Author Topic: Another valve adjustment done  (Read 3350 times)

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fasterspider

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Another valve adjustment done
« on: Apr 17, 2018, 12:13:22 PM »
I'm going to Calico this weekend with the Frazier Park 4x4/International Scouts West club this weekend so I did the usual along with a quick valve adjust, something I always enjoy doing.
All 4 intakes were loose while 2 exhaust valves were too loose and 2 too tight.
All is swell now, shes ready to go.
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Gnarly4X

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #1 on: Apr 19, 2018, 05:52:51 AM »
In the 22R’s and 22RE’s….it’s been my experience that the valve lash adjustment is more critical for engine performance with camshaft profiles that are aftermarket and typically spec a longer duration and higher lift than factory stock.  Also, the valve lash setting seems to be more critical on 22RE than carb’d engine.  I assume the ECU and the reporting sensors are more “sensitive” to the valve opening and closing events, and cam timing.

For example, with my newly rebuilt 22RE and 261C cam, if the valve lash goes tight on intake rockers by only .002” from spec’d .007, it will increase the overlap from 5.3 degrees to 5.5 degrees. That is about 4% increase.  In my 22RE, that increase is enough to cause a rough idle and a misfire.   The 22RE stock cam has an overlap of 2.5 degrees.

Of course, the valve lash is important otherwise the tolerance of the setting would not be exact and in thousandths of inches.  Keeping the valve lash accurate on these engines may be too often overlooked.  When I have spent time adjusting the lash, I usually end up with several adjustments before I’m happy with the throttle response and infamous rocker tick, which I attempt to get a smooth even sound out of all 8 rockers.

That’s just my opinion, it may be worthless.  :blah:

Gnarls  :gap:
« Last Edit: Apr 19, 2018, 06:13:29 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #2 on: Apr 19, 2018, 11:08:01 AM »
Valve lash is critical in any 4 stroke engine, period.
I've been adjusting shim over bucket valves for a long time and when I get to do screw & locknut adjustments it is a better experience for me so I like to keep my valves lashed as recommended even if there is an ever so slight tick from the tappet because the manufacturer deemed it to be there. My valve train is fairly quiet.
Too loose and they don't open all the way so performance suffers, too tight and they will either burn or mushroom or both and again, performance suffers.
Most of my experience adjusting valves is motorcycle related and the performance before and after is always night and day, one valve out of 16 in a DOHC head can screw up how the engine runs.
My Yota was sounding loose up top and tomorrow I'm putting a bunch of freeway miles on the rig to get to Calico, fuel consumption along the way is really important to me so I did all I could do to enhance the mileage she'll get and that valve adjustment was part of it.
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Slabzilla

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #3 on: Apr 19, 2018, 12:11:00 PM »
I agree with both of you.  You can "get away with" lack of adjustment more often on the 22r's, if you don't mind the noise but the 22RE's Need to be on spec to make the ECM happy.  I just prefer to keep the "Klackers" quiet and performance and milage at their best.  Engines last longer that way anyhow. Have a great trip, my Club is due for it's Calico Run next month.   :thumbs:
'85 Xtra-cab, 4.5" Downey Off-Road lift, 12-15 KM2's on American Racing Baja's, 4.10's, 4.7's, Downey Off-Road CAI, Marlin rear bumper & sliders

Lewis Hein

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #4 on: Apr 19, 2018, 12:57:24 PM »
My 22R ran for several months after I got the truck with no valve lash at all.  :shake_head: It wasn't so bad that I realized there was a major problem, but I had noticeably more torque coming out of the engine after adjusting them to spec. So I'd agree that the carbed engines are a bit more forgiving in the short term.

fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2018, 03:05:44 PM »
So I kept hearing noise from the top end even though I adjusted the valves 3 times, turns out the cam chain stretched beyond tolerance and it has a plastic guide that has failed.

