Topic: 22re full rebuild

[sassparilla_kid]

Hey guys I have an '86 turbo (22rte) pickup that's been giving me problems pretty much the entire time I've had it, so this week (or coming weekend) I'm getting a regular 22re I plan on rebuilding and swapping in. Since this is Commifornia (stupid smog Nazis!) I can't go too crazy with the rebuild but right now the plan is to keep the bottom end pretty stock but go with an engnbldr street rv head (the one with bigger ports/valves) and a little better cam than stock (can't decide between the 261 or the 268). Not really into crawling too much but mostly just want to be able to drive my truck again. I'll try to get some pictures up when I get home

[Toybrota]

You gotta get turbo specific internals

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[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

I'm getting a non turbo (and everything that goes with it) and rebuilding it as a non turbo. The turbo engines suck, terrible mileage, unreliable, gutless, and a nuisance to work on, so I'm ditching the turbo engine and going with a non turbo because a naturally aspirated 22re with a ported head and mild cam makes more power than a factory turbo engine and is easier to work on, more reliable, and should get better mileage  (my turbo gets 15mpg on flat highway going it's top speed of 55)

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Side note it won't let me add any pictures until I have 11 posts (this makes 3) so it might be a minute before I get any posted

[Gnarly4X]

I'm getting a non turbo (and everything that goes with it) and rebuilding it as a non turbo. The turbo engines suck, terrible mileage, unreliable, gutless, and a nuisance to work on, so I'm ditching the turbo engine and going with a non turbo because a naturally aspirated 22re with a ported head and mild cam makes more power than a factory turbo engine and is easier to work on, more reliable, and should get better mileage  (my turbo gets 15mpg on flat highway going it's top speed of 55)

Getting a stock displacement 22RE modified with a ported head and mild cam profile would be somewhat difficult to produce more HP than a stock 22RTE.

If you are only getting 15 MPG with your turbo'd 22, there is most likely something causing your low MPG at 55 MPH.  What is your elevation?

There have been lots of comparisons with turbo vs non-turbo engines, and they produce the same MPG in almost every stage of testing.  Why are most auto manufacturers producing factory turbo'd small displacement engines that are actually producing equal to or better gas mileage than a non-turbo'd version??

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey guys I have an '86 turbo (22rte) pickup that's been giving me problems pretty much the entire time I've had it ....

What are you going to do with your 22RTE?

Gnarls.

[Cheesemaker]

In my build, I went from a 22RTE to 22RE just as you are.  And you might find some useful info. 

You will need the top half of the AFM, and you can reuse the whole intake (which will help with the underhood sticker for the vacuum lines for a visual inspection) and harness.  Will need ECM, injectors, air intake from AFM to TPS, and exhaust.  While you are in there, replace all the hoses, vacuum lines, fuel filter, and get the longer exhaust studs.   

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Well the 22rte (factory turbo) only makes ~20hp more than a stock 22re. In addition, the turbo engine is a nuisance to diagnose problems with (a bunch of the parts are different, and anything you thought you knew about vacuum systems goes out the window since those lines are all pressurized when under boost),over a year of working on it, checking sensors, replacing sensors, new turbo, and it still won't run right, backfires as soon as it builds boost, and for the very short while it actually worked when I first got it a year and a half ago, it still had less power than my buddy's truck with an rv cam, and still got terrible mileae. Had a number of Toyota enthusiasts check it out and nobody can figure out what is wrong with it, and I couldn't get anybody to buy a barely running truck, so I'm ditching all of the turbo junk. And I'm at ~300' above sea level. I think its a combination of not enough time spent developing the turbo and then slapping it on a relatively new fuel injection system (because you know it would have made too much sense for Toyota to license a Jetronic fuel injection system from Bosch like everybody else did)

Even if I only get a 5% increase in power from the new head, 5% from a cam, and maybe another 5% if I go with some headers in the future (I'm guessing these are probably pretty conservative numbers), that would put me at ~130hp, and a 22rte made 135hp from the factory, which is close enough for me (and until the engine blew up my 1974 Mercedes 240D with 62hp from the factory had a LOT more pickup than my truck does right now)

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

What are you going to do with your 22RTE?

Gnarls.

I haven't decided yet, can't decide between selling it or smashing it up into pieces with a sledge hammer because of how much frustration it has caused

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

In my build, I went from a 22RTE to 22RE just as you are.  And you might find some useful info. 

You will need the top half of the AFM, and you can reuse the whole intake (which will help with the underhood sticker for the vacuum lines for a visual inspection) and harness.  Will need ECM, injectors, air intake from AFM to TPS, and exhaust.  While you are in there, replace all the hoses, vacuum lines, fuel filter, and get the longer exhaust studs.

Yeah, I'm getting a whole 22re (and all of the ancillary stuff) out of an '87 so I'm hoping it'll go pretty smoothly. Plan is to rebuild the 22re and then when it's done hopefully swap everything in over a weekend. When you did it was all of the wiring pretty much the same?

