Topic: ToyBrota's 85 Xtracab Build up.

[Gnarly4X]

It doesn't say TOYOTA on it and cost 15 dollars for a 3oz tube so he doesn't like it

300k, I believe you are just being funny, however …your automotive knowledge and experience wouldn’t make a little pimple on :)bestgen4runner’s butt!  He probably will perform more automotive diagnosis and replacement/repairs in one month than you will do in your entire life.

Using Toyota specified and recommended parts, gaskets, sealers, etc has proven over and over to be a very wise option of choice.  When it comes to rebuilding our old Toyotas the quality of the parts has proven to be way more important than saving a few bucks. We all know you can buy “stuff” at a discount, you can buy substitutes, you can buy aftermarket cheap stuff, but buying quality often takes some experience…. like trial and error.  OR… you can take notes when highly experienced people like :)bestgen4runner shares his knowledge.


“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.”

~ Benjamin Franklin


Gnarls.

[300k]

-snip-

It wasn't that I know more than Bgen, or that Bgen doesn't know what he's talking about (more on this). I have a few tubes of black FIPG, myself. I like to use gaskets when the part is designed for a gasket and if it's advised to coat with RTV, I do that.

Point being, everyone in their brother seems to use The Right Stuff. H8PVMNT managed to seal his timing cover with The Right Stuff and NO gasket. redneckcustoms13 has used it very frequently without issue. Many DIYers have successfully completed repairs with The Right Stuff.

I don't think bestgen knows that The Right Stuff is bad, I think he likes Toyota FIPG better and there's nothing wrong with that. But every time someone uses The Right Stuff, why exude the idea of The Right Stuff being an inferior product if real world use suggests it works?

The right stuff with no gasket 

I wish you the best of luck my friend, maybe it will work and I will learn a new trick.

No hate to bestgen, just don't get why he says The Right Stuff is so bad?

Sorry for the derailing of your thread Toybrota

[Toybrota [OP]]

It wasn't that I know more than Bgen, or that Bgen doesn't know what he's talking about (more on this). I have a few tubes of black FIPG, myself. I like to use gaskets when the part is designed for a gasket and if it's advised to coat with RTV, I do that.

Point being, everyone in their brother seems to use The Right Stuff. H8PVMNT managed to seal his timing cover with The Right Stuff and NO gasket. redneckcustoms13 has used it very frequently without issue. Many DIYers have successfully completed repairs with The Right Stuff.

I don't think bestgen knows that The Right Stuff is bad, I think he likes Toyota FIPG better and there's nothing wrong with that. But every time someone uses The Right Stuff, why exude the idea of The Right Stuff being an inferior product if real world use suggests it works?

No hate to bestgen, just don't get why he says The Right Stuff is so bad?

Sorry for the derailing of your thread Toybrota

Wow what has happened to this thread.

Everyone has their prefered sealant. Much like we all prefer a different beer. Just leave it at that.

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[Gnarly4X]

Just a few more comments on your thread… 

I’m feeling a little old and crotchety today.

First… there’s no such thing as a thread that doesn’t “derail”.  And, in fact, the discussions where the posts are tangential to a main topic are almost always the most informative and most interesting. 

Of course you could be a hypocritical forum deviate and do what 300k and squish do… delete any posts you don’t like.  If you delete my post, I will naturally assume my thoughts or opinions have no value for you and I will go out of my way to avoid sharing any more of my knowledge, suggestions, or opinions with you. 

300k….. so bgen is NOT allowed to “exude” his opinions or his sense of humor? 

You exude bravo sierra every day.  If you really want to know why he thinks what he does about what he uses vs The Right Stuff, why don’t you just ask him? 

Gnarls. 

[Toybrota [OP]]

Just a few more comments on your thread… 

I’m feeling a little old and crotchety today.

First… there’s no such thing as a thread that doesn’t “derail”.  And, in fact, the discussions where the posts are tangential to a main topic are almost always the most informative and most interesting. 