I ordered a 22RE Performance single row chain set that arrived today and almost have the timing cover off but, the sun got overwhelmingly hot and I almost went down from said heat, my lungs are bad so I wear out easy even though I quit them cigs 16 years ago.
Anyway, I wish I would have pressure washed the front of the engine before I got started, the regular dirty ol mud is caked everywhere and annoying me.
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fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2018, 07:54:29 PM »

I have the new chain & goodies in place and need to close it up, was easier to take it apart than it was to clean the baked on mud off of the cam chain cover and that oil pan was no pleasure to clean either but, it is clean now and goes back on tomorrow morning.
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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2018, 12:14:34 AM »
After about 80k miles, my 22RE valve gaps pretty much quit changing...............................
Ed
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22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2018, 10:39:32 AM »
After about 80k miles, my 22RE valve gaps pretty much quit changing...............................
It turned out to not be the valves, the 5000 mile old cam chain from Chickety Chow Chinese Chicken was stretched way beyond tolerance so I put a 22RE Performance chain set and will close it up today when the clouds burn off, they've been misting on us all morning and everything is soaked.
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fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2018, 10:13:55 PM »
All this has led to me buying an engbldr RV cam that will be here this week and oh yeah, Engbldr is back in business again, sick family had him close his doors then he had to relocate but, all is back to normal now.
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fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2018, 03:06:19 PM »
All this has led to me buying an engbldr RV cam that will be here this week and oh yeah, Engbldr is back in business again, sick family had him close his doors then he had to relocate but, all is back to normal now.
Engbldr cam arrived today, going to install it in a few minutes.
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Gnarly4X

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2018, 09:32:42 AM »
Engbldr cam arrived today, going to install it in a few minutes.


Which cam and what are the specs?.. valve lash, etc.?  :greengrin:

Why did you decide on THAT cam?   :greengrin:

Just curious.  :gap:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2018, 12:03:43 PM »
It is a smog legal RV cam and smog legal is why I picked it.
It is the 261C crawler cam and my reason for buying it is my truck can not get up the I-5 freeway without having to drop her down into 3rd gear and crawling @ 45 mph.
I don't have actual lift and duration specs, I am going by the seat of the pants recommendation because my buddy has the same cam in his 22R and the thing hauls ass even with a full 1000 pound load of scrap in the bed.
I need my rig to not have to work so hard to get up a hill.
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fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2018, 09:08:59 PM »

New lce exhaust studs because I have had them for 3 years waiting for an opportunity to use them.

That opportunity arose today when the very last stud near the firewall gauled the threads in the head so I had to chase those threads and use a new stud I just happened to have 8 of, sweet.
The light ran out with dusk and my buddy forgot to bring me home that new supply of assembly lube for my new camshaft so I have wait until mañana anyway.
Good night Irene.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 07:41:37 AM by fasterspider »
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Gnarly4X

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2018, 10:40:42 AM »
From my historical research and the feedback from the guys who’ve swapped in the 261C, it should work very well in a carb’d 22.  I do not have a direct comparison.

Based on the 261C’s tight valve lash spec (.007 and .009), with more degrees of overlap, in a 22RE it *may* upset MammaECU and her sensors.  I’m not sure at this point in my engine 22RE that this cam profile is the best choice.  It does pull very strong from off idle through 4500 RPMs through 3rd gear. My cam comparison software data shows this cam will produce its peak torque between 3100 to 3500 RPMs

This cam, like many other cams, has a wide range of anecdotal performance results (and some possible quality issues), as commented by the guys who have installed it.

I have a 4:56 ring & pinions and a 5-speed, 30” tires, so my RPM is right in the sweet spot for the torque I want at freeway speeds.  5th gear, 3200 RPMs is 79 MPH.

Swapping in this cam with a stock exhaust system will most likely produce a minimal increase in throttle response and butt dyno torque and HP results over the factory stock cam.  Your gas mileage may or may not change, but if the engine is producing more power, it’s probably going to be burning more gas.

