Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild

[RUGER]

Hey Ruger.... Yeah I thought of that.  If it true, does that mean the tranny will need to be disassembled by Marlin?... or can me, myself, and I, just remove the input housing and replace the bearing?

I gotta a bad feeling I WILL have to drop the tranny!!!... I'd rather be mauled by an Alaskan Grizzly!! 


Gnarls.

gnarls

if you wanna have a rebuilt tranny but marlin itll be awesome. the input bearing means dropping the tranny and i know thats yer least favorite thing. 
i rebuilt my tranny back when i was in college with my dad so easily 15 years ago. if i remember right my input gear got screwed and cluster gear went with it. rebuilt whole tranny with him except fer synchros fer some reason. like i said its been awhile. inside the bell housing theres an access panel to the input shaft. theres a bearing pressed onto the shaft. i cracked the nose of my old input shaft getting the old bearing off(i was able to get a new one from a buddy that worked at a gear/tranny shop, got a new cluster gear from him to). im not sure if you can get it all done from that access cover fer the input shaft or not.

RUGER

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Hey Ruger...

Well... I have a gut feeling I will have to drop the tranny to see what is going on.

If the noise is the input shaft bearing, and I cannot replace the bearing without disassembling the tranny, I will have someone do it - Marlin or my local tranny shop?

I am going to wait before I drop the tranny. I have too many family life things on my plate right now.

Since I replaced the head from engnbldr, I need to find out if the engine is still burning 1 quart of oil in 600 miles.  If it does, I will park the truck for awhile until I decide if I will pull the engine and attempt another rebuild myself, or buy a long block from 22RE Performance.  One option suggested was to pull the engine and replace the rings, but at that point I might as well completely rebuild it.  I'll probably end up buying a long block from 22RE Performance.

I've learned a lot about this rebuild project, mostly what I didn't know and should have known.  Unfortunately I trusted one of the most reputable and respected suppliers and my local machine shop.  I also badly underestimated the cost and hours of labor.  Now I have some strong opinions about what is really involved in successfully rebuilding one of these 22s that will last 250,000 or 300,000 miles.

Gnarls.

[RUGER]

gnarls

hope it all works out.

if you need a hand i can possibly help you out.

thats a lot of oil

RUGER

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

gnarls

hope it all works out.

if you need a hand i can possibly help you out.

thats a lot of oil

RUGER

Thanks Ruger.  I appreciate your kind offer.   

If you ever come down off your mountain and get down to the Phoenix area, let me know - dinner is on me!!   

Gnarls.   

[RUGER]

likewise if you come to flagstaff.
edit: but i'm buying or grilling.

RUGER

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Another boring update:  July 5th

I started the truck to move it and I did not hear the squeak I heard last week-end?

The leak in the rear diff is gone after replacing the pinion seal.

The leak in the oil pump is gone after replacing the engbldr oil pump with at the original factory oil pump I saved during the rebuild.

I cannot determine for sure where the oil is coming from at the back of the oil pan and the bottom of the bell housing. It’s a slow drip.  It could be from the rear main seal! Or it’s leaking from the back of the oil pan.  I used the “Toyota” seal method with Permatex Ultra Black and a bead around the pan, no gasket.  I will NOT do that again.  This time I will use a gasket and Ultra Black, like a Japanese Ishino Stone, Mahle, Fel-Pro, Beck Arnley.

The rear main crankshaft seal is the one that came in the engnbldr complete rebuild kit. It will not surprise me that it may have failed.  The gasket failures from that kit is pathetic. The head gasket failed, the grommets on the rocker cover failed, the rocker cover gasket failed, and the oil pump string gasket seal and/or harmonic balancer seal failed.

I can only assume that most, if not all, of those gaskets and seals were from DNJ and were defective or Chinese junk.

Knowing what I know now, I would have purchased Toyota factory seals and gaskets. Based upon my comparisons of seals and gaskets, I will only buy and use several brands other than Toyota – Fel-Pro, Beck Arnley, and Timken to name a few.

Dropping the front axle to replace the oil pan gasket or dropping the tranny to replace the rear crank seal are two of my most dreaded jobs!!  BUT… I hate oil leaks!!

The garage was only 101d F yesterday, so I’ll have to work a couple hours in the early morning.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

UPDATE:  OCTOBER 1, 2021

Well.... it's been way too long to get back into working on my 1986 Xtracab.