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Another thing I'll add about my turbo engine is Inhave never been able to get it over ~3k rpm without backfiring the entire time I've owned it

[Cheesemaker]

The wiring was the same.  I just swapped out ECM.  The coil, igniter, and distributor are the same.   

My FSM says there was some sort of turbo sensor on the pass fender.  But I never found it.  The turbo light stays on the whole time now.  No biggie.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey sassparilla_kid,

Well it sounds like you gave it a good go to fix your 22RTE.  I think it’s not easy to fine tune a stock 22RE, and when you add a turbo, things get more complicated quickly…. even for the experts.  I understand your frustration.

Backfiring and turbos is a common discussed topic and successfully diagnosing the cause can be pain-staking.

I’m old school, so I’m not a big fan of turbos and blowers (I just don’t have the patience or knowledge for the tuning)… but they can make big power gains.  Turn me loose on carb’d 22R and I’ll wager a 6-pack I can get a reliable 150 HP at the flywheel out it.

It’s just my humble opinion… If you rebuild your 22RE *right*, with a torquey to mid-range cam profile, bigger valves and some smart porting, open the exhaust with a Doug Thorley header and 2” to 2.25” smooth exhaust, and fine tuning the poop out of it, you may be around 135 HP.  Keeping a streetable and reliable 22RE while going passed a 135 HP is certainly doable, but it will need some extra performance “stuff” and most likely increasing the bore and stroke.

There is probably a turbo-head out there that can “tune+” a factory stock 22RTE to get any extra 10 or 15 HP out it.  Reliablity and potential failure then becomes a constant risk mitigation factor.

Good luck and please keep us posted on your rebuild. 

Gnarls.

[Toybrota]

It's an automatic isn't it? I've driven an 86 Turbo 4Runner and it was automatic, rather trash I might add...

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[Gnarly4X]

It's an automatic isn't it? I've driven an 86 Turbo 4Runner and it was automatic, rather trash I might add...

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My experience is different.  My first 1986 4x4 22RE was a Longbed AUTOMATIC.  I loved that transmission. It’s performance was unbelievable for rock crawling, mudding, in snow, and totally awesome in the sand dunes!..... and bullet proof.  On the highway and in town driving, the automatic was so comfortable to drive.  The only complaint, and at the time in 1986, I could not find a fix, was climbing steep hills, it would not shift down quick enough.

As far as turbos mated to an automatic transmission, that combination in a vehicle is typically better performing and quicker than the turbo+manual combination.

If Toyota manufactured and sold a brand new 1985 4Runner, 22RTE, with an automatic transmission, as it did in 1985, I would buy it today!!

Gnarls.

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

No automatic here, 5-speed.

[Toybrota]

The one I drove needed a full rebuild, that explains why it was not great.

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[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

The one I drove needed a full rebuild, that explains why it was not great.

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Mine probably needs a full rebuild as well, but for the price of rebuilding, I'd rather have a regular 22re rebuilt for the increased reliability and parts availability

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Since the blocks are pretty much the same between turbo and non turbo (except for the turbo oil feed/drain ports), and since I'm already planning a full rebuild, I'm thinking of just swapping the 22re I'm getting right in to the truck (so I can get back to using it) and then rebuild the turbo engine as a non turbo so I actually have enough time/money to do it right

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

Here's a picture of the truck

[Toybrota]

Truck looks great, If only the turbo parts weren't so darn expensive....

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[Cheesemaker]

The turbo motors are not worth it.  I sold mine for $500 with all the exhaust, piping, injectors and ecm.   Because to rebuild the 22rte correctly, would have cost me well over $4000 to do it right.  And spending that kind of $$ isn't worth it for a 4 cyl. 

[Bad_Vision]

The 22re platform isn't worth the money. It's a maxed out motor.
Sure you can buy a racing 22re with 130hp for $4,000

But you can swap a better engine in for that price, TDI diesel or 5vze are great options. Better power and mpg and I think the VW can be smog passed!

Best of luck but I think your making a mistake with your money.


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[Gnarly4X]

The 22re platform isn't worth the money. It's a maxed out motor.
Sure you can buy a racing 22re with 130hp for $4,000

But you can swap, a better engine in for that price, TDI diesel or 5vze are great options. Better power and mpg and I think the VW can be smog passed!

Best of luck but I think your making a mistake with your money.


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If you are swapping, other than a Toyota engine, and doing a complete conversion, the best bang for your buck is a Chevy 4.3L V-6 Vortec.

That just my opinion - it may be worthless.

Gnarls.

[Bad_Vision]

If you are swapping, other than a Toyota engine, and doing a complete conversion, the best bang for your buck is Chevy 4.3L V-6 Vortec.

That just my opinion - it may be worthless.

Gnarls.

