Author Topic: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study  (Read 35791 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

H8PVMNT

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« on: Aug 16, 2016, 10:03:54 AM »
As most regulars on this forum know, a couple years back I yanked out my 3RZ swap from my 4runner and put in a 1981 carb 22r.  The 3RZ was great but I had some electronic gremlins that just didn't make any sense.  After spending about $400 replacing what OBDII thought it was and spending hours testing voltages and reference signals, I sold the whole swap with the issues advertised and used the funds to go the extreme opposite and rebuilt the early 22r I had sitting in a greasy pile in my garage.

I have been very happy with the stock Aisan Carb for off road and reliability, and have learned a lot along the way.  A lot of guys like to ditch the Aisan carb for a Weber, mainly for the simplicity.  Results seem to vary.  People seem to love them or hate them.  The popular Weber 32/36 is nearly the same CFM as the stock carb, it's easy to get jets, tune, and possible to make work off road with the right mods.  I can see why people use them.

I really wanted to learn the nuances of the stock carb, however, and also wanted to build a stock, baseline 22r to objectively measure other modifications against over time.

What I have found was that while these Aisan carbs seem complex with all they extra vac lines and piggy-back systems, they are really pretty easy to understand.  The trick is to break down the systems in your head and look at them one at a time.  This is particularly useful if you want to attempt to de-smog the carb.  Some of the extra systems that woud seem like emissions junk actually do a lot for drivability, cold starts and even help the carb deal with altitude changes.  What you find if you go through the list and highlight everything that is worth keeping, you have a lot of stuff you actually DON'T want to delete. If you understand EFI, this stuff basically works like a mini-EFI system operated by temperature and vacuum. I will get into this later.

There are a few pretty good threads on rebuilds and de-smogging the Aisan carb and some good rebuild tech.  I will probably post links to these threads for additional reference.

My goal for this thread is to show a good, understandable rebuild and really get into the different systems and what they do.  I do not want to discuss why Webers are or aren't better.  There is plenty of good tech and information on that subject :).  Any useful information anyone wants to add is great, but I don't want to collect a bunch of bench racing theory, I would appreciate only data gleaned from personal experience.  I will even promise not to get off topic or post pics of my kids (unless they are working on a carb), my house, lifestyle or even tasty or fury animals.



I also want to tell you what I have found re-jetting and tuning for additional performance as well.  The fun thing that I have found with carb is that a relatively small, cheap amount of effort can make a large seat of the pants change.

The Aisan carb is all ready very good off road and can be made even better with a few tricks.  I will get into these tricks later on.

By no means do I have these all figured out, but I am learning a lot fiddling and living with with the carb.  I am not the Aisan carb master, but I want to be!

I have been putting this thread off for too long.  I have a loose carb on my desk so I am going to start this thread with a cheap, dirty performance trick I am working on...





« Last Edit: Aug 16, 2016, 02:59:39 PM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #1 on: Aug 16, 2016, 12:24:33 PM »
Non-Progressive Mod:

My buddy Billy (an old racer) and I were looking at a loose Aisan 22r carb at the kitchen table the other night and discovered that if you bend the little tab on the linkage that opens the secondary you can make it nearly non-progressive, so the secondary starts opening at maybe 1/5 throttle and actually opened fully before the primary is even finished.  We were worried there wouldn't be enough fuel available for it to actually work, but the secondary fuel supply is vacuum operated so it gives it what it needs when it needs it in theory.

I was on a road/camping trip last weekend and we had dirt road to play on and highway travel to test mileage so I decided try do this tweak on the 4runner and see what happened.

Wow, what a difference!  The Aisan 22r carb is very lame duck progressive, which is nice for off road control but the 22r has so much more potential for throttle response!  I was shocked and honestly didn't know they could be like that.  We got a nice little kick in the seat at about 1/4 throttle.  It pulls about twice as hard in 2nd gear and gets into the upper rpms WAY faster.  I'm not saying it was a total game changer but it was a very surprising and noticeable improvement considering it took about 30 seconds and was totally free.

