Topic: Am I at the end of 22re power upgrades or is their something else?

[Aaronm]

I am hoping their is something else that I haven't thought of that I can do to the 22re to squeeze 10or more horses out of it. I have the following done to my 22re in an 85 4Runner with 35s and 5:29 gears.

1.) Davez 268 cam
2.) motor rebuild@30,000 miles ago
3.) LCE header
4.) 2.5 exhaust high flow cat and flow master all mandrel bent
5.) Supra AFM
6.) Trail Gear intake
7.) intake swapped to cold side of engine battery moved to opposite side.
8.) swapped late model straight upper intake with bored throttle body on its way (thanks Ovarock)

Without throwing a turbo or supercharger on it is their anything else that can be done for less than 500$?

Thinking of these
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-22RE-2-4L-Pickup-Bosch-4-hole-Fuel-Injector-UPGRADE-1983-1987/152013573565?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38618%26meid%3D02a4dbe4ce884d76ae3ee1ca4ec2ba32%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D261238752845
Has anyone tried these out?
Also kicking the idea around of buying a new head with oversized valves.

Thanks for any input I know it's a 4 cylinder that was never engineered for power but I want to take it to its furthest limit power wise before moving on.

[:)bestgen4runner]

Index the spark plugs. Not a monster power gain but it works guaranteed.
Costs very little other than your time.
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/mor-71900?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-moroso&gclid=CKTAm5jm284CFYGAfgod_zgN0g

[Gnarly4X]

Some things I’ve learned from owning a Toyota truck since 1986 (14 Toyota vehicles including 4 Toyota trucks).

For the 20R, 22R, and 22RE…..

Blue printing an engine rebuild for a specific application should be considered carefully.  Admittedly, I should have done more research before starting my current 22RE rebuild.

 The question is, what do you do and why?

What RPM range do you want your peak power increase?

Are you rockcrawling (low RPM torque), mud thrashing (mid to high RPM torque, Baja racing (high RPM WOT HP), daily driving, pulling a trailer (mid-range RPM freeway speeds).

Does the engine/vehicle have to pass EPA testing?  Are you budget limited?  Are you time constrained?  Can you do the work or do you have to pay someone? Should you risk buying a short block, long block, or turn-key?

Are reliability, maintenance, and gas mileage issues?

As discussed here recently, non-engine differential gear ratios and tire size changes can have a significant impact on transferring the multiplied torque to the tires.

Upgrading a previous rebuild (unknown specs) may require a slightly different approach to upgrades for performance gains.

Other than major block, head, and component modifications, aftermarket engine management systems, turbo and supercharging, arguably, the typical performance gains from a stock engine are mostly incremental - that added together can make an estimated additional 10 to 30 HP.

There are lots of opinions, shared experiences, touted aftermarket products, and backyard mods, but I see very little test data that will back up the performance gains with certified dyno tests – either engine dyno or chassis dyno.  So, we mostly rely on our butt dyno, word of mouth, whatever the “experts” tell us, supplier’s recommendations, Internet Bravo Sierra, and our infamous forum discussions.

As an example….it seems there is some debate that bolting on a 4-in-1 header and 2 ˝” pipe and turbo muffler may or may not maximize the torque gain or HP at the RPM range you want for a stock 22RE.  In fact, you most likely will lose some valuable low end torque from off-idle to 3000 RPMs.

TUNING is very critical to getting the most out of these engines, especially the 22RE.  Spark plugs, cap and rotor, plug wires, and ignition timing is very important to accurately set and properly maintain.  Proper valve lash is also important.  Are all the sensors working properly?  Pumping high viscosity crank case oil can suck power. 

As in the Sonny and Cher 1967 Top Ten Hit song “And The Beat Goes On”…   

“The beat goes on, the beat goes on
Drums keep pounding
A rhythm to the brain
La de da de de, la de da de da”

That's just my worthless opinion.

Gnarls. 

[H8PVMNT]

Adjustable cam gears make a noticeable difference in where your power is and allow you to dial in the cam timing to a kind of sweet spot.

