  I also do not use my torque wrench on them, I simply make a “hand/arm torque guess”- is that a careless way to tighten lug nuts, probably.   Having wheeled for many years, I ALWAYS double check the lug nuts after several hours of driving after I have loosened and retighten lug nuts.  I check them regularly after a couple trail runs.  I also check them when I get my vehicle home from the Discount Tire Store… basically I don’t completely trust anyone when it comes to my safety and anyone that touches one of my vehicles.

I have experienced a tire shop snap off a stud, stupidly using too much torque with an air impact tool.  I have had to replace the stud on a hub because the tire shop cross-threaded the nut.  I have also checked lug nuts and noted that several were way over torqued and one or two were under torqued.  I have witnessed a tire tech using a big air impact to tighten the lug nuts, then use a torque wrench to check.  Here’s the problem for me…. How much torque did he apply to the nut with the air impact tool? ….. He has no clue!!  So he puts the torque wrench on the nut, it clicks at the setting at 80 foot pounds.  Well, he knows that the nut is at least 80 lbs.   But does he know that it could be over torqued to 120 pounds?

Here’s a very interesting video that explains why NOT to use anti-seize lubricant on wheel studs and nuts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3ndeXiZUeM

Here's a nifty torque spec chart:

https://www.discounttiredirect.com/learn/wheel-torque#toyota

Gnarls.  :blah:


« Last Edit: Dec 08, 2018, 06:09:02 AM by Gnarly4X »
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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #17 on: Dec 08, 2018, 09:49:05 AM »

that video explains nothing. He's claiming if you're using anti seize, you're lubricating the stud thus invalidating the "dry torque rating" of the usual 95-100 lb-ft. As LO said, reduce torque accordingly. That being said, I live in Arizona and we don't salt our roads because it doesn't snow. So I just torque them dry and go.

About spark plugs, something makes me shudder inside with the steel plug and aluminum head  :shudder:

:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

Truer words have never been spoken...

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #18 on: Dec 08, 2018, 09:50:15 AM »
To clarify
Anti-Seize to install the studs and prevent damage to the threads of the stud while installing.
Anti-seize should not be used on lug nut threads unless installing a new stud.
Also anti-seize should never be used on spark plugs.  :twocents: But what do I know  :hammerhead:
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #19 on: Dec 08, 2018, 02:29:07 PM »
Been using anti-seize on my plugs and studs all my working years and haven't had a single problem, just my experience as a working mechanic, your experience may vary.   :twocents:   :wave:
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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #20 on: Dec 08, 2018, 03:44:48 PM »
that video explains nothing. He's claiming if you're using anti seize, you're lubricating the stud thus invalidating the "dry torque rating" of the usual 95-100 lb-ft. As LO said, reduce torque accordingly. That being said, I live in Arizona and we don't salt our roads because it doesn't snow. So I just torque them dry and go.

About spark plugs, something makes me shudder inside with the steel plug and aluminum head  :shudder:



Hey 300k,

So… that video “explains nothing” to you?  What part of his detailed demonstration did you NOT get? Were his instruments fake?  Was the video altered? Was his explanation of how the studs are stretched beyond its yield strength? Are you completely ignorant of the basic laws of physics and mathematical formulas he clearly showed in the video?  :inthedark:

“He's claiming if you're using anti seize, you're lubricating the stud thus invalidating the "dry torque rating" of the usual 95-100 lb-ft” 

Correct.  Not only is he “claiming”, he factually demonstrated the result of the lubrication effects of using anti-seize.  :yesnod:

“As LO said, reduce torque accordingly. “

If the Toyota dry torque specification is 80 ft lbs, how many foot pounds of torque do you recommend to “reduce” if you use anti-seize on the studs?   :disturbed:

“About spark plugs, something makes me shudder inside with the steel plug and aluminum head   ”

What does “shudder inside” mean?  :dunno:

You post Bravo Sierra frequently that is either totally ignorant of any facts or deliberately argumentative.  Often you make obviously cutting tongue-in-cheek comments that I usually get, apparently in attempt to be humorous.  Did I miss the humor?  :blah:

If you can present any data, educated opinions, or any automotive engineering genius from any source that disputes or contradicts what that video demonstrated, I would really like to see it.  :thumbs:

““What gets us into trouble is not what we don’t know. It’s what we know for sure that just ain’t so.” ~ Mark Twain

Gnarls.  :gap:
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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #21 on: Dec 08, 2018, 04:07:16 PM »
I have never lived in a State where there is extreme cold weather and salt often used on roads, or where corrosion and rust is a serious problem - close to ocean waters or salt pray.  If I did and I had a problem with lug nuts freezing up because of rust and corrosion, I’d definitely consider using anti-seize.  If DOES work to help prevent corrosion and rust.