On the highway acceleration is improved by I would say 10% or maybe more and it pulls hills better to a point as well. The downside to all this is that we maybe got 10 mpg highway with this mod, so I bent the tab back after blowing through a half a tank in 80 miles :).  It did not seem to be doing too bad on gas on the backroads, just when we got in the highway.

I think secondary tweak is a valid modification but I still need to refine it.  The secondary is not really factory adjustable as far as I can tell other than bending the little tab a bit.  The tab normally pushes on a little spring end.

If you bend it in it will push on a solid part of the linkage and start the secondary opening much sooner.  So the way it is you can have stock or performance mode.  One problem we saw on the loose carb with the tab bent is that the secondary is full open before the primary is even done.  The throttle bottoms out so you never achieve wide open throttle on both plates with the tab bent. 

Looking at it the tab could be filed or bent to adjust this timing, but you can only bend something so may times before it breaks, so I'd like to make a cleaner method of fine tuning this.

Below are two photos showing the tab and the way it hits the spring end in stock position and the how it pushes on the linkage directly when bent...



« Last Edit: Aug 16, 2016, 03:22:56 PM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #2 on: Aug 16, 2016, 12:43:45 PM »
In the stock position the secondary plate starts opening at about 40 degrees of rotation, fully open at about 80 degrees.

With the tab bent secondary is starting to open at about 15 degrees, fully open at about 55 degrees and you can't really get the primary fully open in this position because you no longer get full rotation of the throttle.

I thought developing a way to put the position somewhere in between the two would be better and maybe even help the 10 mpg gas sucking problem.  I tried a few things but ultimately just putting a zip tie on the tab got me secondary opening at about 24 degrees, fully open at about 64 degrees rotation and primary has full travel as well.

I did a test run pulling a hill outside of town and the zip tie got me 5 mph at 1/8 mile during acceleration. 


I pulled the hill at the same speed by the time I got to the top though, which makes sense because you are getting wide open throttle either way. So this mod really just helps with acceleration and throttle response more than anything when we call BS on it with an objective test.  You will notice the effect of this mod the most when you are already cruising in 2nd or 3rd gear, just into the gas and then you step into the pedal and at a certain point you get a little launch you didn't expect, well for a 22r anyway ;).

I think ideally drilling a tiny hole in the tab and putting a small key ring through it would be the most viable, since you could choose economy or performance in 10 seconds by putting the ring in the tab. Other than maybe bending the tab and filing it into the right height to get perfect WOT on both the primary and secondary plates.

Anyway the zip tie works pretty well but I can't see it lasting very long.  Maybe just keep a zip tie in your glove box for drag racing  :).

« Last Edit: Aug 16, 2016, 03:06:17 PM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #3 on: Aug 16, 2016, 02:08:15 PM »
OK now we've made the truck go faster so we can move on to real deal tech...

Bear with me here as I explain this like you don't know anything about how a carb works, as that is where I started. EFI generation you know ;).

Lets start by looking at how the carb dumps fuel and air into your intake when you step on the gas since that's the part most of us like the best. 

Most people know the throttle plates/butterflies open up when you twist on the throttle.  There seems to be a lot of confusion about the secondary on this particular carb though.  Some of the older Aisan carbs and many found on Toyota cars have a secondary that opens up just a tiny bit mechanically, and then a vacuum operated diaphragm takes over from there.  There is even a neat mod for this that improves throttle response but it doesn't belong in this thread, because...

The 22r carb is quite a bit different, with the throttle plates themselves being completely mechanical.  The photos below show the throttle plates shut, then the primary open at 40 degrees twist on the linkage (where it is at about 1/2 gas pedal) and then wide open throttle at 80 degrees of rotation.  Look at the tiny primary. No wonder opening the secondary sooner makes better throttle response!

I really like to make engine noises when I play with this.  It helps to include a BWAAAAH sound when the secondary opens.
« Last Edit: Aug 16, 2016, 02:27:37 PM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #4 on: Aug 16, 2016, 02:23:53 PM »
The primary is on the passenger side of the truck and has the choke plate on top of it.  We'll discuss the choke later.  This plate is kind of limp-open when things are warmed up.  The plate on the drivers side of the carb I have my finger stuck in is called the "air valve", or sometimes "secondary air valve".  Here's where it gets weird. The air valve is loosely sprung to the closed position and basically responds to vacuum sucking on it when you open the throttle secondary, at which time it twists a little cam to lift a needle out of a jet and let more fuel into your intake.