[Aaronm [OP]]

Index the spark plugs. Not a monster power gain but it works guaranteed.
Costs very little other than your time.
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/mor-71900?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-moroso&gclid=CKTAm5jm284CFYGAfgod_zgN0g

So the idea with these is to place the electrode in the optimum place for igniting the most fuel ? I haven't heard of these before now. Interesting I will do some research and look into this. Thanks

[Aaronm [OP]]

[/quote]

Some things I’ve learned from owning a Toyota truck since 1986 (14 Toyota vehicles including 4 Toyota trucks).

For the 20R, 22R, and 22RE…..

Blue printing an engine rebuild for a specific application should be considered carefully.  Admittedly, I should have done more research before starting my current 22RE rebuild.

 The question is, what do you do and why?

What RPM range do you want your peak power increase?

Are you rockcrawling (low RPM torque), mud thrashing (mid to high RPM torque, Baja racing (high RPM WOT HP), daily driving, pulling a trailer (mid-range RPM freeway speeds).

Does the engine/vehicle have to pass EPA testing?  Are you budget limited?  Are you time constrained?  Can you do the work or do you have to pay someone? Should you risk buying a short block, long block, or turn-key?

Are reliability, maintenance, and gas mileage issues?

As discussed here recently, non-engine differential gear ratios and tire size changes can have a significant impact on transferring the multiplied torque to the tires.

Upgrading a previous rebuild (unknown specs) may require a slightly different approach to upgrades for performance gains.

Other than major block, head, and component modifications, aftermarket engine management systems, turbo and supercharging, arguably, the typical performance gains from a stock engine are mostly incremental - that added together can make an estimated additional 10 to 30 HP.

There are lots of opinions, shared experiences, touted aftermarket products, and backyard mods, but I see very little test data that will back up the performance gains with certified dyno tests – either engine dyno or chassis dyno.  So, we mostly rely on our butt dyno, word of mouth, whatever the “experts” tell us, supplier’s recommendations, Internet Bravo Sierra, and our infamous forum discussions.

As an example….it seems there is some debate that bolting on a 4-in-1 header and 2 ˝” pipe and turbo muffler may or may not maximize the torque gain or HP at the RPM range you want for a stock 22RE.  In fact, you most likely will lose some valuable low end torque from off-idle to 3000 RPMs.

TUNING is very critical to getting the most out of these engines, especially the 22RE.  Spark plugs, cap and rotor, plug wires, and ignition timing is very important to accurately set and properly maintain.  Proper valve lash is also important.  Are all the sensors working properly?  Pumping high viscosity crank case oil can suck power. 

As in the Sonny and Cher 1967 Top Ten Hit song “And The Beat Goes On”…   

“The beat goes on, the beat goes on
Drums keep pounding
A rhythm to the brain
La de da de de, la de da de da”

That's just my worthless opinion.

Gnarls. 

Thanks for the input. I really want to increase the power available for pulling long grades. I find myself rowing the truck up the hill between 3rd and 4th gear.

[Aaronm [OP]]

Adjustable cam gears make a noticeable difference in where your power is and allow you to dial in the cam timing to a kind of sweet spot.

So who makes the most reasonably priced adjustable cam gear?

[Gnarly4X]

So the idea with these is to place the electrode in the optimum place for igniting the most fuel ? I haven't heard of these before now. Interesting I will do some research and look into this. Thanks

Indexing spark plugs in 22 might get  you some improvement in the combustion chamber.  Some combustion chambers and head designs may actually create better flame propagation and turbulent velocity with the gap facing in a different degree angle from the exhaust valve - which is often cited as the proper valve to point the spark plug gap.

Some head designs might show improved combustion and flow by indexing the plug gap to the intake valve.

Without testing, you probably won't really know.  A stock 22 on an engine dyno, it may be difficult even record a 1% or 1 HP improvement in the torque numbers.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

So who makes the most reasonably priced adjustable cam gear?

I would buy the one that LCE sells.

Gnarls.

[Aaronm [OP]]

Ok adjustable cam gear will be next. Has anyone run the 4 spray pattern fuel injectors? I can see how they could possibly get the fuel and air mixed better than a 2 spray pattern injectors but I can also see where just a cleaning and flow matched set may be hard to improve on.

[emsvitil]

The 22RE is batch fire, don't think the injectors will do anything......

[knucklebuster]

Delete your belt driven fan and install a electric thermo switched one.. I haven't done it yet but my buddy swears I frees up more hp than installing header n exhaust, he does it to all his rigs.

