Author Topic: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber  (Read 23166 times)

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Gnarly4X

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #60 on: Jun 18, 2017, 05:13:58 AM »

I ordered a set of sealed throttle shaft bearings from Pegasus Racing but have yet to get around to installing them.

What did Pegasus say about the leaking shafts?

Quote
  And then I'll do a V6 swap... LOL.

What V-6 would you swap?

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #61 on: Jun 19, 2017, 07:23:29 AM »
Best I got with my weber was 19 mpg, kicking, bucking and gutless the whole way.  Soon as I got back from passing smog it changed to 14-15 mpg with good power and better driveability.  Still never did well at angles, even with the high angle mod. 

I am guessing this is all the better I am going to get.  I have kept edging into leaner with the secondary.  I have found the point at which I have what I think is the my safest jet on the lean end, but better power is had one step fatter.  At this point I have the primary on the leaner side and the secondary right in the middle.  Until I get an AF gauge I think I am done.

I was wheeling up steep coulees and off camber notches yesterday when we were hunting for our horses and it was flawless at all angles.  Not even a hiccup.  All I did was the standard hill climb mod and tweaking the float level a bit.  I guess the regulator probably helps.  I settled in at about 2.8 psi on the pressure gauge.
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
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 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

Gnarly4X

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #62 on: Jun 19, 2017, 09:19:19 AM »
I am guessing this is all the better I am going to get.  I have kept edging into leaner with the secondary.  I have found the point at which I have what I think is the my safest jet on the lean end, but better power is had one step fatter.  At this point I have the primary on the leaner side and the secondary right in the middle.  Until I get an AF gauge I think I am done.

I was wheeling up steep coulees and off camber notches yesterday when we were hunting for our horses and it was flawless at all angles.  Not even a hiccup.  All I did was the standard hill climb mod and tweaking the float level a bit.  I guess the regulator probably helps.  I settled in at about 2.8 psi on the pressure gauge.

Awesome tech stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #63 on: Jun 19, 2017, 12:08:01 PM »
Picked up some reading material.  I love the classics...

I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

Gillesdetrail

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #64 on: Jun 19, 2017, 04:15:26 PM »
Awesome! I want your comments on that book and if you think it is worth the purchase for our downdrafts, thanks for the info!

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #65 on: Jun 19, 2017, 09:54:37 PM »
What did Pegasus say about the leaking shafts?

Well, I didn't actually speak to anyone there.  Their catalog offers these sealed bearings as a solution for throttle shaft leaks, it sounded like a good idea, it's not terribly expensive, so I bought them.  I'll document the install and results whenever I get around to it.

What V-6 would you swap?

Gnarls.

Chevy 4.3.  Simple, cheap, reliable, LOTS of torque for towing.  I just recently missed a complete 2000 year engine and trans with under 100k miles for $500.  I'd sell the trans (4L60E, I think) for a $100 and be on my way.  Note that I will ditch all electronics and convert to carb and HEI distributor for simplicity's sake and because I'm basically a caveman.
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Gnarly4X

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #66 on: Jun 20, 2017, 03:59:21 AM »
Well, I didn't actually speak to anyone there.  Their catalog offers these sealed bearings as a solution for throttle shaft leaks, it sounded like a good idea, it's not terribly expensive, so I bought them.  I'll document the install and results whenever I get around to it.

Chevy 4.3.  Simple, cheap, reliable, LOTS of torque for towing.  I just recently missed a complete 2000 year engine and trans with under 100k miles for $500.  I'd sell the trans (4L60E, I think) for a $100 and be on my way.  Note that I will ditch all electronics and convert to carb and HEI distributor for simplicity's sake and because I'm basically a caveman.

Interesting....Wow.... Chevy 4.3.  Of course it means abandoning the Toyota badge.

