Author Topic: NWTI Rear Plate Bumper (Read 25563 times)

OTO Phil · « **on:** Oct 04, 2016, 01:29:21 AM »

Here's the rear bumper we test fitted tonight.

There's a tiny bit of trimming to do, but the shackle hangers are a solid piece of 5/8" that will be welded to the frame rails.

The holes will house a flush fit LED pod like this.

I'm planning on using this as a platform to build a swing out tire/jerry can/hi-lift carrier.

I'd like to add a hitch receiver, and a beam at the rear of the frame rails to tie into it.

Anyway, NWTI is a really great SW WA business, and the owner (pictured) is a really great guy!

Any thoughts?

jimbo74 · « **Reply #1 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 02:56:34 AM »

I think it will look good when it is all done, but you might want to a a leaf or 2 to your springs :x

OTO Phil · « **Reply #2 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 05:24:07 PM »

Quote from: jimbo74 on Oct 04, 2016, 02:56:34 AM

I think it will look good when it is all done, but you might want to a a leaf or 2 to your springs :x

Yeah, I'm planning on upgrading to Chevy 63s.. I'm just waiting to finish the bumper so that I can set it up for the right weight..

SqWADoosh · « **Reply #3 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 05:38:07 PM »

Really like NWTI's bumpers. I suggest against a swing away. If I had it to do over again I wouldn't have gotten mine. It makes my truck ridiculously nose light and causes me to not be able to walk up stuff that bestgen goes up with ease because of what is more or less a big counterweight I've got in the back.

OTO Phil · « **Reply #4 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 05:39:47 PM »

Quote from: SqWADoosh on Oct 04, 2016, 05:38:07 PM

Really like NWTI's bumpers. I suggest against a swing away. If I had it to do over again I wouldn't have gotten mine. It makes my truck ridiculously nose light and causes me to not be able to walk up stuff that bestgen goes up with ease because of what is more or less a big counterweight I've got in the back.

Well, in the front i plan on building another plate bumper, and bolting on my 8274 with the 150 feet of cable... It should be a pretty good counter weight.. Whatcha think?

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SqWADoosh · « **Reply #5 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 05:42:10 PM »

Quote from: excabswap on Oct 04, 2016, 05:39:47 PM

Well, in the front i plan on building another plate bumper, and bolting on my 8274 with the 150 feet of cable... It should be a pretty good counter weight.. Whatcha think?

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I've got a heavy as F bumper in the front and winch too. The problem is that you've put an excab body on a standard frame. You've already added a bunch of weight over the back of the truck. Just going to make it worse. You are pretty much in the same boat as me except without the weight of a top. Though it does it with my 10lb soft top all the same.

OTO Phil · « **Reply #6 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 05:48:01 PM »

But then how could I get cool profile pics like yours?

I've thought about putting the spare tire in other locations, but what do you suggest? I'm not opposed to the bed, but I haven't seen any good mounting ideas that look functional... Just "cool" like the slant spare every brorunner has

SqWADoosh · « **Reply #7 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 06:55:06 PM »

Quote from: excabswap on Oct 04, 2016, 05:48:01 PM

But then how could I get cool profile pics like yours?

I've thought about putting the spare tire in other locations, but what do you suggest? I'm not opposed to the bed, but I haven't seen any good mounting ideas that look functional... Just "cool" like the slant spare every brorunner has

I suggest you knock many birds out with one stone and do a custom flatbed. There is a great thread on Pirate showing all the different ones guys have come up with.

blackdiamond · « **Reply #8 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 07:55:53 PM »

Quote from: excabswap on Oct 04, 2016, 05:48:01 PM

But then how could I get cool profile pics like yours?

I've thought about putting the spare tire in other locations, but what do you suggest? I'm not opposed to the bed, but I haven't seen any good mounting ideas that look functional... Just "cool" like the slant spare every brorunner has

Flat in the bed as far forward as possible. I had a mount in my 85 that bolted to the bed with a backing plate and attached to my spare with three wheel studs.

blackdiamond · « **Reply #9 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 07:57:11 PM »

Quote from: SqWADoosh on Oct 04, 2016, 06:55:06 PM

I suggest you knock many birds out with one stone and do a custom flatbed. There is a great thread on Pirate showing all the different ones guys have come up with.

Wouldn't a flat bed weigh more than the bumper?

