Author Topic: timing chain too long  (Read 2830 times)

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daddyof1234

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timing chain too long
« on: Jul 22, 2018, 06:02:17 PM »
I've a  Toyota 22re engine that was rebuilt. The timing chain "jumped" off the top sprocket after working fine for 5 months. I've bought 3 different chains, but all are too long. The 96 links chain is to short & the 98 links is to long. Does anyone have any suggestions on "fixing" this?

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #1 on: Jul 22, 2018, 07:19:56 PM »
sounds like you need a 97 link chain :gap:

do you know how much was taken off the block deck and cylinder head? Has the timing chain tensioner been replaced? How far is the tensioner plunger out? Who's timing chain are you buying?
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daddyof1234 [OP]

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #2 on: Jul 22, 2018, 07:31:31 PM »
Do they make a 97 links timing chain for Toyota 22re engines. My brother-in-law rebuilt the engine with an older block. I'm not sure how much was machined off or if any was machined off. The chain tensioner came apart after the engine was rebuilt & ran the 5 months. Yes I've a new tensioner.  The chain is so loose that the tensioner barely touches the chain. The tensioner is all the way out. The last chain was from Cloyer, i think that spelled right from O'reilley's.

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #3 on: Jul 22, 2018, 08:24:51 PM »
Do they make a 97 links timing chain for Toyota 22re engines. My brother-in-law rebuilt the engine with an older block. I'm not sure how much was machined off or if any was machined off. The chain tensioner came apart after the engine was rebuilt & ran the 5 months. Yes I've a new tensioner.  The chain is so loose that the tensioner barely touches the chain. The tensioner is all the way out. The last chain was from Cloyer, i think that spelled right from O'reilley's.

I'm pretty sure you need to be using the 96 link chain, as it's the one for the 1985-1995 22RE engines. The longer chain is for the 1983-1984 22R. As for installing the proper sized chain, it's not a "slip on" deal, it needs some gentle persuasion. LC Engineering has a good video about installing the chain. Skip to the 1 minute mark

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emsvitil

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #4 on: Jul 22, 2018, 08:46:06 PM »
Somebody here had a similar problem....

I think it ended up being that the head was machined wrong.


You wouldn't be using an early head on a late block or late head on a early block would you?

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Snowtoy

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #5 on: Jul 22, 2018, 09:27:49 PM »
My brother-in-law rebuilt the engine with an older block.

My guess is either the block and head aren't from the same generation, or this was your BIL's first 22r(e), and
 thinking the 96 was the wrong one because how tight the fit is, he went and got the 98 link one instead.

I've a  Toyota 22re engine that was rebuilt. The timing chain "jumped" off the top sprocket after working fine for 5 months. I've bought 3 different chains, but all are too long. The 96 links chain is to short & the 98 links is to long. Does anyone have any suggestions on "fixing" this?

With the chain jumping off the sprocket, you have more of an issue now than just the chain, the 22r is an interference engine, which
means you could have bent valves to go with the chain issue.  The head needs to come off and valves pulled and checked, which
will allow you to measure the head and the block and get an idea of what caused the issue.

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #6 on: Jul 22, 2018, 09:39:27 PM »
You can jump 2 teeth with the chain without making piston to valve contact.............

Been there done that...........
Ed
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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #7 on: Jul 22, 2018, 10:00:26 PM »
Is it even possible to get an engine working for 5 months if it has a mixed top and bottom end? I know he said it was an older block, but that's kinda open ended since the newest 22RE block is 23 years old :gap:

You should ID your block and cylinder head. If you have the spot for the turbo oil supply, you have the 1985-1995 engine block. (thing circled at the bottom)



To ID the head, you need to see if it has the round exhaust ports (1981-1984) or the pear shaped ones (1985-1995)




Did you count how many links were on the chain that jumped?
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daddyof1234 [OP]

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #8 on: Jul 23, 2018, 05:05:53 PM »
Yes sir I counted the links.

daddyof1234 [OP]

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #9 on: Jul 23, 2018, 05:17:55 PM »
I don't have the 22r engine. Mine is 22re. I'm not sure on the year of the head or block. He said that the engine is non-interference engine. I appreciate all of the replies. I'll/we'll figure out something to do with it.....

daddyof1234 [OP]

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #10 on: Jul 23, 2018, 05:20:46 PM »
The tensioner came apart & I think got caught in the chain to make it jump off the sprocket.

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #11 on: Jul 23, 2018, 05:53:13 PM »
22R vs 22RE is kinda like .223 vs 5.56 in a way. You have a the 17th rendition of the R engine, or the 22R. You also have electronic fuel injection, making it the 22RE. the 22R is an interference engine.

How many links were on the old chain? Have you been able to locate the turbo oil supply spot?
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daddyof1234 [OP]

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #12 on: Jul 23, 2018, 06:19:36 PM »
The old chain as the chain from the engine that came in the truck? I'm not sure. I haven't looked at the engine this evening. Maybe I can take a look at it tomorrow.

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #13 on: Jul 23, 2018, 06:36:02 PM »
The old chain as the chain from the engine that came in the truck? I'm not sure. I haven't looked at the engine this evening. Maybe I can take a look at it tomorrow.

the chain that jumped. or whatever chain was working for 5 months.
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Snowtoy

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #14 on: Jul 23, 2018, 11:08:09 PM »
The tensioner came apart & I think got caught in the chain to make it jump off the sprocket.