Well... that swap has been in my head from early on when I began looking at more juice in 1985 22R Standard Cab.  I started to document "Cost per increase in power" and that swap was the best.  And, I completely agree.  If I were to be serious about a practical swap, the 4.3 would be my choice.  BUT... I would REALLY love to swap in a V-8!  Historically, I was a long time Chevy addict.... 2 Chevy Malibus, 2 Chevy Corvettes, 1 Chevy pickup, 1 Chevy Caprice Classic - all V-8s.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Jun 20, 2017, 04:07:22 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #67 on: Jun 20, 2017, 09:05:52 AM »
Awesome! I want your comments on that book and if you think it is worth the purchase for our downdrafts, thanks for the info!

I got it on sale for $12, it's well worth that much.  As stated elsewhere It does cover all the Webers which is a bit superfluous for most of us running DG*V carbs, but between the interesting history and the baseline jetting charts in the back, I think it's worth having around.  It does have a good section on a DGEV rebuild.  It goes on and on about how the Weber carbs can be tuned for economy or performance, and kind of both on the progressives, which seems to be true as I mess with mine.

What you get out of it though is the design and theory is the same regardless of which Weber.  What you have is versatility since you can tune every aspect so very much.

It does help get your head wrapped around emulsion tubes...
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

Plainview

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #68 on: Jun 20, 2017, 11:31:57 AM »
Interesting....Wow.... Chevy 4.3.  Of course it means abandoning the Toyota badge.

.... BUT... I would REALLY love to swap in a V-8!  Historically, I was a long time Chevy addict.... 2 Chevy Malibus, 2 Chevy Corvettes, 1 Chevy pickup, 1 Chevy Caprice Classic - all V-8s.

Gnarls.

Well, sort of.  It's still a Toyota truck and I plan to retain a Toyota 5-speed.  I'd love to do a 5VZ-FE but that's a lot more money and involves computers and such.

I've heard of people doing the V8 swaps and these days and aluminum LS would be the hot ticket but even an old school smallblock is just such total overkill plus the packaging would be more difficult.  The 4.3 will put out somewhere between 250-280 ft-lbs which is more than enough.  My buddy has a 2000 Astro and it has no problem at all hauling three of us, all of our camping gear, three dogs and a couple motorcycles in a trailer out back.  I'm sure my truck is lighter than that van.
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Gnarly4X

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #69 on: Jun 20, 2017, 01:20:23 PM »
Well, sort of.  It's still a Toyota truck and I plan to retain a Toyota 5-speed.  I'd love to do a 5VZ-FE but that's a lot more money and involves computers and such.

I've heard of people doing the V8 swaps and these days and aluminum LS would be the hot ticket but even an old school smallblock is just such total overkill plus the packaging would be more difficult.  The 4.3 will put out somewhere between 250-280 ft-lbs which is more than enough.  My buddy has a 2000 Astro and it has no problem at all hauling three of us, all of our camping gear, three dogs and a couple motorcycles in a trailer out back.  I'm sure my truck is lighter than that van.

I like your thinking.

You probably have also spent some time researching the conversion.  There's lots of information the Chevy 4.3 engine.  There is almost a limitless source of aftermarket parts and range of performance modifications.  Arguably, that engine is one of THE most reliable engines ever built.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/engines/about/chevy/chevy-small-block-v6

http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/712560--toyota-truck-g52g54g85--w56-4-cyl-transmission-to-gm-v8-adapter-bell-housing-kit/

Knowing what I know now and experiencing this recent 22RE rebuild project, I probably could have had a 4.3 swapped in for less cost and time than my current out of pocket cost.

I wouldn't mind driving my stock 1986 XtraCab with a Chevy motor in it...... I would not feel back about calling it a Chevota.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gillesdetrail

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #70 on: Jun 20, 2017, 02:56:31 PM »
I got it on sale for $12, it's well worth that much.  As stated elsewhere It does cover all the Webers which is a bit superfluous for most of us running DG*V carbs, but between the interesting history and the baseline jetting charts in the back, I think it's worth having around.  It does have a good section on a DGEV rebuild.  It goes on and on about how the Weber carbs can be tuned for economy or performance, and kind of both on the progressives, which seems to be true as I mess with mine.