So while the secondary throttle plate is completely mechanical, the secondary fuel is metered based on demand by vacuum. 

OK so remember then that this carb likes a certain amount of vacuum to operate how it was intended to!  This will become more relevant and make sense when I get into some of the tuning finds I stumbled onto that somewhat contradict conventional wisdom.
« Last Edit: Sep 07, 2016, 07:36:26 AM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #5 on: Aug 18, 2016, 07:17:16 AM »
This thread will be a work in progress for a while. I hope to be rebuilding a carb with my son in a week or two so I will get into some more good stuff soon...
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #6 on: Aug 25, 2016, 10:02:41 AM »
Testing the zip tie on a full tank of gas starting today.  We'll see if it kills fuel economy or not...
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #7 on: Aug 29, 2016, 09:21:12 AM »
Testing the zip tie on a full tank of gas starting today.  We'll see if it kills fuel economy or not...

Ran through 8.8 gallons in 107 miles for 12.16 mpg. We were getting maybe just under 10 mpg with the tab bent, full non-progressive mode.  The zip tie split the difference between stock and non-progressive.  So it seems the timing of the secondaries is pretty consistent with highway mpg and the sooner they hit the more fuel it sucks.  I have determined this is just a nice little trick for throttle response, not viable for daily driver duty.

I took the zip tie back off. :)
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #8 on: Aug 29, 2016, 01:49:18 PM »
Yeah I know, 1981 called, it want's it's member's only jacket and it's fuel delivery system back.
« Last Edit: Aug 31, 2016, 07:42:17 AM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

ryantowry_81

  • Offline Crawler Guru
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 196
  • Posts: 408
  • Member since Dec '12
  • Crawling with Marlin
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #9 on: Aug 29, 2016, 04:24:36 PM »
subscribed!!

Keep up the interesting research. :beerchug:

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #10 on: Aug 31, 2016, 03:36:44 PM »
After putting the secondaries back to stock with the zip tie off, purposely driving like an idiot with a bunch of around town driving I got 15.5 mpg on the last tank.
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #11 on: Sep 06, 2016, 03:06:56 PM »
De-smogging?

Well be careful.  There are a bunch of things in that vac line spaghetti that help with drivability, not just emissions. 

Think of the aisan 22r carb as a small efi system, ran by vacuum and temperature instead of electronics...

It really helps to look at these various systems one at a time.  I went though the manual line by line, taking note of what systems my particular carb had, which items do something for you and which don't.  If it's purely emissions, maybe delete if you can do it cleanly.  If it helps your engine run properly, consider keeping it.



One of the top of the list to keep is this little bugger, the HAC (High Altitude Compensator).  It has a diaphragm in it that reacts to atmospheric pressure as you change altitude.  As the diaphragm changes position, it opens and shuts vac passages and adjusts your mixture and your timing advance for you as you drive from sea level to the divide, which is exactly what we do in my 4runner.  I still notice ALOT more power at lower elevations, especially under 2,500 feet, but this device keeps you from having to re-tune and re-jet for elevation changes as you wheel and road trip. 

If a weber could do this everyone would love them.




« Last Edit: Sep 06, 2016, 03:48:49 PM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #12 on: Sep 06, 2016, 03:38:33 PM »
Has anyone ever taken an engine apart and not seen everything to do with the EGR plugged up with soot?  Me neither.  Arguably, the EGR system lowers combustion chamber temps, but it seems to me that it's main function is dumping little bits of carbon into your head.

So for me the EGR gets a NO.



I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

300k

  • Offline Crawler Guru
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 3744
  • Male Posts: 646
  • Member since Jun '15
  • GREEN NAME MAN BAD!
    • View Profile
    • Please ban me!
          OK!
      I am banned!
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #13 on: Sep 06, 2016, 04:00:33 PM »
So for me the EGR gets a NO.

:O LUCKY! If I did that, the gov't would give my truck a "NO."
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

Truer words have never been spoken...