SqWADoosh · « **Reply #10 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 07:59:07 PM »

Quote from: blackdiamond on Oct 04, 2016, 07:57:11 PM

Wouldn't a flat bed weigh more than the bumper?

With a flat bed he could extend out his wheelbase to the sweet spot of 112-115". Which would mitigate the issue.

OTO Phil · « **Reply #11 on:** Oct 04, 2016, 08:54:45 PM »

Eventually I'll extend my wheelbase with the addition of dual cases and 63s.. but for now I've got the stock 102" wb

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Snowtoy · « **Reply #12 on:** Oct 05, 2016, 10:14:22 PM »

What gauge steel did he use, looks like it is going to be heavy?

Quote from: excabswap on Oct 04, 2016, 05:48:01 PM

I've thought about putting the spare tire in other locations, but what do you suggest? I'm not opposed to the bed, but I haven't seen any good mounting ideas that look functional... Just "cool" like the slant spare every brorunner has

What are your plans, expo or rock crawling only? If primarily expo or both, go with the swing out for storage space, with a mount in the bed for rock trails where you need the clearance for steep climbs.

Weight off the rear axle can be problematic, but its not like you are wheeling a jeep. Here is a 3rd gen Runner a buddy had, and he never had an issue with a swing out standing him up or clearance on steep climbs.

Willard · « **Reply #13 on:** Oct 06, 2016, 02:46:45 AM »

Mine has a good amount of weight on the back and I don't have any issues of wheel stands, but that may be the difference between mine being all tubing vs the plate bumper???

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SqWADoosh · « **Reply #14 on:** Oct 06, 2016, 07:09:39 AM »

The difference in those trucks is the amount of distance between the rear axle and the end of the body. Like I said he could mitigate this by doing a flatbed and then changing his rear axle's location to the end of the truck. This would also fix a departure angle issue he is going to have as well. I have all these problems right now but with me being a 4Runner I'm going to have to fix it by cutting into body and doing a 9" stretch. If I had it to do over again I would have just built an excab and saved myself a lot of hassle.

:)bestgen4runner · « **Reply #15 on:** Oct 06, 2016, 07:44:48 AM »

Quote from: SqWADoosh on Oct 06, 2016, 07:09:39 AM

I have all these problems right now

blackdiamond · « **Reply #16 on:** Oct 06, 2016, 11:57:25 AM »

Quote from: SqWADoosh on Oct 06, 2016, 07:09:39 AM

The difference in those trucks is the amount of distance between the rear axle and the end of the body. Like I said he could mitigate this by doing a flatbed and then changing his rear axle's location to the end of the truck. This would also fix a departure angle issue he is going to have as well. I have all these problems right now but with me being a 4Runner I'm going to have to fix it by cutting into body and doing a 9" stretch. If I had it to do over again I would have just built an excab and saved myself a lot of hassle.

Are you planning/dreaming of bobbing the 4Runner and extending the wheelbase?

As you know I previously wheeled an bobbed 85 extra cab truck and have wheeled often with CrankyCrawler that drives an 84 long bed truck that have what I consider to be a nearly perfect wheelbase. Now that I'm driving my 89 4Runner that's built nearly identically to CrandyCrawlers truck it's pretty easy to compare the two rigs. It helps that our driving styles are nearly identical. As much as I miss the long wheelbase of the 85 at times there's no way I would ever consider taking the time or spending the money to try and duplicate the wheelbase and departure angle that it had. The gain in wheeling capability simply isn't worth what it would take to make the changes.

On the Moab trip you saw Rob and I wheel pretty much all of the same spots. There were a select few places that his wheelbase made the difference (Z-turn on Moab Rim is the only one that I can think of that he made it up and I couldn't on the same line) and it didn't cause me to have any less fun on the trip.

In your shoes, I wouldn't even consider messing with the wheelbase. I think the risk of ending up with a trailer queen buggy thing is too high. I can't argue with how awesome a bobbed 4Runner would be as my departure angle is really the one things that bugs me compared to the 85. I would find a way to mount your spare tire inside flat on the floor as far forward as you could. There was a couple of places (the entrance to the Escalator comes to mind) in Moab where I am certain that the counterbalance that the spare tire provided was making things more interesting for you than the other 4Runners. Just relocating that weight could prove significant. Also, the dual ultimate gearing would be on my "to do" list.

I really think you're underestimating how well your 4Runner performs now and would likely be disappointed in the improvement that you would see from extending the wheelbase.