[Gnarly4X]

... don't think the injectors will do anything......

I agree.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

... frees up more hp than installing header n exhaust ....

Whoaaa... that means the fan on the engine is sucking some MAJOR power!!...... I don't think the stock fan is that much of a parasitic drain!!

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

Switching a conventional belt-driven radiator fan to an electric fan(s) typically will gain 1/2 to 1% in torque or HP numbers.  Gaining incremental power by reducing power-consuming systems can't hurt if you don't mind increasing your cost/increase ratio.

Some guys here have posted comments that they really noticed the difference when installing electric fans, but others have not noticed much difference.   

NASCAR engines run 0-5W crankcase oil and electric fans for a reason.

Gnarls.

[RobertSDriver]

I just installed a set of the Flame Throwers a month ago after reading posts of power and mileage gains, Also replaced the fuel pump, cap, rotor, wires and iridium plugs. I didn't experience any improvement of either. I contacted the seller and he was happy to do a refund. but I couldn't justify the time and work swapping them back out. They didn't make it any worse.

[emsvitil]

What are Flame Throwers ?

[Gnarly4X]

What are Flame Throwers ?

http://www.pertronix.com/

Gnarls.

[emsvitil]

I didn't think of that,  even though I have a flame thrower coil and pertronix 1 on my 64 Valiant to replace the points.

Got the 3 ohm coil so I wouldn't have to bother with ballast resistor, and figured it was matched to their ignition.


You'll only notice improvements if your vehicle was in need of a tuneup or actually needed some of the parts replaced......

[Gnarly4X]

I just installed a set of the Flame Throwers a month ago after reading posts of power and mileage gains, Also replaced the fuel pump, cap, rotor, wires and iridium plugs. I didn't experience any improvement of either. I contacted the seller and he was happy to do a refund. but I couldn't justify the time and work swapping them back out. They didn't make it any worse.

Like many topics, this one can be controversial.

Upgrades to electrical on a 22 is a reasonable consideration.  My problem is that I have never found any proof of claims by the manufacturers or any dyno tests by someone who has upgraded.

Platinum resistor (low EMI) spark plugs are the best choice for ECU 22s in my opinion.

Most spark plugs have copper cores, but differ in electrode metal.  Iridiums will provide longer life, and known to go 100K miles in new cars with no degradation in performance - my 2013 Corolla has factory Iridiums.  Power and gas mileage gains between copper, platinum, and iridiums is probably negligible, however iridiums are known to fire under more extreme conditions, like lean mixture.  Copper, softer metal, electrode spark plugs are better conductors but will wear and burn quicker than platinum or iridium.

The bottom line is you can spend less money on copper, and change them more often, spend a little more money on platinums and enjoy the ride, or you can spend more money on iridiums and not have to change plugs for 100K miles.  Now, if want to upgrade the stock electrical system to Flame Throwers, MSD, or Crane, I'd would go with the manufacturers recommendations on spark plugs.

I have mostly installed platinum spark plugs in my vehicles and I haven't tried iridium plugs in my 22s but I would like to just for the experience.

By the way, you may have read people recommending or using anti-seize compound on spark plug threads... that is NOT recommended by plug manufacturers.  I have always sprayed just a little silicone lube on the threads and never had a problem.

Also, proper torque specs are important for spark plugs, but just be careful.  My 1986 FSM says 13 ft-lbs.  NGK says 18 to 21.6 ft-lbs for their BPR5EY plugs for aluminum heads.  18 ft-lbs on my torque wrench starts to feel a little heavy for me. Cross threading spark plugs in a 22 seems not uncommon.  I always look at the slight angle of each cylinder in the head as I install spark plugs.

Keeping the cap & rotor fresh is important on these 22s.  I like the solid core plug wires.

That's just my worthless opinion.

Gnarls.

[john90lux]

Sc14 + points delete with, decent coil and plugs
Just under your $500

[Gnarly4X]

Sc14 + points delete with, decent coil and plugs
Just under your $500

For crawl speeds will you need an intercooler?  Does the $500 include an intercooler?

What compression ratio will the 22 need to be?

What octane fuel would be recommended?

Gnarls.

