Topic: The all-new 1990 Daihatsu Rocky

[Lewis Hein]

The engine was fired, because although I realized that there might be moisture in the oil, I didn't realize the extent of the problem. The engine was not, however run for more than 30 minutes total, at the outside. I drained the coolant, what there was of it, and it looked normal (I.E., no oil). However, I wasn't particularly looking for oil. I'm probably going to give it the standard two oil changes in quick succession.

I am still trying to figure out how I'm going to do a compression check on this vehicle. The spark plugs are way down at the bottom of 6-8" long tubes, where tightening the compression gauge fittings will be impossible. Probably, I'll just buy a long pipe and calculate how much that will reduce the compression.

I question the condition of this engine, and that's part of the reason I've been toying with the idea of an engine swap from day 1. The other part is that it's a high-revving engine without much low-end power. Even though the reduction in 4 low is supposedly 34:1 compared to 37:1 on the Toyota, I have to rev it up so much that it feels like driving my Toyota in 2-high.

[Gnarly4X]

...
In any case, I think there is an engine swap someday in this vehicle's future.

You and the other "Rocky" fans, have probably already read this.  It has some very interesting information on potential engine swaps.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/newbie-general-4x4-discussion/1707098-best-modern-4-banger-engine-swap-1990-daihatsu-rocky.html

Gnarls.

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Update on the grinding noise: On careful inspection, the grinding noise is front tires rubbing, not the CV joints. So.... I think it must be running aftermarket rims and bigger tires

[utherjorge]

Mine came to me with 235s on it, which are a good amount larger than stock. I have driven it at, oh, 60mph with no rubbing, but it was pretty straight. I do need new balljoints, so any noise I attributed to that.

Body lift should solve the rub problem; I think it's my first order of business.

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Body lift should solve the rub problem; I think it's my first order of business.

Either that, or go back to stock-sized rims and tires. That's probably going to be what I do.

[THK Matt]

totally digging these rocky threads. I remember a kid in high school had one and I always wondered what the hell it was.

[H8PVMNT]

Yeah these are cool little buggers.  I don't think you would have to get to huge to be capable with one.  A build might take a bit of ingenuity though.

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Took a test drive the mile to my mailbox and back today. Or rather, took a test drive to the mailbox and partway back today. Then the engine just suddenly died.

My favorite hypothesis is clogged injectors. It did, after all, sit for a year and a half. And now, when I try to start it, I have to crank for a minute and a half. Then it runs on two cylinders for another minute or so until the other two start running. Power, especially below 2500 rpm, is a joke. To me, this all spells bad injectors. It also spells "Carbs are better than EFI when you're trying to fix a 27 year old vehicle on the cheap"


Lewis
P.S. Anyone here used Injector RX? I like what they say.

[emsvitil]

Fuel filter and/or strainer sock in tank.............

[H8PVMNT]

Yeah drain the tank even and rinse it out.  Then fuel filter, or two .  Man you get all the luck with old trucks and cobwebs don't you?

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Update: I got to NAPA today and bought a $20 fuel filter. After installing it, I took the Rocky for the mile run to the mailbox and back, without even getting stranded. Also, I can turn on AC without bogging down the engine too much, and I no longer need to rev the engine to keep it from dying when I steer at idle and the power steering kicks in. Progress!

I still need to send the injectors to Injector RX, 'cause it's not running quite as well as I think it should. And I need to get an aftermarket coolant temperature gauge and install it. Other than that, this Rocky is getting so boring. Boring, as in it might not land me in many "interesting" situations.

[Gnarly4X]

....  Man you get all the luck with old trucks and cobwebs don't you?

Good luck is always nice to have when buying a used vehicle.

But…you should have a good idea what you're looking at, know something about auto mechanics (or have someone inspect it for you), know something about the vehicles, and what you plan to do with it.

If you think you are getting a smok’n deal on vehicle that has been sitting for over a year, and it was not prepped for storage, or the seller can’t really provide you with a comfortable feeling of its “real” condition, or you don't fret about taking risks, you should expect some minor to major issues, and some problems that you may not have even expected. 

Gnarls…. Just adding a little pomp and stink. 