At some point, the goal shouldn't be to have the ultimate truck because then you have to work so much harder to challenger yourself and your rig. For me, at least, I enjoy the challenge and sometimes wish that I had to work a little harder in the 4Runner. Point and go isn't compelling. Being me, even if I had selectable lockers I couldn't bring myself to not use the lockers just to make it harder because I know that doing so is harder on the rig.

SqWADoosh · « **Reply #17 on:** Oct 06, 2016, 12:05:49 PM »

Quote from: blackdiamond on Oct 06, 2016, 11:57:25 AM

Are you planning/dreaming of bobbing the 4Runner and extending the wheelbase?

As you know I previously wheeled an bobbed 85 extra cab truck and have wheeled often with CrankyCrawler that drives an 84 long bed truck that have what I consider to be a nearly perfect wheelbase. Now that I'm driving my 89 4Runner that's built nearly identically to CrandyCrawlers truck it's pretty easy to compare the two rigs. It helps that our driving styles are nearly identical. As much as I miss the long wheelbase of the 85 at times there's no way I would ever consider taking the time or spending the money to try and duplicate the wheelbase and departure angle that it had. The gain in wheeling capability simply isn't worth what it would take to make the changes.

On the Moab trip you saw Rob and I wheel pretty much all of the same spots. There were a select few places that his wheelbase made the difference (Z-turn on Moab Rim is the only one that I can think of that he made it up and I couldn't on the same line) and it didn't cause me to have any less fun on the trip.

In your shoes, I wouldn't even consider messing with the wheelbase. I think the risk of ending up with a trailer queen buggy thing is too high. I can't argue with how awesome a bobbed 4Runner would be as my departure angle is really the one things that bugs me compared to the 85. I would find a way to mount your spare tire inside flat on the floor as far forward as you could. There was a couple of places (the entrance to the Escalator comes to mind) in Moab where I am certain that the counterbalance that the spare tire provided was making things more interesting for you than the other 4Runners. Just relocating that weight could prove significant. Also, the dual ultimate gearing would be on my "to do" list.

I really think you're underestimating how well your 4Runner performs now and would likely be disappointed in the improvement that you would see from extending the wheelbase.

At some point, the goal shouldn't be to have the ultimate truck because then you have to work so much harder to challenger yourself and your rig. For me, at least, I enjoy the challenge and sometimes wish that I had to work a little harder in the 4Runner. Point and go isn't compelling. Being me, even if I had selectable lockers I couldn't bring myself to not use the lockers just to make it harder because I know that doing so is harder on the rig.

Me and you are very different people and wheelers. After some inner debate I have decided to stretch the wheelbase 9" rather than bob. I can't afford to lose the interior space that a bob would cause and I seek to have a longer wheelbase (115" AKA the sweet spot). My rear fenders are $%*&#$ anyways so it is no loss. Mounting my spare inside the truck is not an option. The rear of my truck is always full on the way to the trail, due to the fact that I always camp. I think if you were to take my truck on some of the obstacles that I have taken it on and gotten as nose light as I have you would have a different opinion on the need to fix this issue. If the stretch doesn't fix the issue then next will be to ditch the carrier all together and not have a spare. I may very well do this anyways if/when I end up with a tow rig that I can put a spare in. That way if I get into a blow out situation that a plug can't solve I will just have to have a buddy go down trail and get my spare for me out of the back of the tow rig.

mudmaster · « **Reply #18 on:** Oct 06, 2016, 01:01:18 PM »

The only issue I see with no spare is places like Moab that it may be awhile before someone can get back to you with your spare. That beinging said, you wheel with alot of Toyotas so using their spare is also a possibility.

SqWADoosh · « **Reply #19 on:** Oct 06, 2016, 01:06:34 PM »

Quote from: mudmaster on Oct 06, 2016, 01:01:18 PM

The only issue I see with no spare is places like Moab that it may be awhile before someone can get back to you with your spare. That beinging said, you wheel with alot of Toyotas so using their spare is also a possibility.

