Author Topic: Swapped out the stock L43 4 speed for the w56 5 speed  (Read 1897 times)

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1980firstgen20r

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Swapped out the stock L43 4 speed for the w56 5 speed
« on: Jul 25, 2017, 08:04:24 AM »
So I recently swapped my L43 for a newer w56
I got the tranny/ T case from a wrecked truck
To my slightly trained eye the tranny looked good shifted good input shaft was good with no play in it
Center force clutch/ pressure plate looked good on the motor however I didn't replace the pilot bearing before I installed the trans.
Installed the trans got the measurements for my driveshaft because the w56 is longer I needed it shortend down 5"
Got my drive shaft from the shop and installed it
Test drive went ok. Shifts absolutely great. Drives up to speed with little effort. But in 2 wheel drive going down the road up to speed I hear/ feel and god awful vibration/ gear grinding noise that sounds like it's coming from the trans/ T case.
I did some reasurch on drive shaft angles and options
My rear drive shaft is a two universal joint shaft with a 76 degree angle at the ring and pinion flange and a flat out 90 degree angle at the T case flange. From what I've learned I need to know the difference between the to two angles
Whitch is 14 degrees. Would you all think that this is my problem? The difference in the angles should be 0 or 1 right?
Wouldn't  14 degrees multiply the vibration because neither u joint is being canceled out..?
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redneckcustoms13

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You didn't happen to take the drive shaft out of phase when you put it in did you? Very commonly made mistake.
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
01 double cab hunting truck
06 tacoma street truck

jmac80

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Saw your other post about the ring and pinion.....but figured I would put my two cents in.  I did this into an 81 and mixed and matched shafts to work.  I didn't have a balance problem but may have just gotten lucky.
1980 long bed; 20R; L52; 3" OME; 30-spline Marfields; Marlin high steer; PS; AC

1980firstgen20r [OP]

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You didn't happen to take the drive shaft out of phase when you put it in did you? Very commonly made mistake.
I don't think so, I did flopp up and pull the slip yoke out on accident but I still had the line up marks on the shaft, if I did put it in out of phase I'm prolly one tooth of spline off or so
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toyodaaddict

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I think you're on track with looking into your pinion angle. In my experience these trucks are pretty sensitive to pinion angle change and just a degree or two out can cause issues. Installing a longer transmission has most likely thrown off your angles.

Another thing to consider is the need for a CV joint. I have found the need for a CV rear shaft on every lifted Toyota I've ever worked on.
 
 "god awful vibration/ gear grinding noise that sounds like it's coming from the trans/ T case"  This is the typical complaint that leads to the CV shaft.  With a CV I always set the pinion 2* under the slope of the shaft. I am a lot less familiar with standard single u joint shafts but what you are saying sounds right. you want the flanges parallel.

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Driveline-101.shtml

Good luck, hopefully the transmission is not the issue
80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

1980firstgen20r [OP]

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I think you're on track with looking into your pinion angle. In my experience these trucks are pretty sensitive to pinion angle change and just a degree or two out can cause issues. Installing a longer transmission has most likely thrown off your angles.

Another thing to consider is the need for a CV joint. I have found the need for a CV rear shaft on every lifted Toyota I've ever worked on.
 
 "god awful vibration/ gear grinding noise that sounds like it's coming from the trans/ T case"  This is the typical complaint that leads to the CV shaft.  With a CV I always set the pinion 2* under the slope of the shaft. I am a lot less familiar with standard single u joint shafts but what you are saying sounds right. you want the flanges parallel.

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Driveline-101.shtml

Good luck, hopefully the transmission is not the issue
Yes but also I found out my ring and pinion gear was bad. So I swapped in my other re built axle and it literally cut the noise in half but it's still there. Once I start my 63" chevy springs in I'm going to get some custom shims to match my T case angle. But 14 degrees is a lot and that sounds like and abnormally large shim/ lift block.
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1980firstgen20r [OP]

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And also when your dealing with the CV joint, don't the angles have to be perscise?
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toyodaaddict

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And also when your dealing with the CV joint, don't the angles have to be perscise?

The pinion angle needs to be set correctly either way, CV or non CV. If you are going with chevy 63's it's pretty standard to need a CV shaft. I've put 63's on a handful of trucks. I have always used a CV and never needed to tip the pinion up more than 7*( maybe 9* one time?) to get the required pinion angle of 2* under the slope of the shaft. 14* would be a big shim and probably time to rotate the perches.

80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

1980firstgen20r [OP]

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The pinion angle needs to be set correctly either way, CV or non CV. If you are going with chevy 63's it's pretty standard to need a CV shaft. I've put 63's on a handful of trucks. I have always used a CV and never needed to tip the pinion up more than 7*( maybe 9* one time?) to get the required pinion angle of 2* under the slope of the shaft. 14* would be a big shim and probably time to rotate the perches.
Rotate the perches?
And also I'm sure you read what I posted before but right now with shims my pinion angle is 76* tilted up and the the t case is at 90*
What would you suggest I do to make it parallel?
If I remember correctly my shaft angle is 12*
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toyodaaddict

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Rotate the perches?
And also I'm sure you read what I posted before but right now with shims my pinion angle is 76* tilted up and the the t case is at 90*
What would you suggest I do to make it parallel?
If I remember correctly my shaft angle is 12*


Rotate perches = cut off your spring perches and weld on new ones so you pinion is at the correct angle without shims.

So I have never really had to mess with a non cv  setup. The only time I tried was the first time I installed dual cases and 63's on a yota. I was unseccessful and went to a CV.

The way I understand it and I could be completely wrong, is that with your non CV shaft you would rotate your pinion down 14*, then both your pinion and tcase flange would be at 90* "parallel". I don't know, does that sound right?

80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

1980firstgen20r [OP]

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Rotate perches = cut off your spring perches and weld on new ones so you pinion is at the correct angle without shims.

So I have never really had to mess with a non cv  setup. The only time I tried was the first time I installed dual cases and 63's on a yota. I was unseccessful and went to a CV.

The way I understand it and I could be completely wrong, is that with your non CV shaft you would rotate your pinion down 14*, then both your pinion and tcase flange would be at 90* "parallel". I don't know, does that sound right?
It seems like I would need to go up? But if I need to go down I could just pull the shims off of it and maby the noise would decrease some what? Simple test I guess, but could make no difference?
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1980firstgen20r [OP]

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Rotate perches = cut off your spring perches and weld on new ones so you pinion is at the correct angle without shims.

So I have never really had to mess with a non cv  setup. The only time I tried was the first time I installed dual cases and 63's on a yota. I was unseccessful and went to a CV.

The way I understand it and I could be completely wrong, is that with your non CV shaft you would rotate your pinion down 14*, then both your pinion and tcase flange would be at 90* "parallel". I don't know, does that sound right?
Ok so check this out
I took the bed off the truck idk if it really makes a difference but I took a short video of what's happening on the rear end. This is in 2WD and going up hill on an old dirt road
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t0MSQF3NpcgNot a valid youtube URL[/youtube]
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