Gnarly4X

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 3814
  • Male Posts: 3,191
  • Member since Jun '16
  • Marlin and I slid "The Sluice" Martinez Canyon
    • View Profile
    • Buy me some coffee
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #14 on: Sep 06, 2016, 04:55:50 PM »
Doesn't the ECU monitor the EGR?  If you block it, will it confuse the ECU on a 22RE???  :dunno:

Did my 1985 22R have an ECU that monitored the EGR?  I think it had an O2 sensor?

If I block off my EGR on my 22RE will it get an extra 1/2 horse power!! :gap:
 
Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Oct 05, 2016, 04:21:26 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Mudder

  • Offline Crawler Guru
  • ****
  • Turtle Points: 3448
  • Posts: 584
  • Member since May '15
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #15 on: Sep 06, 2016, 06:22:44 PM »
Doesn't the ECU monitor the EGR?  If you block it, will it confuse the ECU on a 22RE???  :dunno:

Did my 1985 22R have an ECU that monitored the EGR?  I think it had an O2 sensor?

If I block off my EGR on my 22RE will is get an extra 1/2 horse power!! :gap:
 
Gnarls.

First off it's a 22r Gnarly  ;) no ECU. But yes you can block off the EGR on a truck that doesn't have cali emissions.

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #16 on: Sep 07, 2016, 07:13:53 AM »
This is '81 stuff on a 1984 truck harness and it has no O2 sensor.  I might install one for an air/fuel gauge sometime though.  And yes we are lucky not to have to dink with emissions here. :)
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

emsvitil

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 5556
  • Male Posts: 3,409
  • Member since May '07
    • View Profile
    • emsvitil's album
    • Buy me a soda
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #17 on: Sep 07, 2016, 11:51:24 AM »
The 85 22RE ECU is too stupid to monitor EGR.

Other than not passing a visual on the smog test,  you'll end up with high Nox on the sniffer.

But it will run just fine.
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

kneedownnate

  • Offline Gold Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 1006
  • Male Posts: 9,746
  • Member since Oct '04
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #18 on: Sep 08, 2016, 11:00:56 PM »
This is kinda what I've been waiting to see you post on.  Since I will be swapping a 22r carb onto the 20r intake, and the truck is completely void of all smog stuff (yes, I live in california, too), I fear I'll need to source and install some stuff to make it run ok.  I only have a vacuum line for distributor advance and brake booster.
RIP KYOTA

You can go through life being scared of the possible, or you can have a little fun and tease the inevitable.

Give a man venison, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to hunt Blacktail, he'll be frustrated for life!

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #19 on: Sep 09, 2016, 06:58:25 AM »
This is kinda what I've been waiting to see you post on.  Since I will be swapping a 22r carb onto the 20r intake, and the truck is completely void of all smog stuff (yes, I live in california, too), I fear I'll need to source and install some stuff to make it run ok.  I only have a vacuum line for distributor advance and brake booster.

That might be worth a thread of it's own. Do you have to run everything the carb you are using came with or everything the truck came with?  The '81 22r stuff looks identical to my '80 20r stuff.  That might be your ticket if you can source a whole set of '81 emissions junk for your carb.  I might even have a smog (air injection) pump for you.
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

kneedownnate

  • Offline Gold Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 1006
  • Male Posts: 9,746
  • Member since Oct '04
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #20 on: Sep 10, 2016, 06:32:16 AM »
I don't have to run anything it came with  :gap:  I just need the minimum to make the 22r carb work well.  I have no emissions stuff at all on mine and would rather not have to install any smog crap
RIP KYOTA

You can go through life being scared of the possible, or you can have a little fun and tease the inevitable.

Give a man venison, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to hunt Blacktail, he'll be frustrated for life!

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #21 on: Sep 10, 2016, 11:23:58 AM »
I don't have to run anything it came with  :gap:  I just need the minimum to make the 22r carb work well.  I have no emissions stuff at all on mine and would rather not have to install any smog crap

OK so yo just need what makes it run good.  I'll try to get off my arse and finish posting what I am running...
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #22 on: Feb 24, 2017, 08:04:37 AM »
I was answering a cold start question for a guy and remembered where to get main jets in different sizes for tuning.  You can use Hitachi main jets.  They fit and have the same number system as our Aisan jets.  I got a 116 from these guys...

http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_hitachi_main_4H7.html


Here is an assortment of Hitachi jets next to a Toyota jet. Options!