I'm pretty confident that the stretch will fix my issues while making the truck much more capable at the same time. Shouldn't need to get rid of the spare. Also once I have a tow rig I can transfer spare into the runner after setting up camp for areas like Moab.

blackdiamond · « **Reply #20 on:** Oct 06, 2016, 01:31:58 PM »

Quote from: SqWADoosh on Oct 06, 2016, 12:05:49 PM

Me and you are very different people and wheelers. After some inner debate I have decided to stretch the wheelbase 9" rather than bob. I can't afford to lose the interior space that a bob would cause and I seek to have a longer wheelbase (115" AKA the sweet spot). My rear fenders are $%*&#$ anyways so it is no loss. Mounting my spare inside the truck is not an option. The rear of my truck is always full on the way to the trail, due to the fact that I always camp. I think if you were to take my truck on some of the obstacles that I have taken it on and gotten as nose light as I have you would have a different opinion on the need to fix this issue. If the stretch doesn't fix the issue then next will be to ditch the carrier all together and not have a spare. I may very well do this anyways if/when I end up with a tow rig that I can put a spare in. That way if I get into a blow out situation that a plug can't solve I will just have to have a buddy go down trail and get my spare for me out of the back of the tow rig.

You are correct that we approach wheeling differently and as a result won't necessarily have the same wants/needs for our rigs.

You might figure out how to do some A/B wheeling with and without the spare tire and see how much of a difference it makes. It's an relatively easy proof test compared to the next planned evolution. You could easily drop the spare in camp on an upcoming trip. The rear overhang definitely give it a lot of leverage, especially when nose up.

OTO Phil · « **Reply #21 on:** Oct 15, 2016, 02:16:32 AM »

Alright, got the parts back after Corey adjusted some of the dimensions.

Looks great so far. The hanger is made from beefy 5/8" steel. Fits great!

Now, normally, his mounts have a droop in them so that you don't have to cut your bed, but he made these specifically straight for me because I have a body lift and I wanted the hanger/shackle mount to be as straight off the frame rails as possible.

Here is the top plate of the bumper. It is mounted resting on top of the mount, with the shackle hanger holes extruded past the back side of the bumper.

His design is really great because I can't stand seeing the weld-on shackle hangers. For Hi-Lift function, you can just lift from the shackle.

I'm hoping to get some more done tomorrow. This is where I'll probably post the entire build of it unless it should be elsewhere..

Snowtoy · « **Reply #22 on:** Oct 15, 2016, 10:06:44 AM »

Any idea of the finished weight, the hangers have to be 40-50lbs alone.

:)bestgen4runner · « **Reply #23 on:** Oct 15, 2016, 10:57:49 AM »

That sounds like its going to be way heavy. Maybe even dare I say "To heavy"

Going to pull wheel stands Like SqWaDoosh. Looks cool but not functional.

OTO Phil · « **Reply #24 on:** Oct 15, 2016, 06:28:06 PM »

All of the steel pieces excluding the two mounts weigh in at 26.9 kgs. or 59 lbs. Add in a pound more for the welding wire I suppose, and that's not really that bad. The stock bumper and tow hitch weighs about 50 lbs, so I'll accept the difference.

At 110 lbs in addition to what the front bumper weighs, I'm sure my 8274 will be more than enough to compensate for the rear bumper

blackdiamond · « **Reply #25 on:** Oct 15, 2016, 06:40:46 PM »

And here I run synthetic winch line to save weight...

OTO Phil · « **Reply #26 on:** Oct 19, 2016, 10:51:42 PM »

Here's the weight in kg of the entire bumper plates minus the mounting brackets:

Anyway, made some progress tonight:

Just need to tack the sides and bottom..

Snowtoy · « **Reply #27 on:** Oct 20, 2016, 11:37:46 AM »

Will likely be a few pounds heavier once the seams are welded.

Are you going to add in any internal braces where the likely impact points will be? Might also want to consider bracing/mounts for the sides, it will help to prevent them from being pushed up into the bed sides.

OTO Phil · « **Reply #28 on:** Oct 20, 2016, 03:08:41 PM »

Quote from: Snowtoy on Oct 20, 2016, 11:37:46 AM

Will likely be a few pounds heavier once the seams are welded.

Are you going to add in any internal braces where the likely impact points will be? Might also want to consider bracing/mounts for the sides, it will help to prevent them from being pushed up into the bed sides.

I'll be adding internal braces on the sides, and the corners. As for the rear, I'm considering some gussets, but the top plate sits right on the mount, and the rear face will be welded all the way around the mount. There's also a bottom side to all of this, so in the end, it'll basically be a large 'C' channel

OVRAROK · « **Reply #29 on:** Oct 20, 2016, 03:51:40 PM »

Bumper looks great

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