Author Topic: 22RE strange Temperature/ temperature spiking issue?  (Read 8104 times)

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Gnarly4X

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Well I haven't made any progress due to needing to do some unexpected work to the 84 DD.  But, I talked with Jerry at 22REPerformance. After telling him that I replaced the radiator with a new aftermarket unit during the rebuild, he suggested I try another radiator before getting the dual stage thermostat. He said that the aftermarket radiators are assembled so sloppily that its not uncommon to have dead spots due to cores being soldered closed. So I guess its off to the junk yard to try and find an OEM radiator to have reconditioned  :crossed:

Based on what you described, if the radiator is defective and not fully flowing and cooling, it should result in a constant elevated operating temperature.  In other words, if all else is normal, you have a new factory thermostat, if the radiator is restricting flow, the coolant temperature would go up and stay up.

The standard Toy factory thermostat begins to open at 190d F.  It is fully open at 212d F.  So, if you see a very short – a few seconds – spike on your temp gauge to 200d F, that could be normal.  If, after a normal warm up, you see a constant elevated temperature, say above 200d F, then you might have a restrictive flow issue.

If all else is normal, keep in mind that if you have a 13 PSI radiator cap with 50/50 coolant/water, the coolant would not boil until around 260d F (depending on your actual elevation)… slightly above your average engine oil normal operating temperature.

As long as the engine temp on your gauge is not running constantly above 195, I would not be overly concerned.  Also, I think that a freshly rebuilt engine could have a slightly higher coolant temp due to the excessive friction during the initial break in period.

If you want to eliminate a possible bad thermostat, remove it and take your truck for a healthy test drive.

That's just my opinion - it may be worthless.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Jul 12, 2017, 04:43:11 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

toyodaaddict [OP]

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I had a chance to mess with the truck today and think I eliminated the radiator theory.

I started the truck up cold with the heater temp switch on cool and went for a drive. The temp stayed around 180* for 20-30 min.
Then I moved the heater switch to warm and the temp quickly made its way up to 190* and then back down to 180*, but would fluctuated between 180* and 190* on acceleration and deceleration. When I put the heater switch back to cool the truck ran steady 180*

I took the truck home and let it fully cool down. Then I started the truck up cold with the heater temp switch set to warm this time and went for a drive. At roughly 1.5-2 miles the temp reached 200* and before it could get any hotter I flipped the heater switch to cool and down it came to a little under 180*

This is some weird stuff and I'm not impressed.  Time for the 2 stage thermostat I guess  :dunno:
80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

Gnarly4X

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Hi toyodaaddict,

I think I’m a little confused.

Typically, the heater lever simply opens and closes a manual valve that allows coolant to run through the heater core for heating the cab.

If the lever is in the “warm” position, the valve should be open and the heater core would be absorbing heat from the coolant – which normally lowers the engine temp on mechanical gauge.  This is the opposite of what you posted is happening.. unless I’m reading it wrong? ….

“When I put the heater switch back to cool the truck ran steady 180*”

….“but would fluctuated between 180* and 190*”…. It is normal for the engine temp go up on acceleration and down on deceleration.  How much is abnormal on the gauge is questionable.

Since the temperature will run steady at 180, I don’t believe this is thermostat related.

It appears the change in temperature is related to the heater valve and heater core.  Its almost as if the coolant tubes are switched or something is blocking the flow when the heater switch is moved?

Obviously, even with the heater core valve shut off, the engine temp should NOT go up excessively. 

I’d get a coolant flow chart/diagram and make sure all coolant tubes are connected correctly.

Here’s a post on our site I found that may or may not help.

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=63219.0

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

blackdiamond

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The part that makes no sense to me is the temperature fluctuation on acceleration and deceleration. Fluid cannot change temperature that quickly.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

liveoak

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.....quick blown head gasket!   :yikes:

Gnarls.


he may be on to something here. I had a similar experience with my truck getting hot with the heater on and it turned out to be the headgasket. no mix of oil and coolant and no coolant in the combustion chamber. It had just such a leak that when running it would pressurize the cooling system and for whatever reason turning the heater on would make it overheat. eventually I could notice a lot of bubbling in the overflow after a long drive and after a while actually started overflowing at the overflow. I hope this isn't the case, but wanted to share my experience with similar symptoms. I think you need to perform a combustion leak test on the cooling system. I guess it could also be a small crack in the head or block at a coolant passage
« Last Edit: Jul 14, 2017, 06:58:25 AM by liveoak »

Gnarly4X

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.... I think you need to perform a combustion leak test on the cooling system. I guess it could also be a small crack in the head or block at a coolant passage

I agree.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X

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... Fluid cannot change temperature that quickly.