[kneedownnate]

This keeps popping up on our local craigslist.  Would be a great deal for somebody if it's been ref'd

https://redding.craigslist.org/cto/d/daihatsu-rocky/6304524709.html

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

I actually got past the mailbox today! Wheeeeee!!!

Then the engine ran out of oil.

I got the temperature gauge installed and decided it was time for a test drive on my commute. It had been running so well on trips to the mailbox and back that I got brave (pronounced: "stupid") enough to venture out on the ~15 mile drive to town.

A few miles in, I stopped to check on the engine and all. I lifted the hood and was greeted by a substantial wisp of smoke rising from a sizable leak dripping oil onto the exhaust manifold. Later in the evening, I tried to drive home, carefully watching the engine. I got to the mailbox (within a mile) and ran out of oil. Fortunately, I shut it off as soon as I noticed the engine bogging down and heating up at idle. It seems that I get about 10 miles per gallon of oil.

I was towed up the mile-long driveway by a Toyota. Oh the ignominy!

[utherjorge]

It would seem that your cursory inspection might have missed something

[Gnarly4X]

Then the engine ran out of oil....  Fortunately, I shut it off as soon as I noticed the engine bogging down and heating up at idle.

Ouch... Unfortunately, if your engine bogged and heated up, it may have suffered serious damage.   

Gee Lewis, if you didn't have bad luck, you would have no luck at all. 

Perhaps an electric golf cart would work better for you? 

Gnarls. 

[THK Matt]

yank that damn engine out already lol

[H8PVMNT]

Dude.

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

It would seem that your cursory inspection might have missed something

Anything less than a few months of driving, fixing, and tinkering is a cursory inspection. And anything less than this will miss something.

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

OK, I suspect a bad PCV valve. It must be a really bad one given how it leaks oil. However, I'm running into the essential problem with this vehicle that knocked the price down to begin with: Knowledge and parts are hard to come by.

Nobody has a PCV valve for the Daihatsu 1.6 liter engine. Not even on eBay. Rockauto doesn't have an A/C clutch or compressor. Reasonably sized rims apparently do not exist. Finding a temperature sender has been a wrangle of nonsensical info and parts that don't fit. The aftermarket air intake and filter is deafeningly loud, but no-one sells a "market" air intake and filter. To top it all off, this engine is smaller than a large street bike engine and doesn't have enough power to climb even a modest slope. I can forget about digging through 12 inches of snow with tire chains on.

What does this spell? Hmmmmmm. I think it spells engine swap! At least, I'm strongly tempted to start looking for a new engine at a price I like.

Here are the potential engines I have in mind:

20R or 22R
Upsides: I know these engines better than anything else, there is lots of good tech, and they have a good reputation.
Downsides. Poor fuel economy, and will it even fit?

Subaru flat-four.
Upside: good rep, maybe available at my local junkyard, and maybe decent fuel economy, and maybe small enough to fit.
Downside: expensive due to EFI, and can I get a reasonable transmission/tcase to fit?

Small block vortec:
Upsides: cheap, lots of good tech and parts. Reputed to have good fuel economy.
Downsides: Ever heard the expression "starts like a chevy"?

Mazda-built Wankel rotary
Upsides: Possibly a rebuildable one available free for the drive to Oklahoma and back; Good low-end torque in a small package. Incredible bragging rights. ("I have the most obscure SUV ever built driven by the most arcane engine there ever was. Isn't that cool?")
Downsides: Basically everything that's wrong with the Daihatsu engine, except it might have decent low-end torque. Would need a complete overhaul. Plus, probably no 4wd tranny that would mate easily.

So what do you guys think? What options have I missed?

Gnarls: I know what you might be thinking about my woes with finding parts. Here's my answer: I knew parts would be hard to get, and have therefore been toying with an engine swap since before the day I bought it. That said, if you have any pomp'n'stink about vortec engines, please tell me about them.

[emsvitil]

Mazda rotaries aren't known for low end torque...........   They're high rpm engines.