Of course you could be a hypocritical forum deviate and do what 300k and squish do… delete any posts you don’t like.  If you delete my post, I will naturally assume my thoughts or opinions have no value for you and I will go out of my way to avoid sharing any more of my knowledge, suggestions, or opinions with you. 

300k….. so bgen is NOT allowed to “exude” his opinions or his sense of humor? 

You exude bravo sierra every day.  If you really want to know why he thinks what he does about what he uses vs The Right Stuff, why don’t you just ask him? 

Gnarls. 

I refuse to delete anyone's opinions. Even if I don't like what they say.
Much appreciated for the help

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[H8PVMNT]

After using permatex black, Toyota black FIPG and The Right Stuff, I think the Toyota is superior in stickiness and oil resistance, as well as the most forgiving with less than perfect cleanliness.  The Toyota gear oil orange is a bit more pasty and thick than the black.  I just used that on some t-cases.  I would guess it's for high stress applications like the permatex grey. 

I think The Right Stuff is the most finicky for cleanliness and the most important not to over squish, which, I think is why so many people have bad times with it.  The performance of the oil resistant permatex black or other similar FIPG products seem to be a little less great than the Toyota black, but easier to work with than The Right Stuff. 

The advantage of The Right Stuff is supposedly that you can slap the parts together and immediately return to service, but I think it's nice to let it skin over like any other and let it sit before tightening everything up.  And again, clean, clean, clean, like with acetone clean.  BG does go off on The Right Stuff, and he has a lot more day to day experience than most of us, so there is probably a pretty good reason for his opinion.  I had a pretty good experience with it, but you have to remember this was in Dane's shop, where you spend hours making everything almost surgically clean, then when you put on your timing cover, his wife brings you coffee and cookies and you BS for an hour before tightening the bolts.  So I had ideal conditions.  I don't think it's a bad product but I think it requires special attention.  This is not always ideal for what we are dealing with.

The copper spray is excellent on nice paper gaskets on good surfaces.  I have had good experiences with that.

I used some el-cheapo left over paper gaskets on my latest timing cover, slathered in Toyota black.  We will see how that does.

Anyway, having used several products in the recent past, those are my observations. Toybrota is right, It really does come down to personal preference, just know the quirks and limitations of whatever FIPG you are using.

[Toybrota [OP]]

Couldn't have said it better myself. I will use "The right stuff" On basically everything if I need it to be returned to service quickly.

When I get my new motor finished and build, I will use Toyota FIPG. That gives it plenty of time to cure.

When will that motor get done? When my current 22R dies. Could be tomorrow, could be in 5 years. Guess we'll see.

[Toybrota [OP]]

On a completely unrelated note, I've been working on my friends 96' Tacoma.

Supposedly just needs a water pump, which was so obviously bad.

Has a missfire in cylinder #3, changed the sparkplugs and verified good spark. Betting on a clogged injector. Compression was 150PSI on that cylinder, about 20 above from Toyota's low side recommendation.

Having never worked on a 3RZ before, it's almost like deja-vu. Very similar to the 22R in terms of layout.

Hoping to get the water pump installed this week, whenever he gets the part to me.

This Tacoma was inherited from his dad, who overheated it pretty badly. No blown head gasket, surprisingly...



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[blackdiamond]

here's my theory, if youre replacing something. always spend just a little more if you have the room in your pocket for an upgraded/better part. it gives you piece of mind if youre ever in a spot where that extra is needed. Also it will never let you down as its intended for something more. Why not go for the 3 core now and then you wont waste money down the road on the 2 core when you decide a 3 core is necessary. I dont like spending money twice.

As a general rule I absolutely agree with this thought process, but am not sure how it applies to radiators.

If a stock 2 core radiator will provide adequate cooling for a stock application what is the advantage of having more expensive 3 core radiator installed?  With my 22RE I've had never had a cooling issue and been in 105+ degree temperatures on the highway and slow rock crawling in hot temperatures without any issues and I don't think I even have a fan shroud.  If I have a cooling system failure is a 3 core radiator really going to help?  Are you just thinking about having the capacity for future upgrades?

