Author Topic: Toybrota's 22R build  (Read 26025 times)

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EASYRYDERDANGER

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #180 on: Oct 31, 2018, 06:32:35 PM »
Looks good!  I can tell you are making an angry engine with that food dish empty!

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #181 on: Nov 01, 2018, 05:03:40 AM »
AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #182 on: Nov 01, 2018, 07:39:49 AM »
Looks good!  I can tell you are making an angry engine with that food dish empty!

That's the dog's dish!  Haahahahahhaha..

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #183 on: Nov 01, 2018, 07:45:40 AM »
Here's how she sits.


I would paint the exhaust manifold super hi-temp orange.  I would NOT use those self-locking nuts on the head studs.  I like the gray color of the block engine… way better to see any potential leaks.  I screwed up and painted my block black…. Dumb.

Looking good!!!

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #184 on: Nov 01, 2018, 09:59:19 AM »
Thanks! I will not be painting the manifold, it never works well. I'm using the locking nuts that came with with my stud kit from LCE, they are not the stock style. Just flange nuts.
I would paint the exhaust manifold super hi-temp orange.  I would NOT use those self-locking nuts on the head studs.  I like the gray color of the block engine… way better to see any potential leaks.  I screwed up and painted my block black…. Dumb.

Looking good!!!

Gnarls.

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Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #185 on: Nov 01, 2018, 10:00:18 AM »
I sure hope you are ordering a Marlin 1200 clutch.
https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/heavy-duty/clutch-hilux/1981-88-4cyl-1200-lb-clutch-kit
Little late! Ordered th LCE street clutch kit today, it's like $110. I believe Exedy (Is that the brand?) Makes the kit. I'm prepared to eat crow if it's a trash kit, but I doubt it.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #186 on: Nov 01, 2018, 12:23:31 PM »
Ha, that's the dogs waterdish.
My Father actually makes the food for the dog at Home every other weekend, buys the meat and all the barley and vegetables. Eats better than I do!
Looks good!  I can tell you are making an angry engine with that food dish empty!

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Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #187 on: Nov 01, 2018, 05:56:25 PM »
Looks like I'll be Helicoiling (Is that even a word?) One or two of the intake Mandi stud holes, the two studs that I had to extract with a welded nut messed up the holes. I figure a Heli-coil won't be a bad fix, if anything it'll be stronger?
The price on the Heli-Coil kits kinda baffles me, the prices are extreme. $25 for the M8 and then $40-60 for the M10? Come on...

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emsvitil

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #188 on: Nov 01, 2018, 06:06:12 PM »
Use threaded inserts, they're cheaper than helicoils (and stronger too).
Ed
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Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #189 on: Nov 01, 2018, 09:50:54 PM »
I should've bought them. Oh well, let's see if I can make the Heli-Coil work.
Use threaded inserts, they're cheaper than helicoils (and stronger too).

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #190 on: Nov 04, 2018, 11:45:04 AM »
So I got the engine pulled this weekend, what an easy yet satisfying task!

I tore the motor down, removed the carb and intake. Everything came off.

Now I have an empty engine bay, and my plans on Saturday whats next.
Clutch comes this week, I still need to order several small items from LCE.

I've decided that I'm gonna de-smog this motor completely. I've already installed the EGR cooler plate and I'll be completely blocking the EGR off. I'm also going to block off the air injection systems.
All emissions and vaccum lines are going to come off, with the exception of a few things.
I'm keeping the BVSV in the center of the head, this works with the AAP and choke and without it it won't run correctly cold. The PCV will remain as well as the front breather.
I'm also going to keep the hose going to the distributor, as it's also important. All other vaccum switches and what not, are going to go.
It's important to note that the truck doesn't have a HAC, so those will already be blocked.
I debated running a Weber, but since I've heard they are a pain to get to run correctly, I figured I'd run the stock carb.
My 85' XtraCab also has no HAC, and runs well at sea level all the way to 12,000 + feet in Colorado. Never ceases to start.


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Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #191 on: Nov 04, 2018, 05:11:33 PM »
To ensure that the de-smogging that I'll do will work, I did it to my XtraCab today. I'm only running hoses for the distributor and BVSV. I removed the front Charcoal canister as well. Runs great! Seems to start better as well. So after this test, I can confirm that the carb will run the way I want it to. Awesome!