I am interested to learn how this cam works for your engine.

Gnarls  :blah:
« Last Edit: Jun 30, 2018, 04:37:41 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2018, 01:58:30 PM »
I am also looking forward to butt dyno results.
That I-5 Grapevine is killer going up hill and to get my good wheeling in, that is the direction I have to go most times so, we will see next week when my rig is done again how she performs going uphill.
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fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2018, 02:39:25 PM »
I made so many mistakes installing the new cam chain that I have thoroughly disgusted myself.
1st thing I did wrong was buy all the Snap-On tools all those years ago and think I could be a mechanic.
When I put the cam chain in initially I screwed up by one tooth off on the crank so I opened her back up again and fixed the issue with the cam timing but, broke the head gasket when I put the timing cover back on and didn't realize it until the engine oil was pouring out of the head above the timing cover.
Again I took it apart and this time took the head off to replace the broken head gasket and installed an Engbldr RV cam. While I was in there I cleaned the mating surfaces for the two gaskets and test fit said gaskets then removed them to not break them while futzing around with other things for a minute then put the timing cover back on.
This was the mistake that broke the camel's back, I plainly forgot to put the gaskets back on the dowel pins but, applied the cover anyway. Oil and coolant only cost a shitload now a days but, it's only money, right? 😣
I have the radiator back in place now and have to rewire my auxiliary fans and pod lights before I can put the grille back on.
I hope I got it right this time, I can see new gaskets and crank seal and everything is torqued in proper. 😐
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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2018, 02:50:06 PM »
That's a bummer, sorry to hear.
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 04:05:35 PM »
One time I wrecked a fresh motor because I used a timing cover with the dowel pin in it and the engine block also had the same dowel pin. The original timing cover was almost worn through by a timing chain, so I used a good one.  It actually sealed up for about 100 miles from the FIPG I used, then it dumped coolant in my oil and wiped out my rods and mains.

I yanked it out and rebuilt it in the kitchen of our rental, for the second time.  Now I always check dowel pins for redundancy.  Stupid stuff happens.  It's how we learn.
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fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2018, 06:33:40 PM »
I took my skills for granted again, when that happens, :pokinit: hits the fan in one way or another.
I have her all back together again and tightly this time but, I spilled most of my coolant the other day and have to wait for the wife to get home with the car so I can go get more.
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Gnarly4X

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2018, 05:18:02 AM »
I took my skills for granted again, when that happens, :pokinit: hits the fan in one way or another.

I have acquired knowledge, skills, and tools.

If I lack knowledge, my skills are worthless.

If I lack skills, my knowledge is worthless.

If I lack tools, my knowledge and my skills are worthless.

That’s just my opinion – it may be worthless.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #21 on: Jun 11, 2018, 08:27:40 PM »
36 days later and my truck finally runs without pissing oil or coolant but, there isn't any coolant in her yet, just oil and gas. Anyway, she started and then actually idled. I haven't timed her yet, lost the light and it is too dark to do that now.
Working on my truck in the afternoon is done until October, the sun is way too powerful to stand in it working.
Anyway, mañana I will put the radiator back in and rewire my accessory fans to work with the switch on the dash and not just unplugging the fuse.
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fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #22 on: Jun 13, 2018, 10:32:59 AM »
When I was tearing down the top end to get the head off, a bolt for the emmisions pipes on the manifold broke off and I tried running the truck anyway, did not work.
I pulled the manifold and did a Time-Sert thread repair.