Did the chain come completely off the sprocket, or just jump a tooth?

Did your BIL take any pictures of the engine when he tore it down and rebuilt it?  They might help us figure out what you have.
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daddyof1234 [OP]

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #15 on: Jul 24, 2018, 04:47:43 PM »
The chain that was working has 98 links. The chain came off(jumped) the top sprocket & went to the back side of the sprocket. I did take a look at the engine block, it does have the thing on the block that is circled. It has 22R stamped in the small area  beside the block number(serial number)?

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #16 on: Jul 24, 2018, 05:22:40 PM »
The chain that was working has 98 links. The chain came off(jumped) the top sprocket & went to the back side of the sprocket. I did take a look at the engine block, it does have the thing on the block that is circled. It has 22R stamped in the small area  beside the block number(serial number)?

R is the series of the engine, 22 is like the variant. So you have a 22R with fuel injection...a 22RE. Any idea on the cylinder head? Looks like you need to buy the 96 and put it on as per that video.

Also while you're in there get some steel backed guides if you don't already have them.
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Snowtoy

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #17 on: Jul 24, 2018, 05:35:22 PM »
Ok, sounds like the block is an '89-'95, what year is the truck?.

I would go ahead and pull the exhaust manifold and see what the exhaust ports look like, that will tell you if you have a pre-'85 head, or need to have a discussion with your BIL about his mechanic skills.

With the chain having come completely off, you likely have a 1-2 or possibly more bent valves, depending the engine speed at which it came off, the head should come off, pulled down, inspected, machined, rebuilt, etc.
« Last Edit: Jul 27, 2018, 09:37:49 AM by Snowtoy »
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daddyof1234 [OP]

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #18 on: Jul 26, 2018, 06:47:09 PM »
I've tried two different 96 links chains, they are to short. You can't get the passenger chain guide on or the chain tensioner in place.

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #19 on: Jul 27, 2018, 09:58:55 AM »
Have you determined what head you have?

If have an '85-'95 head, then the only other reason why the 96 link chain wont fit is if they head gasket is to thick.

If you think the chain is supposed to slide on easily, it doesn't.

Have you tried it this way?


Have you set the pistons and head to top dead center?
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daddyof1234 [OP]

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #20 on: Jul 29, 2018, 04:46:57 PM »
I've put the timing chain with 96 links on & with it on the passenger side chain guide & the chain tensioner cannot be installed. the chain is to tight & there is no slack in the chain to install the guide or tensioner.

emsvitil

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #21 on: Jul 29, 2018, 04:55:16 PM »
Kinda sounds like you have early head on late block.

http://www.lcengineering.com/LCTechPages/techpages/TechNote48.htm
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daddyof1234 [OP]

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #22 on: Jul 29, 2018, 05:22:28 PM »
i think that's the case.

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #23 on: Jul 29, 2018, 09:23:00 PM »
the chain guide may be in the inward position or the block/deck has been machined to far, but it does not have an early head.

the early head is designed for a dome top piston, the late block is designed for a flat top piston, the domed piston will not work in a late block because the rist pin is farther from the deck at tdc, if you put a domed piston in an early block it would protrude to much

with a flat top piston in a chamber designed for a domed piston you wont have good enough compression
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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #24 on: Jul 29, 2018, 11:13:20 PM »
I've put the timing chain with 96 links on & with it on the passenger side chain guide & the chain tensioner cannot be installed. the chain is to tight & there is no slack in the chain to install the guide or tensioner.

Post a pic, if you have the guides on, the tensioner should fit.
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daddyof1234 [OP]

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #25 on: Jul 30, 2018, 05:28:20 PM »
I'll try to download some pics of the timing chain, guides, & tensioner when I get them.

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #26 on: Jul 30, 2018, 05:29:38 PM »
The chain that was working has 98 links. The chain came off(jumped) the top sprocket & went to the back side of the sprocket. I did take a look at the engine block, it does have the thing on the block that is circled. [/b[It has 22R stamped in the small area  beside the block number(serial number)?
you have the later "shorter deck" block meant for flat top pistons and should have a head with pear shaped exhaust ports.  your bil isnt a Toyota mechanic.
pull that early 22R head off and get a 22RE head and then get a 96 link chain.   If that engine ran for 5 months I can't believe it made more that 70hp if that.
and YES a 20R, 22R and 22RE are  all INTERFERENCE engines.  BUT with the 85 plus block that you DO have and the early head that you obviously have the valves would probably never touch the pistons.   it might now be a noninterference engine but its NOT SUPPOSED to be and will never work correctly.

if you don't have a source for a good 22RE (yours might be a carb but its still the same 22RE head and block just a different intake) then try engnbldr never mind they are out,  try a salvage yard or any machine shop and get a 85-95 22RE head.

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daddyof1234 [OP]

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #27 on: Jul 31, 2018, 04:00:23 PM »
The latest information I have is the head is a 1992 model & the block is 1983 model.

emsvitil

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #28 on: Jul 31, 2018, 04:07:12 PM »
So it's a early block, late head and not late block, early head...

You found your problem.
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daddyof1234 [OP]

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Re: timing chain too long
« Reply #29 on: Jul 31, 2018, 04:55:45 PM »
So this combination is not compatible?

 
 
 
 
 

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