How about a RWD corolla engine?      Might even bolt up  (or just a bell housing change)

[Gnarly4X]

Gnarls: I know what you might be thinking about my woes with finding parts. Here's my answer: I knew parts would be hard to get, and have therefore been toying with an engine swap since before the day I bought it. That said, if you have any pomp'n'stink about vortec engines, please tell me about them.

Hey Lewis,

Well since you asked, OK.

I’ve been told more than once that I am a very opinionated SOB, and I will not make any excuses for knowing more than the retards that made those accusations… although they were right on. 


Here’s my P&S on your situation:

Buying a D was not a good deal, nor will it be a good investment, you should know the reasons why.

I think any kind of modifcation project with an old D will be a nightmare.  I would poop-can the D and invest in your Toyota truck.

Engines swaps are typically costly and time consuming, and almost always end up way over estimated budget.

I would need lots of questions answered in my head and then on paper before venturing off into the unknown.

Do you know anyone who has swapped an engine in your D model?

So how much time, money, and swap space and tools do you have?

Before you start, what do you want out of this project?

How much space is in the engine bay of the D?

Can you swap in an engine that will mate to the D tranny?

Will the D chassis and frame rails handle the potential extra weight?

Will you need to change, modify or fabricate any power steering components or brackets?

Where will you route the exhaust piping?

Will you need to use the swapped engine’s tranny?  If not, are you willing to cut holes in the floor pan and make any modifications to the interior?

Is maintaining the heating and air conditioning feature important?

Will you need to fabricate engine mounts, transmission mounts?

Will you need to shorten/extend driveshafts?

A Wankel or Subaru engine swap would be an extremely bad choice.

A 22R engine would not be a bad choice, reliable, inexpensive maintenance, lots of options, available parts.

Assuming a Chevy 4.3L is a viable fit, it would be the least expensive, most reliable, least expensive to maintain, and arguably, has the greatest range of performance options than any other engine.

When you are finished, can you get it passed all the Federal, State, County, City EPA and emissions testing?

That’s just my opinion – it may be worthless. 

Gnarls. 

[H8PVMNT]

I think a Suzuki samurai  has a divorced transfer case doesn't it?  You could use a divorced transfer case with whatever 2WD style trans.

I vote the rotary because it's weird.

[THK Matt]

22RE, W56 is my vote.

and i think you'd get awesome MPG, as these engines were in vehicles twice the weight of that rocky almost.

[utherjorge]

OK, I suspect a bad PCV valve. It must be a really bad one given how it leaks oil. However, I'm running into the essential problem with this vehicle that knocked the price down to begin with: Knowledge and parts are hard to come by.

Nobody has a PCV valve for the Daihatsu 1.6 liter engine. Not even on eBay. Rockauto doesn't have an A/C clutch or compressor. Reasonably sized rims apparently do not exist. Finding a temperature sender has been a wrangle of nonsensical info and parts that don't fit. The aftermarket air intake and filter is deafeningly loud, but no-one sells a "market" air intake and filter. To top it all off, this engine is smaller than a large street bike engine and doesn't have enough power to climb even a modest slope. I can forget about digging through 12 inches of snow with tire chains on.

What does this spell? Hmmmmmm. I think it spells engine swap! At least, I'm strongly tempted to start looking for a new engine at a price I like.

Here are the potential engines I have in mind:

20R or 22R
Upsides: I know these engines better than anything else, there is lots of good tech, and they have a good reputation.
Downsides. Poor fuel economy, and will it even fit?

Subaru flat-four.
Upside: good rep, maybe available at my local junkyard, and maybe decent fuel economy, and maybe small enough to fit.
Downside: expensive due to EFI, and can I get a reasonable transmission/tcase to fit?

Small block vortec:
Upsides: cheap, lots of good tech and parts. Reputed to have good fuel economy.
Downsides: Ever heard the expression "starts like a chevy"?

Mazda-built Wankel rotary
Upsides: Possibly a rebuildable one available free for the drive to Oklahoma and back; Good low-end torque in a small package. Incredible bragging rights. ("I have the most obscure SUV ever built driven by the most arcane engine there ever was. Isn't that cool?")
Downsides: Basically everything that's wrong with the Daihatsu engine, except it might have decent low-end torque. Would need a complete overhaul. Plus, probably no 4wd tranny that would mate easily.