Here in Cali, I have no choice and have to repair the emmisions equipment or take my truck off the road and I'm not taking my truck off the road.
Time-Sert kits are the best I've worked with and I'll never use a coil repair kit because that is just wrong.
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fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #23 on: Jun 19, 2018, 06:50:24 PM »
BTW, my truck runs again and she feels a bit more umphy and the idle dropped to 800 rpm from the 1000 I had it at to keep it running before I swapped out the cam.
Of course the 3 year old remanufactured starter motor failed the other day so I had to buy a new starter today and she fired off instantly which was awesome.
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fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #24 on: Jun 25, 2018, 10:46:16 AM »
After almost 2 months I finally have the truck running well.
A new cam chain, new camshaft and a new oil pump but, turns out the new oil pump was bad and did not have enough oil pressure to charge the cam chain tensioner. A sloppy chain does more than just stretch prematurely, it caused the cam sprocket bolt to back out so the sprocket came off the cam. It did not drop in and the chain did not break but, the engine did stop and we needed a flatbed ride home with AAA.
I thought the chain broke and ordered stuff, didn't need half of it.
Used the head gasket and new Japanese made oil pump.
The oil pump I put in was brand new out of the bag but, it did not feel right when I installed it but, I used it anyway and the sounds from the engine were terrible. The oil pressure was only 30psi under load but, the old oil pump gave me 80psi under load so there's the problem.
The new Aisen oil pump is delivering 60psi during warm up that dropped to 50psi @ regular idle, we have oil pressure.
I do not like working on my truck, it is too big. I'm a motorcycle mechanic and the bikes I work on dont have coolant. My truck is the coolest toy to play with but, a damned drag to work on.
She is running again and should pass smog next year too, she is finally a proper Toyota again.
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fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #25 on: Jun 29, 2018, 08:38:23 AM »
I can finally report success, the new cam is pretty sweet and my truck is running great again. I cannot wait to hit a trail.
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fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #26 on: Jun 29, 2018, 07:44:48 PM »
I had the vacuum lines mixed up and the diagram under the hood hasn't been legible as long as I've had the truck so I googled the diagram and came up with this.

I ordered some new silicone vacuum line, grabbed the cutters and got busy.
The truck idles better now than she has ever idled since I bought it 4 years ago.
I'm not in a hurry to upgrade to a 2.7 now, she moves like she is supposed to move with enough power to keep me from buying a twin cam engine.
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EASYRYDERDANGER

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #27 on: Jun 30, 2018, 06:28:36 PM »
Did you just say low oil pressure caused your cam bolt to back out, Ill let that slide, lol. No oil to chain tensioner, either severe block like FIPG stuck in or more commonly the tensioner bolts are over torqued and cause tensioner body to pinch the tensioner piston. 

fasterspider [OP]

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #28 on: Jun 30, 2018, 08:48:09 PM »
Did you just say low oil pressure caused your cam bolt to back out, Ill let that slide, lol. No oil to chain tensioner, either severe block like FIPG stuck in or more commonly the tensioner bolts are over torqued and cause tensioner body to pinch the tensioner piston.
My failure to use thread locker was the real problem but, I have put that bolt in to a camshaft three separate times without Locktite and never had a problem with the bolt getting loose.
This time, the oil pump was bad so the engine was vibrating badly and the bolt backed out. The tensioner does work off of oil pressure and with no oil pressure, things got interesting to say the least.
New oil pump made in Japan solved everything, there is no more vibration because there is oil pressure now.
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EASYRYDERDANGER

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Re: Another valve adjustment done
« Reply #29 on: Jun 30, 2018, 09:01:28 PM »
I know its controlled by oil pressure. So ur saying u had no oil pressure and u didn't tear in to it until your timing chain rattled the cam sprocket loose then the engine stopped. The bottom end survived this? I'm sorry dude, u had a rough go it sounds like.  I think you also have to look out for wrong length bolts on oil pump. Some can be swapped around and are too long, they end up bottoming out on the pump internals...  I got the modified LC oil pump, it was much better than stock, oem pressure gauge always stays above just under 1/2 mark instead of dropping to 1/8-1/4 mark.  Good luck, hopefully you don't have to come back to this thread
« Last Edit: Jul 01, 2018, 08:51:35 AM by EASYRYDERDANGER »

 
 
 
 
 

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