« Last Edit: Mar 15, 2017, 10:44:59 AM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

kneedownnate

  • Offline Gold Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 1006
  • Male Posts: 9,746
  • Member since Oct '04
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #23 on: Feb 25, 2017, 11:09:01 PM »
OK so yo just need what makes it run good.  I'll try to get off my arse and finish posting what I am running...

I'm still waiting.  Can I blame not working on it due to my laziness and the bad norcal weather on you instead?  :gap:
RIP KYOTA

You can go through life being scared of the possible, or you can have a little fun and tease the inevitable.

Give a man venison, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to hunt Blacktail, he'll be frustrated for life!

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #24 on: Feb 27, 2017, 02:19:54 PM »
I am about to take a little more stuff off my carb.  I think it will be stripped down to nearly the bare minimum, so I will comment on it after I see how it runs for a bit.  As far as external bits go, I will be running just the choke stuff and the HAC if it all goes according to plan.  Give me about a week :).
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #25 on: Mar 14, 2017, 04:04:15 PM »
I was messing around trying to get some more material for this thread and found that my electric choke was not functioning any more.  Took it off for inspection and it literally fell apart. Stay tuned for some more, er, less stuff...

I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #26 on: Mar 15, 2017, 07:46:42 AM »
Part of the reason people hate the Aisan carb is all the complex looking junk on the back side of the carb, this junk is the choke opener, choke breaker and that cluster of little metal pieces is the "fast idle cam".  Well I found out my electric choke quit working and when I was messing with that I noticed one of the important springs in the "fast idle cam" cluster was limp and causing the setup to be non-functional.

Now this winter I noticed my cold start and warm up happened at much lower RPMs than last winter.  I dialed it all in and it started well at sub-zero temp anyway.  This leads me to believe that many of these features are not necessarily needed.

So I decided to take it all off...

I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #27 on: Mar 15, 2017, 07:52:10 AM »
Then I figure out that if you spin this little tab on the choke shaft upside down and backwards it makes a perfect hook up for a $10 manual choke.

I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

  • Offline Silver Turtle Award
  • *
  • Turtle Points: 451
  • Male Posts: 3,501
  • Member since May '07
  • I'LL NEVER MAKE IT...
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #28 on: Mar 15, 2017, 07:57:53 AM »
So now we have a manual choke and a ton less junk on the back side of our carb.  What does an aftermarket setup have on the Aisan carb at this point?  We have a 326 CFM carb but we are still sucking air through a straw.  This may be OK because it's cold air, but I thought it would be fun to see what happened.  By shedding the stock filter box you also deleted the HAI (hot air intake) and the MC valve, which is supposed to cut fuel and reduce the poppity-poppity when you decelerate.

LC adapter for a 5.125" generic air filter...

I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

fireitup

  • Offline Rock Master
  • ***
  • Turtle Points: 530
  • Posts: 177
  • Member since Feb '17
    • View Profile
Re: H8PVMNT's Aisan 22r Carb Tech /Study
« Reply #29 on: Mar 15, 2017, 08:09:50 AM »
Great info in this thread! My truck lives in South Louisiana and really doesn't need any of the mess related to cold start/fast idle but for a couple of times a year.  You may have inspired me to do some mod's myself!

 :beerchug:

Although it would be nice to snow wheel around in Montana every once in a while...
82 Pickup - 22R : OME NitroChargers/Springs : Timing Chain @ 180K

 
 
 
 
 

Related Topics

3 Replies
930 Views
Last post Nov 25, 2013, 09:44:12 PM
by Toyota Addiction
3 Replies
1225 Views
Last post Dec 03, 2013, 05:09:28 AM
by _HOIST_
41 Replies
8781 Views
Last post Feb 27, 2018, 11:29:21 AM
by AZ Rockit
11 Replies
2253 Views
Last post May 06, 2017, 05:59:10 PM
by Gnarly4X
79 Replies
14135 Views
Last post Aug 15, 2017, 07:13:40 AM
by H8PVMNT