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

I just bought a 3 core and screwed myself cause the 3 cores are taller at the bottom, fitting through the frame farther, and makes contact with steering box i relocated forward. I put in a plastic 2 core ($90) in my 22rte instead of stock copper 3core. after 2 weeks of commuting the temp has stayed the same as 3 core. However, I do not trust the longevity of this cheapo plastic radiator and will buy an all aluminum soon...

[Toybrota [OP]]

You should check the valve clearances, especially the exhaust side on that 3rz if it isn't too late.

It isn't my truck, just a friend's he wanted to sell. I did all the work for him. Just a water pump and a injector, runs great!

Coming from a 22R with noisy valves, the 3RZ is amazingly quiet.

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[Toybrota [OP]]

As a general rule I absolutely agree with this thought process, but am not sure how it applies to radiators.

If a stock 2 core radiator will provide adequate cooling for a stock application what is the advantage of having more expensive 3 core radiator installed?  With my 22RE I've had never had a cooling issue and been in 105+ degree temperatures on the highway and slow rock crawling in hot temperatures without any issues and I don't think I even have a fan shroud.  If I have a cooling system failure is a 3 core radiator really going to help?  Are you just thinking about having the capacity for future upgrades?

Agreed, I only thought of the 3-core for improved cooling in the summer. However, my truck never jumps above half when it's 100 outside...
And I don't have a fan shrowd!

My radiator just has a bad support on the passenger side, I'm sure I could fix it with some plumbing grade solder and a torch. But the risk with that is overheating the metal and melting it.

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[emsvitil]

You won't melt the metal (only the solder) with a plumbing torch.

[:)bestgen4runner]

I have stated this before but I will give it one more try.
The stock temp gauge is almost worthless.
Now that I have a mechanical temp gauge in Myles’s and My 4runner I can tell you that you will not see the temp move off of center until your engine is overheating.
If you only have the stock temp gauge you have no real idea what you temp is or has been.
Emsvitil posted a good write up on this proving my point.

[Toybrota [OP]]

I have stated this before but I will give it one more try.
The stock temp gauge is almost worthless.
Now that I have a mechanical temp gauge in Myles’s and My 4runner I can tell you that you will not see the temp move off of center until your engine is overheating.
If you only have the stock temp gauge you have no real idea what you temp is or has been.
Emsvitil posted a good write up on this proving my point.

I like the idea of a proper temperature gauge!

My current setup of aftermarket gauges is just oil pressure and a Tach right now. My dash is a little cramped.

I think I'm going to do a pod setup like I wanted awhile back. Preferably the A-pillar since it looks the best. Unfortunately the only A pillar pod is $80 from LCE.
I've never tried my hand at fiberglass, I could pick up a stock A-pillar cover and try to make my own pod. Will either be worth it, or a waste of time.
I always could just mount them on my dash pad, but the only thing that will ever go there is a clinometer.
If I ever find one for under $400



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[:)bestgen4runner]

I highly recommend this brand of gauge pod.
http://www.gaugepods.com Lo-tek makes great stuff. I have one installed on My truck and My Son’s. You won’t be disappointed. Get the three gauge pod, only way to go.

[Toybrota [OP]]

I highly recommend this brand of gauge pod.
http://www.gaugepods.com Lo-tek makes great stuff. I have one installed on My truck and My Son’s. You won’t be disappointed. Get the three gauge pod, only way to go.

I am really liking their offering, $70 isn't too bad.

Definitely on the list for this summer. I'd purchase tomorrow if I wasn't saving for my week long trip to Denver coming this June. I'd like at least almost a grand in case something happens to my rig and I need her towed home.

Boy will that trip be fun. 500+ miles, no air conditioning. At least my bench seat is comfy.

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[EASYRYDERDANGER]

Yah I got the 3 gauge pod and my 3rd one is empty!!! Grrr

[Toybrota [OP]]

Well, looks like my exhuast Manifold started leaking. A bolt fell out. Guess that's better than it breaking...

Since my truck is carbed, I run basically no risk of burning a valve with this leak right? It's not bad.
Of course on an EFI truck the O2 sensor would get thrown off which could cause an unbalanced mixture. But I should be fine?