So far I am super happy with my TDI swapped truck everything on the swap was simple. And I think total I have less then 2,000$ into it.
Did my first parking lot test this week and it had major power so exited to take it down the road soon.
The 4.3 is a good engine but diesel is better mpg and power output. The TDI can get 250hp with bolt ons and that's huge from the 100hp stock.
I did it because it was a direct replacement for the 22re meaning to had the same hp stock as the 22re. Plus the car I pulled it from got 40mpg so that's triple the 22re mileage.


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[Gnarly4X]

So far I am super happy with my TDI swapped truck everything on the swap was simple. And I think total I have less then 2,000$ into it.
Did my first parking lot test this week and it had major power so exited to take it down the road soon.
The 4.3 is a good engine but diesel is better mpg and power output. The TDI can get 250hp with bolt ons and that's huge from the 100hp stock.
I did it because it was a direct replacement for the 22re meaning to had the same hp stock as the 22re. Plus the car I pulled it from got 40mpg so that's triple the 22re mileage.


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Diesels on the trails are stinky....unless it's burning peanut oil! 

Gnarls.

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

The 22re platform isn't worth the money. It's a maxed out motor.
Sure you can buy a racing 22re with 130hp for $4,000

But you can swap a better engine in for that price, TDI diesel or 5vze are great options. Better power and mpg and I think the VW can be smog passed!

Best of luck but I think your making a mistake with your money.


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I don't plan on spending nearly that much on the rebuild, and I'd be perfectly happy with an engine that puts out 120hp (stock 22re is like 114hp so 120 or a little more should be easy with just a better head, cam, and exhaust)

[sassparilla_kid [OP]]

If you are swapping, other than a Toyota engine, and doing a complete conversion, the best bang for your buck is a Chevy 4.3L V-6 Vortec.

That just my opinion - it may be worthless.

Gnarls.

I think the CARB referee would have a field day if I showed up with something that big in a Toyota and tried to get it smog approved, we have crazy smog laws here

[Bad_Vision]

Toyota never made the 4runner you speak of. Only 86-87 IFS for 4runner w/turbo (gas) Maybe outside the US but I doubt it

Uh what?
1984-1985 4runner came with 22r, 22re and 22ret options! And the turbo option had a automatic option too!
Factory available options for USA and Canada


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[Bad_Vision]

taken from wiki
 
Thus, the first generation is nearly mechanically identical to the Toyota Hilux. All first generation 4Runners had two doors and were indistinguishable from the pickups from the dashboard forward. Nearly all changes were to the latter half of the body; in fact, because the rear springs were not upgraded to bear the additional weight from the rear seats and fiberglass top, these early models tended to suffer from a sagging rear suspension.

In North America, they were sold from the 1984½ model year from May 1984. For this first year (March to July 1984 production), all models were equipped with black or white fiberglass tops. An SR5 trim package was offered that upgraded the interior: additional gauges, better fabrics, and a rear seat were standard with the package. All 1984 models were equipped with the carbureted 2.4 L 22R engine and were all available with a four-wheel-drive system that drove the front wheels through a solid front axle.

1985 (August 1984 production) saw the arrival of the electronically fuel-injected 2.4 L 22R-E also called 22R-EC I4 engine. This upped the horsepower numbers from 100 hp for the 22R, to 116 hp for the 22R-E Engine, though the carbureted engine remained available until 1988. Additionally, rear seats were available in all 1985 4Runner trim levels, not just the more upscale SR5.

 1986–1989 Toyota 4Runner SR5
In 1986, the Surf/4Runner underwent a major front suspension design change as it was changed from a solid front axle to the Hi-Trac independent front suspension. Track width was also increased by three inches. These changes made the trucks more comfortable on-road, and improved stability and handling. The new suspension also increased the space in the engine compartment (necessary to fit larger engines, such as the V6 introduced in 1987) but arguably decreased the truck's off-road capabilities. The North American specification Toyota Pickup also adopted this new suspension, but the regular Hilux for other markets at this point retained the more rugged and capable, if less refined, solid axle configuration. With the 1986 update, the Surf/4Runner grille changed from the three segment type to the two segment grille. Tops were color-matched on blue, red and some gold models, while other body colors were still sold with black or white tops.

A turbocharged version of the 22R-E engine (the 22R-TE) was also introduced in 1986, although this engine is significantly rarer than the base 22R-E. It appears that all turbocharged 4Runner models sold in the US were equipped with an automatic transmission, though a five-speed manual could still be ordered in the turbocharged pickups. Most turbocharged 4Runners were equipped with the SR5 package, and all turbo trucks had as standard a heavier rear differential later used in the V6 model. Low-option models had a small light in the gauge cluster to indicate turbo boost, while more plush vehicles were equipped with an all-digital gauge cluster that included a boost gauge. Turbocharged and naturally aspirated diesel engines were also available in the pickups at this time as well, but it appears that no diesel-powered 4Runners were imported to the United States.

That's funny because I had a 1984 with 22re because the manufacturing date was closer to 1985... so yeah there's that and yeah a 1984 late model could have a turbo engine if they offered a 22re late year as well.


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