[Snowtoy]

1.) Davez 268 cam
2.) motor rebuild@30,000 miles ago
3.) LCE header
4.) 2.5 exhaust high flow cat and flow master all mandrel bent
5.) Supra AFM
6.) Trail Gear intake
7.) intake swapped to cold side of engine battery moved to opposite side.
8.) swapped late model straight upper intake with bored throttle body on its way (thanks Ovarock)

Also kicking the idea around of buying a new head with oversized valves.

Thanks for any input I know it's a 4 cylinder that was never engineered for power but I want to take it to its furthest limit power wise before moving on.

The O/S valves should be your next mechanical upgrade.

Port matching the intake and head with the intake gasket is cheap, and will help a little w/air flow. 

If the "cold air" intake is sucking engine bay air, it will not help with performance, as its ability to draw more air into the engine isnegated by it being heated air.  If you have some fab skills, you can isolate the intake and plumb an outside air source to feed the intake, wrapping the intake tubing an intake isolation chamber with DEI "cool tape", will keep the air at outside temp until it reaches the intake manifold.  This is what I designed about 18yrs ago for my 3.0

On a 95* day at idle the engine bay side was 135*, the intake chamber was 98*.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Snowtoy... .where you been!!   I have missed your "input".     

Yes, a change in intake air temperature on my dyno software will show a change in Tq and HP.  Ambient air intake temperature on a stock 22RE from 60d F to 100d F you will drop about 4 lbs of average Tq and about 4 HP.  So about 1 lb. of torque and 1 horsepower drop for every 10d F the intake air temperature raises.

Air density is usually higher with lower air temperatures, but not necessarily always.

Driving my 22R 1985 during cooler AZ temps and higher relative humidity there was a noticeable increase in power... not a lot, but I could feel it.

Gnarls.

[Rocksurfer]

Whoaaa... that means the fan on the engine is sucking some MAJOR power!!...... I don't think the stock fan is that much of a parasitic drain!!

Gnarls.

I once had a fan clutch seize so that it always spun at full velocity, it not only caused a severe decrease in mpg but definitely started using up my HP on the highway so I could see that if it were not there you may at times experience a HP increase when it is in full lockup mode climbing a hill on the highway. Still I just run the oem fan setup.   

[Rocksurfer]

The O/S valves should be your next mechanical upgrade.

Port matching the intake and head with the intake gasket is cheap, and will help a little w/air flow. 

If the "cold air" intake is sucking engine bay air, it will not help with performance, as its ability to draw more air into the engine isnegated by it being heated air.  If you have some fab skills, you can isolate the intake and plumb an outside air source to feed the intake, wrapping the intake tubing an intake isolation chamber with DEI "cool tape", will keep the air at outside temp until it reaches the intake manifold.  This is what I designed about 18yrs ago for my 3.0

On a 95* day at idle the engine bay side was 135*, the intake chamber was 98*.

Nothing but cool air and bugs with a snorkel.

[Gillesdetrail]

Changing your EFI to megasquirt with dyno tuning will really show the true potential to all your mods, a bigger cam, o/s valves, head and intake porting. I have an adjustable cam gear and it only moves your powerband around to adapt to what you want. Mine runs best at 0 setting for the broadest powerband. For the trail I advance it 2 degrees as the engine doesn't die out as easily at idle while crawling obstacles, but power drops sooner at the higher rpm.

[Aaronm [OP]]

Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far to this thread.  You guys have helped me narrow down the options for what I will experiment with next into 3 stages. Feel free to throw in your  on the ideas.

Step 1
I plan on swapping in an electric fan, bumping up the AFM a tooth or two, and building a sheet metal barrier between the air intake and the engine. I have thought of also experimenting with an air scoop or several well placed holes behind the grill to force/direct outside air around the air filter.

Step 2
Adjustable cam gear, one step hotter plug to help burn the extra fuel from bumping up the air flow meter.

Step 3
Buy enginebldr.com head with porting and oversize valves.

 I yanked the upper intake manifold off this last weekend and I am polishing the inside as far back as I can reach. I know this is a very small thing but looking at several upper intakes it should help in the long run by eliminating places for the nasty oil/dirt/gunk to build up. Has anyone had experience polishing a upper intake that can tell me how to get inside the individual tubes? I can get a dremmel and sand paper about an inch in and thats about all.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Aaronm,

Based upon your target performance gain:  “really want to increase the power available for pulling long grades. I find myself rowing the truck up the hill between 3rd and 4th gear.”

