Author Topic: Low range for a 2wd?  (Read 3885 times)

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Techenstein

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Low range for a 2wd?
« on: Nov 20, 2016, 08:26:31 PM »
Q: What's a reasonable way to get a low range on a 2wd?

Background:
22RE, W55, 345K miles (10K on motor)
Rear end is a 3.58:1 (F372) with a Spartan locker
Tire size, if it's relevant, is a BFG all terrain TAs, R14, so it's probably a 26", however when they wear out I will go to a larger rim and tire, not much bigger, but bigger.
1st gear is about 6-7 mph near idle, so it's a bit too fast and too low rpm for climbing up anything. I've gone places where 2wd was not recommended, and I have the traction and reasonable clearance with air'ed down BFGs and the locker, but it's the speed the kills me. I'd like to be able to run faster than idle rpm and slow crawl up things.

Now I know most of you are getting ready to type something about getting a 4wd truck, or converting this into a solid front axle 4wd, and all that is nice and is probably the smart thing to do, but I want to see if doing the crazy thing is an option. Cost is always a factor in the real world, but let's remove that concern for now. Larger concerns are PITA factor, scope of effort, and reliability.

  • Tranny swaps? Maybe a 4wd W56 with transfer case, and just no front shaft?
  • Underdrive bolt on? Maybe there is a reduction unit that goes on the tail shaft of my W55? Electric shift would be great.
  • Rear end ratio? When I looked at that, even a 5:1 rear end only reduces the idle speed to 4mph which doesn't seem like enough.
  • Custom Marlin crawler 2wd W56 with crazy low first gear? :greengrin:


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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #1 on: Nov 20, 2016, 08:59:17 PM »
Hmm... While i hate that you're keeping this as a 2wd, I really like the challenge...

If I had a gun to my head for the fastest and easiest way, I'd suggest using a 4wd transmission, with its accompanying transfer case and crossmember.

The trans will bolt right to your engine, them with the crossmember bolted to the trans, trace where it lines up on your frame.

You can drill and run a lag bolt or weld it on from there..

Look forward to reading other ideas

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1993 Standard cab chassis. 1989 Extended Cab. 22R-E BO .020, ENGNBLDR 261c cam, Doug Thorley Tri-Y header, Straight Pipe through a Flowmaster 40, ARB Rear Locker, York OBA with fabricated bracket.
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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #2 on: Nov 20, 2016, 10:29:22 PM »
Another option that has been done, run 2 transmissions.
read and comment :whip:

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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #3 on: Nov 21, 2016, 07:21:49 AM »
Regear the axle or find a trans and tcase.
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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #4 on: Nov 21, 2016, 07:33:14 AM »
I would re gear diff, you could also find a w58 from supra/celica. I believe 5th gear is taller. will help with freeway driving
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kneedownnate

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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #5 on: Nov 21, 2016, 09:50:50 AM »
But 1st gear is taller, kinda killing his intent.  My 81 2wd came with the 4 speed, which I eventually upgraded for a celica 5 speed since I couldn't find a truck tranny.  1st gear was noticably taller and more annoying, but I rarely took it off road since it sat pretty low
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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #6 on: Nov 21, 2016, 02:24:05 PM »
Does a crawl box/doubler have the same bolt pattern for 2WD and 4WD?  If so, this would be ideal for space requirements.

Otherwise, I think it would be easiest & cheapest to set it up with a 4WD trans and t-case.  It would also be ready for you to put the straight axle under the front.

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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #7 on: Nov 23, 2016, 09:10:53 AM »
Does a crawl box/doubler have the same bolt pattern for 2WD and 4WD?  If so, this would be ideal for space requirements.


The back half of the transmissions are different.  So the 2wd trans won't accept the transfer case.
 
Miss ya Dean (4THEWKN) & Kyle (KYOTA)!!

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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #8 on: Nov 23, 2016, 04:35:32 PM »
Regearing the 3rd would help some, but it wont put your engine speed high enough to not stall the engine when trying to crawl.  5.29's with the 26"(assuming mounted size of about 24" tall), 5mph the rpm is 1320, 3mph/792rpm, 1mph/264rpm, and about 150rpm's higher w/a 4.313 1st.