What you get out of it though is the design and theory is the same regardless of which Weber.  What you have is versatility since you can tune every aspect so very much.

It does help get your head wrapped around emulsion tubes...

Thanks! Cheapest I found was 35$cad, I think I'll buy it just for the emulsion tube part. I got my 125 and 130 mains and 150 and 160 airs in the mail, I hope to run it soon!

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #71 on: Jun 21, 2017, 07:12:37 AM »
Hey you clowns quit stinkin' up my Weber thread with chevy talk! :)
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #72 on: Jun 21, 2017, 07:17:17 AM »
Just for kicks I richened up the secondary a good bit yesterday.  Acceleration was a teeny tiny bit better on the secondary but it mainly just burned more fuel.  It's funny, based on what I am finding each circuit has about 2, maybe 3 jettings that fall into the range of correct.  You can favor economy or performance within that range, but anything outside of it will be noticeably lean or rich and yield very little results other than poor drivability of porky fuel economy.

According to the charts in the book stock jets would be OK for up to 5,000 ft, but I'm guessing you would be pretty danged rich at 5,000 ft.  Out of the box this thing was on the rich end of good on the idle jet.  When I settled into one jet leaner it was on the lean end of good.  If I go wheeling in the coast range I will probably swap back to the richer idle jet.  Maybe the richer idle jet will be better for winter too.


Where I am ending up is for the most part just a step leaner all around on the primary than out of the box.  This is logical for my normal altitude of 3,200-3,600 feet on my commute. 
My engine also seems to like a little richer secondary, which makes sense with the 20r head and header/exhaust.

So right is right, and not right is wrong.
« Last Edit: Jun 21, 2017, 07:31:32 AM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #73 on: Jun 21, 2017, 07:20:12 AM »
Thanks! Cheapest I found was 35$cad, I think I'll buy it just for the emulsion tube part. I got my 125 and 130 mains and 150 and 160 airs in the mail, I hope to run it soon!

I think it's going to be the secondary main jet change that gets you right at WOT/mid.  Be sure and let us know!
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

Gnarly4X

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #74 on: Jun 21, 2017, 09:23:34 AM »
Hey you clowns quit stinkin' up my Weber thread with chevy talk! :)


   :-\  Sorry H8PVMNT... I knew right after I posted that you would be spank'n me!!

Just for the record, I would be installing a 3 carb manifold on that 4.3, with Weber carbs!! :gap:

Gnarls. :disturbed:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #75 on: Jun 21, 2017, 09:31:44 AM »
It's all good discussion :).
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"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

Gillesdetrail

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #76 on: Jun 21, 2017, 03:20:33 PM »
I think it's going to be the secondary main jet change that gets you right at WOT/mid.  Be sure and let us know!

I'll keep you guys updated for sure! Hope to get it road worthy again this week-end. I need to lean below 2500 rpms by a lot, midrange and top end it's great, and it may be different on my 38/38 as both mains are the same. Although, I've been told I can stagger the mains on the 38 (ex: 140/145 mains) without any drivabilty problems to fine tune WOT.

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #77 on: Jun 21, 2017, 08:16:09 PM »
H8'er

Does that book have anything to say about the secondary idle jet? I cannot for the life of me understand what that's supposed to do or how it affects things...
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H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #78 on: Jun 22, 2017, 01:14:08 PM »
H8'er

Does that book have anything to say about the secondary idle jet? I cannot for the life of me understand what that's supposed to do or how it affects things...

I haven't got that far into the book yet.  I have messed around with it though and based on the changes and reading a few things I believe on the progressive carbs it is kind of a transition piece.  Like when you just step into the secondary and maybe 10% into it, this is your fuel.  So if it's lean you should have a flat dip when you hit the secondary until the secondary main kicks in.  On the flip side I richened the secondary main a step and found that the secondary hits a little harder and you get a more audible pull when they engage.