Keep in mind that for these 22s, especially the 22R, it will lose about 3 to 4 HP for every 1,000 feet increase in elevation.  If you are pulling a grade or two and climb 2,000 higher you’ll drop about 6 or 8 HP.

I like your idea to experiment and tweak your engine performance.  However, based upon your process of modification to gain incremental power, I would be careful to make sure you understand and monitor the changes. I would make one change or modification at a time.

For example, going to a hotter spark plug may or may not gain any power caused by “bumping up the AFM a tooth or two”.  Can you read spark plugs?  If you are serious about analyzing your modifications, I would suggest you consider installing a good A/F meter and carefully read the spark plugs.  I would make sure I have a new O2 sensor and that the knock sensor is working properly.  I would make sure the ignition timing is set properly and see that it is advancing correctly under RPM change.  If you haven’t already considered it, a 3 row radiator may be a good idea for added cooling capacity and run fresh coolant at 50/50 mix.

As you know, you’ll be at the higher end of your RPM range for several minutes when pulling long grades, developing very high combustion chamber and header temperatures. A hotter spark plug may cause serious over-heating, pre-ignition, burn the top of the pistons, or toast the exhaust valves. If your gas is ethanol blended, you can actually go to a colder plug and advance your timing slightly.

Since you are into the finer tweaking stages, you can also consider lubricants.  Lowering viscosities in your tranny, t-case, and diffs will help lower parasitic drag.  I like Redline 75-85 for my diffs, and MTL for my tranny & t-case, and 10-30w Mobil 1 in my crank case.

TJMWO…

Please keep us updated on what you discover by your changes and modifications.

Gnarls.

[Aaronm [OP]]

Hey Aaronm,

Based upon your target performance gain:  “really want to increase the power available for pulling long grades. I find myself rowing the truck up the hill between 3rd and 4th gear.”

Keep in mind that for these 22s, especially the 22R, it will lose about 3 to 4 HP for every 1,000 feet increase in elevation.  If you are pulling a grade or two and climb 2,000 higher you’ll drop about 6 or 8 HP.

I like your idea to experiment and tweak your engine performance.  However, based upon your process of modification to gain incremental power, I would be careful to make sure you understand and monitor the changes. I would make one change or modification at a time.

For example, going to a hotter spark plug may or may not gain any power caused by “bumping up the AFM a tooth or two”.  Can you read spark plugs?  If you are serious about analyzing your modifications, I would suggest you consider installing a good A/F meter and carefully read the spark plugs.  I would make sure I have a new O2 sensor and that the knock sensor is working properly.  I would make sure the ignition timing is set properly and see that it is advancing correctly under RPM change.  If you haven’t already considered it, a 3 row radiator may be a good idea for added cooling capacity and run fresh coolant at 50/50 mix.

As you know, you’ll be at the higher end of your RPM range for several minutes when pulling long grades, developing very high combustion chamber and header temperatures. A hotter spark plug may cause serious over-heating, pre-ignition, burn the top of the pistons, or toast the exhaust valves. If your gas is ethanol blended, you can actually go to a colder plug and advance your timing slightly.

Since you are into the finer tweaking stages, you can also consider lubricants.  Lowering viscosities in your tranny, t-case, and diffs will help lower parasitic drag.  I like Redline 75-85 for my diffs, and MTL for my tranny & t-case, and 10-30w Mobil 1 in my crank case.

TJMWO…

Please keep us updated on what you discover by your changes and modifications.

Gnarls.

I think I can get all the questions answered. Yes I did start this process with a tuned up engine running the best it has ever run so knock sensor, throttle position sensor, timing, new supra AFM and ? were all performing like they should. I can read spark plugs so I will be checking these as I play with the AFM and the hotter plug. The hotter plug idea came from Pirate4x4s faq version 2. Not that I take everything from that site as Gospel but I know anyone that posts on that particular site has to know something about what they are talking about or they will be heckled for months. I do like the idea of synthetic fluids I will add these to the list.

Here is another good site I found

http://www.lcengineering.com/LCTechPages/522R_REpowerupgrades.html