So what do you guys think? What options have I missed?

Gnarls: I know what you might be thinking about my woes with finding parts. Here's my answer: I knew parts would be hard to get, and have therefore been toying with an engine swap since before the day I bought it. That said, if you have any pomp'n'stink about vortec engines, please tell me about them.

Sorry for quoting so much. However, I have spent hours looking for stuff, and finding stuff. Everything you need on a Rocky can be found. Period. I will demonstrate this from my home computer where I have my links. I have gotten parts from Germany and Australia. But they are out there.

There is also no truth to the idea that you can't climb a hill with it. If it's running correctly, they handle themselves fine.

20/22R: Horrible idea. However, you have to start using the search button at Google. People have done a number of well-documented 22R swaps in one. The auto increase in power matters, but there are better ideas by far.

Subie motor: Will not fit with the transfer case and all that. I'm sure ANYthing could fit...but I don't think these are well-suited to this sort of vehicle.

Vortec engines: even a 4.3 requires you to lift the vehicle to absurd proportions to get things to fit. If you want to give up on 4wd, not an issue. There's videos of an LS1 Rocky for drag racing. And I have never heard the term "starts like a chevy."

Rotary: wat

I think Gnarls has a good handle on all of this: all of your answers can be found on Google, Warfs.org, and more.

[THK Matt]

Sorry for quoting so much. However, I have spent hours looking for stuff, and finding stuff. Everything you need on a Rocky can be found. Period. I will demonstrate this from my home computer where I have my links. I have gotten parts from Germany and Australia. But they are out there.

There is also no truth to the idea that you can't climb a hill with it. If it's running correctly, they handle themselves fine.

20/22R: Horrible idea. However, you have to start using the search button at Google. People have done a number of well-documented 22R swaps in one. The auto increase in power matters, but there are better ideas by far.

Subie motor: Will not fit with the transfer case and all that. I'm sure ANYthing could fit...but I don't think these are well-suited to this sort of vehicle.

Vortec engines: even a 4.3 requires you to lift the vehicle to absurd proportions to get things to fit. If you want to give up on 4wd, not an issue. There's videos of an LS1 Rocky for drag racing. And I have never heard the term "starts like a chevy."

Rotary: wat

I think Gnarls has a good handle on all of this: all of your answers can be found on Google, Warfs.org, and more.

Im just curious, what do you mean by horrible idea for the 22R?

[Gnarly4X]

... And I have never heard the term "starts like a chevy."

I have also never heard the phrase "starts like a chevy".  I've had lots of Chevys in my life, and they started instantly.  My most memorable Chevy start up was my 1967 Corvette coupe, with a custom Guldstrand built 327.  For a cold start - without touching the gas pedal - that engine would fire within a split second of turning over, instantly. It would explode to about 1800 RPM, and in a few seconds up to 2,000 RPM where it stayed until I stabbed the throttle.  Then it dropped to about 1500 RPM at its very radical lopy normal idle.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

Im just curious, what do you mean by horrible idea for the 22R?

Yeah.. I am wondering that as well?

Gnarls.

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Ive always heard the phrase in connection with chevys that sit there cranking for 30 seconds before the engine starts.

I can only imagine how it would be at -30 with no block heater. Probably not good for trying to get anywhere.

I, too, want to know why a 22R would be a horrible idea

[Lewis Hein [OP]]

Mazda rotaries aren't known for low end torque...........   They're high rpm engines.

Actually, the torque curve on a wankel rotary engine looks similar to the 22R.

22RE, W56 is my vote.

and i think you'd get awesome MPG, as these engines were in vehicles twice the weight of that rocky almost.

Actually, the rocky is supposed to weigh about as much as my truck. Rocky: 1250 kg, Hilux: 1270

I think a Suzuki samurai  has a divorced transfer case doesn't it?  You could use a divorced transfer case with whatever 2WD style trans.

I vote the rotary because it's weird.

Another trick I've heard of is to put in a second 2wd trans. But that might be hard with the rocky if I want more than a 3" long rear driveline. The rotary would be weird, and fun to drive (but not fun to swap in). Sadly, I fear it might be too expensive.