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #192 on: Nov 05, 2018, 04:01:29 AM »
Hey T,

I appreciate and enjoy your thread and posting up all your updates, photos, and detailing your candid comments on experiences as you complete the rebuild.  Great job!  :thumbs:

I am curious about how your rebuild runs.  I’d love to see the compression numbers right before you fire the engine for the break in.  Then see them again after a couple hundred miles on your break-in.

What octane gas do you plan to burn?

What is your elevation?

Thanks,

Gnarls. :gap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #193 on: Nov 06, 2018, 04:30:16 PM »
Thanks, I appreciate it. Elevation, right around 4800 feet. I plan to run 87 it higher, as my owners manual recommends.
Hey T,

I appreciate and enjoy your thread and posting up all your updates, photos, and detailing your candid comments on experiences as you complete the rebuild.  Great job!  :thumbs:

I am curious about how your rebuild runs.  I’d love to see the compression numbers right before you fire the engine for the break in.  Then see them again after a couple hundred miles on your break-in.

What octane gas do you plan to burn?

What is your elevation?

Thanks,

Gnarls. :gap:

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #194 on: Nov 06, 2018, 04:42:04 PM »
I've got some questions about the intake manifold.

First one is surfacing, how should I go about cleaning the gasket surfaces? The main surfaces I'm concerned about are the EGR gasket and the manifold surface itself.
I went after it with some Acetone and a Scotch bright pad, and I wasn't super successful.
I know the dangers of abrasive materials on aluminum, so I won't use anything insane.
I called a machine shop and they quoted me $80 to resurface it. Would this be considered worth it?

My other option is to get a sanding block and some sand paper and surface it myself. I don't however have a precision square, so I can't check my work. I've heard of people using a pane of glass to check straightness?

Also, I can't get the damn temp sensor out. It is a 17MM, but it just rounded off. It is brass so I can't complain too much.
I've attacked it with vice grips and it's just destroyed it, what's the best way to get this out?

The only vaccum switch on this motor that I'm running will be the center BVSV for the AAP and choke. I am thinking about moving it to a hole by the thermostat, since it's the same thread size. There isn't an issue with this since it's just a vaccum switch.






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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #195 on: Nov 06, 2018, 08:50:21 PM »
You will probably have to heat up the temp sender and the general area with a torch pretty flippin' hot.  Then bite on it HARD with the vise grips and say a quick prayer before you twist on it. 

If you want the gasket surface cleaner I would use some 400 grit on a piece of 2x4 or other flat block or surface. Don't take much, just enough to get it clean. Never had a problem with that method.  Also I like to use the copper adhesive spray on the intake gaskets.
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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #196 on: Nov 07, 2018, 05:56:31 AM »
You will probably have to heat up the temp sender and the general area with a torch pretty flippin' hot.  Then bite on it HARD with the vise grips and say a quick prayer before you twist on it. 

If you want the gasket surface cleaner I would use some 400 grit on a piece of 2x4 or other flat block or surface. Don't take much, just enough to get it clean. Never had a problem with that method.  Also I like to use the copper adhesive spray on the intake gaskets.

I would be VERY careful applying heat to the manifold.  I would use a propane torch and try heating the manifold slightly.

I cleaned up my intake manifold mounting surface with some 320 grit sandpaper on a flat block of wood.  I only sanded it to just clean up the mounting surface.  I did NOT use any sealer on the intake manifold gasket.  I don't know if that is the best way or the wrong way to install the manifold on the head?

Metal T-square.... great for looking at flat surfaces:

https://www.zoro.com/stanley-carpenters-square-steel-24-x-16-in-45-500/i/G6104743/feature-product?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1pGiubfC3gIVC39-Ch2jlQwqEAQYBSABEgIcN_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Here's an interesting demonstration on cleaning and resurfacing the manifold mounting surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw9c0ydogqs

Of course, I don't have big band sander!!

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #197 on: Nov 07, 2018, 06:55:43 AM »
I would be VERY careful applying heat to the manifold.  I would use a propane torch and try heating the manifold slightly.

I cleaned up my intake manifold mounting surface with some 320 grit sandpaper on a flat block of wood.  I only sanded it to just clean up the mounting surface.  I did NOT use any sealer on the intake manifold gasket.  I don't know if that is the best way or the wrong way to install the manifold on the head?