I had it 2 steps richer and I lost a little economy, so I think we spend a lot of highway time just tipping into the secondary and using this jet when we buck a head wind or pull a slight grade.

Anyway if I find anything different I'll post it up but that's what I have experienced tuning so far.
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #79 on: Jun 22, 2017, 03:39:07 PM »
Here is another interesting tidbit on tuning the DCOE, but the same systems apply to the DGV...

http://www.scuderiatopolino.com/TuningofWebercarburetorsrev2.pdf

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 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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« Last Edit: Jun 23, 2017, 08:15:24 AM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #81 on: Jun 22, 2017, 03:49:23 PM »
Reading over these and what I have read in the book really makes sense where I have ended up on my jetting so far.  I have to say it was darned close out of the box and after working though the different circuits it just needed a little bit of change here and there.  I will write up a summary of the sequence of events in common sense language of how to tune these things.

Not saying I am done or I have it all figured out, but I think I have found a really good happy place as I am getting better fuel economy while at the same time having more power.
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #82 on: Jun 22, 2017, 05:17:32 PM »
I haven't got that far into the book yet.  I have messed around with it though and based on the changes and reading a few things I believe on the progressive carbs it is kind of a transition piece.  Like when you just step into the secondary and maybe 10% into it, this is your fuel.  So if it's lean you should have a flat dip when you hit the secondary until the secondary main kicks in.  On the flip side I richened the secondary main a step and found that the secondary hits a little harder and you get a more audible pull when they engage.

I had it 2 steps richer and I lost a little economy, so I think we spend a lot of highway time just tipping into the secondary and using this jet when we buck a head wind or pull a slight grade.

Anyway if I find anything different I'll post it up but that's what I have experienced tuning so far.

I guess that makes sense, thanks!
My '84 Daily Driver Build:
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Parts Wanted:
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- Un-cracked dash pad (do they exist?)
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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #83 on: Jun 22, 2017, 08:43:33 PM »


... I think I have found a really good happy place as I am getting better fuel economy while at the same time having more power.

Better gas mileage AND more power!!!???..... OOOMMMMGGGG  :willynilly:

.....are you sure?  ???

Gnarls.  :D

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #84 on: Jun 22, 2017, 08:47:48 PM »
It was a tailwind.........
Ed
SoCal
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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #85 on: Jun 23, 2017, 08:42:33 AM »
Have you ever thought of going with a diesel? 

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #86 on: Jun 23, 2017, 09:07:12 AM »
Have you ever thought of going with a diesel? 

I'm sure I'll go there one day.  Fuel economy is superior.  It's on my list of Toyota swap things to do.  Right now I am fixated on 20r and 22r carbed engines and trying to learn everything there is to learn there that applies to these trucks the way we use them.  Hopefully answer a bunch of questions along the way.

With me lately it's more about finding out what happens when we do ___?___, and posting the experience.  Right now I'm trying to learn the Weber.  I have fuel economy/tuning goals with this Weber 32/36, but success is in trying, tuning and posting the reality.  I could give a monkey's thumb weather it all works out in the end as long as we all have fun and learn something.
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Gnarly4X

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #87 on: Jun 23, 2017, 09:25:54 AM »
Have you ever thought of going with a diesel? 

Stinky D's on the trail.... no bueno! :gap:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #88 on: Jun 23, 2017, 09:57:35 AM »
Time to call BS on my tune...  AEM wideband AF gauge is on the way.
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

Gnarly4X

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Re: H8PVMNT Wrestles a Weber
« Reply #89 on: Jun 23, 2017, 11:48:17 AM »
Time to call BS on my tune...  AEM wideband AF gauge is on the way.

Duuuude!!  I'm so jealous!!  :gap:

Now you can graduate from a Master Tweaker to a Dr. of TUNE!!  :beerchug:

Gnarls. :D
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

 
 
 
 
 

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