Well... that depends.  :gap:

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

toyodaaddict [OP]

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Ok now you guys have got me in panic mode  :yikes:

Any chance any of you Washington guys know a shop that can do the coolant/exhaust gas test that's familiar with the 22re? I'm in the maple valley area and have yet to find anyone that is very familiar with these engines. 
80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

liveoak

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Gnarly4X

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Ok now you guys have got me in panic mode  :yikes:


Don't panic yet.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

blackdiamond

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Ok now you guys have got me in panic mode  :yikes:

Any chance any of you Washington guys know a shop that can do the coolant/exhaust gas test that's familiar with the 22re? I'm in the maple valley area and have yet to find anyone that is very familiar with these engines. 

I don't think this is intended to be a joke, but I suspect we might be able to recommend a place...
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

blackdiamond

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Well... that depends.  :gap:

Gnarls.



Always, but I'd suspect that if the temperature is fluctuating quickly it's more of an indication that the flow by the gauge is from a slightly different source rather than the average temperature of the fluid cycling.  It's even less likely for it to cool back down that quickly.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

toyodaaddict [OP]

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you can get something similar to this https://www.amazon.com/Block-Tester-BT-500-Combustion-Leak/dp/B06VVBSFTF/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1500055099&sr=1-1&keywords=combustion+leak+tester
however any shop could perform the basic test

Thanks, I wasnt sure if the kits where reliable or not. I'll probably pick one up. Would I be correct to assume a shop would use the same method to test for the combustion gas?


I don't think this is intended to be a joke, but I suspect we might be able to recommend a place...
Well lets hear it, am I missing something obvious here?

80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

:)bestgen4runner

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There is a Toyota Master Tech that lives in Maple valley, Washington.
He is a Legend around here. They call Him Toyota Chris. You might have heard of Him.
I know him well and could talk to him for You.
He does not work for free, but is a great guy. 
I think He also is a marlin Crawler Guy. What was his user name again?
Many of the guys on here Know him well and would recommend him very highly.


 
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

blackdiamond

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There is a Toyota Master Tech that lives in Maple valley, Washington.
He is a Legend around here. They call Him Toyota Chris. You might have heard of Him.
I know him well and could talk to him for You.
He does not work for free, but is a great guy. 
I think He also is a marlin Crawler Guy. What was his user name again?
Many of the guys on here Know him well and would recommend him very highly.


 

Sounds a bit like the rum and Coke has not quite worn off completely...
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

liveoak

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I've heard of this Chris but I think he lives in Southern California and prefers whiskey to rum. I know for sure he drives a 4runner
anyway

The theory is this. With the heater off the water pump is forced to circulate through the block and head even if there is introduced pressure (exhaust) albeit not very efficiently. When you turn your heater on the pump will choose the path of least resistance thus circulating coolant almost exclusively through the heater core which obviously can't cool an engine on it's own.

you could try retorquing the headbolts as a hailmary if this is indeed the problem

liveoak

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in case all this sarcasm is misunderstood, reach out to :)bestgen4runner aka Chris. He lives in your area and is our resident Toyota mechanic

Gnarly4X

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You guys are going to have the OP on drugs pretty soon!!!  Stop it~\!

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

toyodaaddict [OP]

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in case all this sarcasm is misunderstood, reach out to :)bestgen4runner aka Chris. He lives in your area and is our resident Toyota mechanic

:)bestgen4runner is on board for next week :thumbs:. Hopefully we will NOT be reporting anything catastrophic. 
80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

:)bestgen4runner

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Challenge accepted  :thumbs:
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

liveoak

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I will be patiently awaiting the diagnosis

Gnarly4X

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I will be patiently awaiting the diagnosis

Me 3....

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

blackdiamond

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:)bestgen4runner is on board for next week :thumbs:. Hopefully we will NOT be reporting anything catastrophic. 

Catestrophic equal lucrative!  It's all a matter of perspective.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

emsvitil

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Drill an 1/8" hole in the flange of the old thermostat, install it and see what happens.

It will take longer to warm up, put there will be constant flow thru the thermostat................
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Gnarly4X

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Drill an 1/8" hole in the flange of the old thermostat, install it and see what happens.


I don't believe that will have any affect on the temperature spikes. :dunno:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

emsvitil

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I don't believe that will have any affect on the temperature spikes. :dunno:

Gnarls.

It will simulate the 2 stage thermostat to some extent.......

And if the spikes stop, we've learned something  (although what we do with that knowledge............)
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

emsvitil

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Stupid question.........

Do you have the thermostat installed upside-down?    If so, the wax pellet would be on the hose side (cool side) of the thermostat............

You would get the overshoot with it installed that way.
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

toyodaaddict [OP]

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Stupid question.........

Do you have the thermostat installed upside-down?    If so, the wax pellet would be on the hose side (cool side) of the thermostat............

You would get the overshoot with it installed that way.

The Thermostat is installed with the spring/slug down. The 2 stage thermostat is on its way, so I will be able to give that a try.
80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

emsvitil

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Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Gnarly4X

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... The 2 stage thermostat is on its way, so I will be able to give that a try.

I'm anxious to read about the results.  I hope it fixes your spikey temps!

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

 
 
 
 
 

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