For what you would want to do, you would have better results swapping in a Toyota 4wd trans/t-case/rear driveline, or retaining the 2wd trans and using a divorced transfercase.  With either one, you would want to regear the 3rd to match the tires you are running, otherwise you wont get the most out of the lower gearing you are wanting the t-case for.

If crawl speed isn't something you would use often, you could swap in an auto trans and use the brakes to slow the speed down.
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Techenstein [OP]

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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #9 on: Nov 29, 2016, 09:50:06 PM »
Thanks for all the feedback so far. So far it looks like a W56 w/ T-case is the way to go, but @Snowtoy Autotranny suggestion is an interesting one.

How hard of a conversion is that? I know nothing about what autos attach to a 22RE. Is there a computer involved?

It would serve the purpose of torque control for the occasional crawl. The goal is not to be a full time crawl rig, just to take it to those places once or twice a year that are marked "4WD only"  :thumbs:

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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #10 on: Nov 30, 2016, 12:35:14 AM »
The A43D is a 4-spd auto that was controlled by a throttle position sensor. itt was used behind both 22r's and re's from '81-'95 2wd's, and should be a direct bolt in.  Another option w/better gearing would be the A430E that was in '86-'92 Supra's, not sure if it was electronic or TPS controlled, and unsure of what bell housing would need to be used.

Another option would be to find a divorced underdrive set-up, I think Klune makes one that can be set-up w/yoke input and output, you would then use a short driveline to connect the trans to the underdrive, and another to connect the underdrive to the rear axle.

If it were me, I would opt for the 5-spd and transfer case, auto's mated to most Toyota engines prior to the 3.4 were horribly boring to drive, you would have 5 low speed gears, along with the ability to regear the t-case if the stock gears weren't low enough for your use.

Cost wise, the auto would likely be only a couple hundred, the 5-spd/t-case for around $400-? depending on what work you can do yourself, the Klune route would likely run $2k+.

'90 black X-cab mod'd 3.0, 33's/4.88's, rear ARB, custom bumpers, sliders, safari rack, etc.
'91 Blue X-cab 22re, 35's/5.29's,Truetrac front, ARB rear, dual cases, and custom Safari flatbed, bumper, interior.
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redneckcustoms13

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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #11 on: Dec 06, 2016, 05:18:32 PM »
In case you didn't already know. The simple bolt up a 4wd w56 will require you to cut out the factory cross member and mount another one. All 2wd I've seen have a welded in cross member.
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #12 on: Dec 06, 2016, 06:12:11 PM »
In case you didn't already know. The simple bolt up a 4wd w56 will require you to cut out the factory cross member and mount another one. All 2wd I've seen have a welded in cross member.

How do you drop the transmission with a welded cross member?
Ed
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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #13 on: Dec 07, 2016, 02:50:02 PM »
Never done it, I snatched that 2wd slush box junk with the 22r bolted to it. But I imagine you would unbolt it from the engine, slide it back far enough to clear the engine, lower it then pull it out under the engine?
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
01 double cab hunting truck
06 tacoma street truck

kneedownnate

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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #14 on: Dec 11, 2016, 12:20:03 PM »
My 91 has a welded in crossmember, while my 81 had a bolt in crossmember.  81 was way easier to swap tranny or clutch, 91 I tried but gave up when I found it welded in.  If I had a lift and more skill, I'd cut it out and modify it to be removable.
RIP KYOTA

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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #15 on: Dec 11, 2016, 03:08:32 PM »
pardon me if someone has said this already,  Find a 2wd with the 8 inch G code diff from a 2wd truck.  they are out there trust me.  then if it doesnt have the G292 code already you can swap out the carrier and pinion from a 4wd with 4.10 most stock 4wd, 4.30 from 4wd with auto trans,  4.37 from 79-80 trucks with a 4speed.


the big question is, what do you intend to use the truck for?  eventual 4wd conversion? or to have a really deep option when pulling a trailer (makes backing super easy) and it makes getting a heavy load moving like having a big block  :driving:
« Last Edit: Dec 11, 2016, 04:37:56 PM by 79coyotefrg »
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Re: Low range for a 2wd?
« Reply #16 on: Jan 02, 2017, 02:51:49 AM »
You can buy a 5.72:1 gearset here: http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/374710
Would that make the difference? It'd certainly be an easier and possibly cheaper option.
green200b, aka Alistair

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