Metal T-square.... great for looking at flat surfaces:

https://www.zoro.com/stanley-carpenters-square-steel-24-x-16-in-45-500/i/G6104743/feature-product?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1pGiubfC3gIVC39-Ch2jlQwqEAQYBSABEgIcN_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Here's an interesting demonstration on cleaning and resurfacing the manifold mounting surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw9c0ydogqs

Of course, I don't have big band sander!!

Gnarls.
Slight heat, gotcha. Last thing I wanna do is braze the brass to the aluminum.
380-400 grit sounds great.
I have a metal combination square that I use for welding, I'll have to give it a shot. I was worried about accuracy so that's why I never used it.

Sanding sounds like a good idea, I was worried about how straight it'd be but if I do it right I should get a good surface.




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Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #198 on: Nov 10, 2018, 04:32:23 PM »
Alright, so I definitely haven't made any progress on the intake. I've done everything I can with the temp sender, and it has gotten to this.
There's nothing left to grab with vice grips. I've heated it up super hot, tried punches... Everything.
Not like I can drill it out since it's a Toyota only thread pitch if I'm not mistaken. Should I get ANOTHER intake?

As far as the surfacing, I'm gonna by a small sized pane of glass and use some spray adhesive to glue some sandpaper to the glass.

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EASYRYDERDANGER

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #199 on: Nov 10, 2018, 06:40:07 PM »
Or just use some wd40 and a sand block with 400 grit

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #200 on: Nov 10, 2018, 06:50:49 PM »
Should I get ANOTHER intake?

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First try drilling it out a size smaller than the thread. There is so little left that it should loosen up enough to be able to back out with a easy out. If not, it's brass and you can break it apart. I have done this a few times on random bolts and has been able to save the hole.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #201 on: Nov 10, 2018, 09:26:26 PM »
Carbide bit (1/8" Dremel size) and section it into pieces.
Ed
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22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #202 on: Nov 29, 2018, 03:59:16 PM »
Thought I'd give an update on the build.

I ended up purchasing another intake from a member here, he removed all the plugs and broken bolts leaving me with a blank intake essentially.

Today I surfaced it and cleaned it. For surfacing, I bought a $20 granite slab and used a spray Adhesive to attach some 320 (and later 400) grit sandpaper. I figured the straightest large surface I can get my hands on is either granite, or glass. I used a flat machined straight edge to test it's flatness, no rocking at all.

This worked flawlessly! I used a sharpie to draw over the gasket surface so as I sand it, I can see the low spots. This also worked fantastic! I am left with a clean ready to install intake. I am not using silicone on the inake gasket, as it won't need it.


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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #203 on: Nov 30, 2018, 06:06:27 PM »
Friday update.

Today I bolted on the intake, I used new hardware from LCE. Had to Helicoil 3 bolt holes. All torqued down fine.
I cleaned the intake very well before I bolted in on. I bolted the center head water plate on, this is for the heater core pipe. I am also using this for the top BVSV for the carb so it functions in the cold properly.
I need to get a new O-ring for the heater pipe,ni bought a kit from harbor Freight that has metric O-rings. I don't trust the O-ring in the kit because it's not an exact fit. I can just buy one online, which I still need to buy some stuff from LCE. They sell it.

I ran the coolant line from the bottom of the intake to the timing cover. This is often blocked off, but I don't want to interrupt coolant flow. I put a 3/8npt to 3/8npt female adapter in the hole, and put the stock hose adapter in. This points it differently so it doesn't have a bend like the stock hose. Looks much cleaner.

I bolted on both EGR block plates, the one on the intake got silicone sealant as I didn't have a gasket. No fluids, just holds vaccum. Should be no issue.


Engine is basically ready to go in, I have a small list left.

- Transmission input seal/gasket
- rear main install
- clutch install/flywheel
- carb install
- pick-up tube install

Very few things, I'm excited to get it finished.
It won't get installed until the spring, as the weather isn't very inviting.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #204 on: Dec 01, 2018, 07:53:45 AM »
Friday update.


Engine is basically ready to go in, I have a small list left.

- Transmission input seal/gasket
- rear main install
- clutch install/flywheel
- carb install
- pick-up tube install


Transmission input seal/gasket - I would only install Toyota factory seal and use this on seal cover bolts: https://www.permatex.com/products/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-thread-sealant-with-ptfe/

and this one for the gasket:  https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-series-gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-grey-rigid-high-torque-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker-2/

- rear main install - Toyota factory only.