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[:)bestgen4runner]

Well, looks like my exhuast Manifold started leaking. A bolt fell out. Guess that's better than it breaking...

Since my truck is carbed, I run basically no risk of burning a valve with this leak right? It's not bad.
Of course on an EFI truck the O2 sensor would get thrown off which could cause an unbalanced mixture. But I should be fine?

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Incorrect
Every time the exhaust pushes out it also draws in cold air.
If you have ever blown on a fire you know what a rush of cold air can do.
This is the world your exhaust valve is currently living in.
Fix it

[Toybrota [OP]]

Incorrect
Every time the exhaust pushes out it also draws in cold air.
If you have ever blown on a fire you know what a rush of cold air can do.
This is the world you exhaust valve is currently living in.
Fix it

Will do then. I'm missing a whole stud, a bunch of exhuast is blowing out. Quits leaking once I put my finger over the hole. Hopefully it's just a bolt fix. But I'm prepared for it not being that easy.

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[Gnarly4X]

Will do then. I'm missing a whole stud, a bunch of exhuast is blowing out. Quits leaking once I put my finger over the hole. Hopefully it's just a bolt fix. But I'm prepared for it not being that easy.

You must have Superman fingers... I would NOT put my finger on an exhaust manifold after firing the engine even from a cold start!!  Exhaust gas can go over 1000 degrees F!!

Burnt valves on a 22R is probably very rare due to any kind of exhaust leak.  Although certainly possible...in my 32 years owning Toyota trucks, I’ve never heard anyone say “Oh crap… I burnt my valves!”.

Burnt valves on a 22RE, with an O2 sensor would probably throw the ECU off and “see” a lean mixture condition, then go to rich mixture.

The chances of burning an exhaust valve due to an out of spec valve lash or carbon on the valve seat is way more likely.

Exhaust leaks on a 2X head, exhaust manifold, or header is a fairly common issue.

I’m surprised that an exhaust stud has backed out of the head?  I would think that would be extremely rare on a 22 head.  I check my exhaust header or manifold nuts every couple of days on a reinstall until I feel they are always tight.  Then I check them every time I change oil at a minimum.

Gnarls.

[emsvitil]

More likely the threads have pulled  out on the exhaust stud.

Threaded insert or helicoil time.

[Gnarly4X]

More likely the threads have pulled  out on the exhaust stud.

Threaded insert or helicoil time.

I was thinking the same thing, but I didn't want to jinks him. 

Gnarls.

[redneckcustoms13]

Drill and tap to larger size before half assing with a fork you in the butt coil.

[Gnarly4X]

... half assing with a fork you in the butt coil.

I HATE IT when that happens! 

Gnarls. 

[redneckcustoms13]

I dont know how many 22r engines I've gotten from other people who put a heli coil in an exhaust stud location and the when I removed the manifold to replace it or the gasket the helicoil came out to. It's just a half ass way of repairing it. When you can simply drill the hole and tap it, drill the manifold. Problem solved.

[:)bestgen4runner]

The studs get pulled out due to people removing that clamp at the end of the Y pipe. Check to see if it's there.

[Toybrota [OP]]

Well here's what I learned interesting....

I was expecting a stripped out hole, but it looks like I don't have one. But then I seemingly do at the same time?

Anyways, grabbed a stud off of my spare 22R head, the one for my build. Whenever this one blows.

Grabbed a nut and put her in, I threaded the long portion of the stud in and turned it all the way in and it seems stripped as it gets to that awful feeling of resistance then it breaks away.

Pulled the stud and nut out, thread the short portion in with the nut and no feeling of it being stripped at all. In fact, I can crank down on it and it stays tight.

This is obviously how it's NOT supposed to be.

Seemingly enough, it leaked out of the hole, not below the gasket.

So, I have that stud and nut in there and it doesn't leak. I'd say this is a win.

Yes, I know it's not right. Yes I know it could leak again. Yes I know I am stupid.

And yes it doesn't leak.



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[:)bestgen4runner]

But it's completely honest. I commend You.  Points for showing the good and the bad. 
I try to follow the same model.