I believe the specification on OEM Grade 10.9 studs for maximum yield strength is a range, and therefore being careful with the number of ft lbs of torque when using anti-seize, and still maintaining a safe lug nut tightening torque is possible.  I’d be checking my lug nuts frequently until I was satisified the were tight enough for my peace of mind and not backing off due to the lubrication of anti-seize.

My father and I commercially fished on the Oregon coast for many years.  We used anti-seize compound all over many different bolts and nuts on our boats to help reduce corrosion, electrolysis, oxidation and rust.

Gnarls.  :blah:
« Last Edit: Dec 08, 2018, 04:13:25 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #22 on: Dec 08, 2018, 04:14:02 PM »

You claim "Here’s a very interesting video that explains why NOT to use anti-seize lubricant on wheel studs and nuts"

No, it doesn't explain why you should NOT use anti seize, it explains that using a thread lubricant decreases friction from threading, and creates a situation where if you're using a dry torque rating, you can get a much higher torque than you intend when lubricating threads. Did it really take a genius to figure that one out? Not only that, but you claim the "studs are stretched beyond its yield strength?" when using anti seize. Don't know if you watched the video but he didn't exceed the yield stress of the hardware he was using. still within 10%.

Also with that video and his awesome instrument, you can see that with that particular hardware and torque rating, he got about a 30% higher yield stress on the bolt. If that is telling of what another bolt may do, you could torque your lug nuts with anti seize to 50-60 lb ft, or if you torque to 100 ft lbs like the rest of the world (including the tire shops I've been to :dunno:) 60-80 ft lbs.

Steel and aluminum are dissimilar metals, and also have different expansion rates. the anti seize is rumored to cause a miss fire, but give me an example where an engine has failed to operate from a little anti seize on the threads or where a wheel has come off?
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

Truer words have never been spoken...

Gnarly4X

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #23 on: Dec 08, 2018, 04:55:51 PM »
No, it doesn't explain why you should NOT use anti seize...

300k... my 3 brain cells work differently.  For me the video and his explanation was very clear and very simply demonstrated as to why you should not use anti-seize on lug nuts.  I think a 6 grader could get it.

Of course, it is possible that my limited empirical knowledge, 5 years of college, 3-digit I.Q., coupled with about 60 years of actively being around automotive hobbies, auto racing, and engine builders could be failing or just all wrong.

Since the most advanced automotive engineers in the world spec lug nut torque numbers without anti-seize, I have to defer to their expertise, and the reasons why.

Like your "I don't air down my tires" argument you pathetically attempted to defend, your argument here is another example of a comment that is illogical and is contrary to exoterically known facts. 

Too bad you can't see it.  I'm somewhat puzzled by your lack of understanding.... or perhaps you just enjoy engaging in contradictory discourse?

Gnarls.  :spin:

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #24 on: Dec 08, 2018, 05:01:01 PM »
Like your "I don't air down my tires" argument

was not the argument, was never the argument, nice try.

as for anti seize, his own video description reads "In this video I show you the danger of using anti-seize on your lug nuts (with a dry torque rating)". That's all there is to it. No more, no less.
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #25 on: Dec 08, 2018, 05:08:58 PM »
was not the argument, was never the argument, nice try.

as for anti seize, his own video description reads "In this video I show you the danger of using anti-seize on your lug nuts (with a dry torque rating)". That's all there is to it. No more, no less.


"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth." ~ Buddha

300k... look for the truth in the video.   :greengrin:

Gnarls.
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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #26 on: Dec 08, 2018, 05:26:00 PM »
"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth." ~ Buddha

300k... look for the truth in the video.   :greengrin:

Gnarls.

Ironic you would use that quote, as it's not even a real quotation. In today's world, that's called FAKE NEWS! :rofl2:
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #27 on: Dec 08, 2018, 06:10:05 PM »
Ironic you would use that quote, as it's not even a real quotation. In today's world, that's called FAKE NEWS! :rofl2:

Hahahahahhahahah!! Fake news... Fake Quotes!! Who knew Buddha was fake!! LOL.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #28 on: Dec 09, 2018, 08:12:56 AM »
watch LROR's video series on rebuilding a front axle on YouTube.
pound them in.

CB

They have some very nicely created videos!!  :thumbs:

Thanks for sharing that!  :beerchug:

Gnarls.  :gap:

****************

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Stuck Lug Nuts
« Reply #29 on: Dec 09, 2018, 06:30:09 PM »
also, looks as if 22RE Performance (You know, that shop that builds some of the best R series engines in the world) sells anti seize and says

"Recommended for any fastener that threads into aluminum (spark plugs, studs, bolts..etc). Also recommended on any fastener near coolant and for anything else you’d like to remove in the future (exhaust nuts, oxygen sensor nuts etc) that can rust or gall."

Now he doesn't say anything about lug nuts, but he does say he uses it on spark plugs...and for the reason I stated. Steel threading into aluminum can turn into a crappy situation. a lil anti seize never hurt anyone.
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

Truer words have never been spoken...

 
 
 
 
 

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