TIP:  If you remove the input shaft seal housing with gear oil in the transmission, you should tilt the tranny back about 45 degrees so the gear oil doesn't drain out of the bottom bolt holes.  If you use the bolt sealer, let it cure over night or 24 hours before letting the gear lube contact the bolts - keep it tilted.

That's just my opinion - it may be worthless.


Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Dec 01, 2018, 08:03:23 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #205 on: Dec 01, 2018, 08:13:19 AM »
Yep, the seal I am using is Toyota. The gasket is as well, and it's actually discontinued. They don't make it anymore. But, the Jeep AX5 is the brother to the G52 and the bearing retainer on it is the same for the Toyota. I bought my gasket from Toyota parts dealer.com, they have everything. Including brand new frames for 80's trucks. Yeah, they have everything.

I am using permatex thread sealant, that's what I used on my XtraCab. For silicone, I may put some on.  Since I have a new gasket I may just clean the surfaces with Acetone and put it together without silicone

Transmission is getting new synthetic gear oil. Anyone recommend a good brand? I know redline MT-90 is the cats Pajamas, but I can't fork out that much right now.

Rear main is also a Toyota seal. Had a machine shop install the seal saver with their tool. Using silicone on the rear main seal holder with the gasket.
Transmission input seal/gasket - I would only install Toyota factory seal and use this on seal cover bolts: https://www.permatex.com/products/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-thread-sealant-with-ptfe/

and this one for the gasket:  https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-series-gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-grey-rigid-high-torque-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker-2/

- rear main install - Toyota factory only.

TIP:  If you remove the input shaft seal housing with gear oil in the transmission, you should tilt the tranny back about 45 degrees so the gear oil doesn't drain out of the bottom bolt holes.  If you use the bolt sealer, let it cure over night or 24 hours before letting the gear lube contact the bolts - keep it tilted.

That's just my opinion - it may be worthless.


Gnarls.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #206 on: Dec 01, 2018, 03:45:58 PM »
I prefer hylomar for sealing the tranny front seal gasket.

Ed
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22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #207 on: Dec 02, 2018, 03:50:56 AM »
I prefer hylomar for sealing the tranny front seal gasket.



I don't have any experience with Hylomar, but like most sealants, it usually comes down to a matter of opinion, and you can find lots of discussions on empirical opinions.  Since Marlin recommends Permatex Ultra Grey

https://www.marlincrawler.com/hardware-tools/chemicals/silicone-ultra-gray

and he has put together more Toyota cases than most anyone around, I just defer to his experience.  :thumbs:

Hylomar is a well-known mil-spec product, so it's good stuff, and of course, they are very proud of it... $$$$$$$!!  :yikes:

Gnarls. :blah:
« Last Edit: Dec 02, 2018, 04:12:43 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #208 on: Dec 02, 2018, 04:01:39 AM »

Transmission is getting new synthetic gear oil. Anyone recommend a good brand? I know redline MT-90 is the cats Pajamas, but I can't fork out that much right now.


I've tried a number of oils and gear lubes.  In the VW transaxles in my sand rails, I ran 40w motor oil.  The buggy only weighed 900 lbs.

I tried 20w-50 Castrol Synthetic (recommended by my tranny shop) in my 85 5-speed back when I was getting some odd gear noise.  I ran Redline MTL - Redline recommended it - and really noticed a difference in shifts on my newly rebuilt W56B 5-speed.  No doubt it is good stuff!

This time I used Mobil 1 :

https://mobiloil.com/en/gear-lubricants/mobil-1-synthetic-gear-lube-ls

I can really tell the difference in the shifts from just the non-synthetic 75-90 I was running.  Mobil 1 is noticeably smoother and less notchy, especially on down shifts.  The price per quart is way less the Redline, and it's readily available almost everywhere.  I'd bet that I could not tell the difference between Redline and Mobil 1, and I doubt that my tranny will either.  :gap:

Gnarls. :blah:

« Last Edit: Dec 02, 2018, 04:07:25 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #209 on: Dec 02, 2018, 04:24:24 AM »
Last time I bought hylomar, the cheapest I could find it (believe it or not) was at the Harley Davidson dealer...……..

Permatex used to sell it, but quit years and years ago.    Permatex started making a hylomar equivalent which I've bought to try on less critical spots (saving my remaining hylomar for those spots like the gasket on the tranny input shaft)
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

 
 
 
 
 

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