Much more important "life things" took over last year and most of this year.

I had to put my truck project on the backburner and working in my garage when it's a 115d F kicks my old butt.

The weather here in sunny AZ is cooling down, so I hope to be back into my garage and start back up with fixing my oil leak and diagnosing my engine tick.

Gnarls. 

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

UPDATE:  OCTOBER 9 2021

I re-adjusted the valve lash this morning just to make sure the lash was not out that was causing my rocker tick.

The lash was within spec.

I was able to diagnose the tick.  It appears to be the Doug Thorley header gasket. 

It is on cylinder number 4.

I'm disappointed that it didn't even make it 30,000 miles??

I ordered a new DT gasket and I'll inspect the exhaust leak area to see what failed.

Gnarls.

[mudmaster]

Use a copper gasket.......

[OVRAROK]

https://www.jegs.com/i/SCE+Gaskets/829/9415A/10002/-1?gclid=Cj0KCQjwwY-LBhD6ARIsACvT72Pxgxwm6ykKksU7Dg9v-PdBovpt4mL0ZG1F41_5WBko8zxjQfnRz10aAscnEALw_wcB

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

https://www.jegs.com/i/SCE+Gaskets/829/9415A/10002/-1?gclid=Cj0KCQjwwY-LBhD6ARIsACvT72Pxgxwm6ykKksU7Dg9v-PdBovpt4mL0ZG1F41_5WBko8zxjQfnRz10aAscnEALw_wcB

The header gasket is for a round port.  I don't think a tear drop gasket will work?

I was thinking of spraying the gasket with Permatex Copper Spray-A-Gasket.

Is Remflex any good?

Gnarls. 

[toyodaaddict]

Remflex is the way to go if you're having problems. They are like 1/4" thick graphite. If remflex wont seal it nothing will.   

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Remflex is the way to go if you're having problems. They are like 1/4" thick graphite. If remflex wont seal it nothing will.   

Thanks for the input. 

I just received the DT gasket from Summit.

If that doesn't work, then I will get a Remflex. 

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

After a little more research....

I will try this on the new DT header gasket.

https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-series-gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-copper-maximum-temperature-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker/

It's 200d F higher temp rated than the Copper-Spray-A-Gasket.

Gnarls.

[mudmaster]

I'll second Remflex, good product!

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

I'll second Remflex, good product!

Hey Mud....

Yeah... If had not pulled the trigger a little too soon on a DT gasket from Summit, I would have ordered a RemFlex.

Summit has been really good to me over the past years with super quick delivery and excellent customer service!

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

UPDATE:  October 16 2021

I was able to coat the DT gaskets and the two gaskets on block-off plates with Permatex Ultra Copper.

After torqueing the nuts down good, I couldn't detect any exhaust leaks, but I have not taken the truck for a test drive.

I'm anal about keeping the header nuts tight, but the gasket failed from too much hot gas escaping around and through the gasket.

The graphite-coated material burned off the center metal center layer.

If this attempt at sealing the header against the head failures again, I will have the mounting plate machined and buy a RemFlex.

NOTE:  My last DT header that I installed on my 1985 22R, I don't remember having an issue with exhaust leaks.... BUT... I had the mounting plate surface-to-manifold machined flat.

While I was under the truck disconnecting the header coupler to the exhaust pipe, I could see two different colored oil drips on the tranny!! One I suspect is motor oil, and one looks like gear oil!

CRAP!!  I HATE OIL LEAKS!!

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

MORE GASKET LEAK ANALYSIS:

I looked closer at the gasket.

You can see that the head side of the gasket has a distinct imprint, clearly showing the seal against the gasket.

You can see the gasket on the Doug Thorley header flange side has almost no distinct impression on the gasket.

You can also see the holes wear the hot exhaust gases burned through the gasket material is more on the header flange side.

To me this is a clear indication that the header flange is NOT flat and allowing uneven sealing pressure.

I'm very disappointed in Doug Thorley's lack of quality regarding this header.  They've been manufacturing headers for over 60 years!

Why can't they machine the flange surface and design a better header gasket?.... it's all about the money!! 

Gnarls.

[liveoak]

looks to me like you used the wrong gasket. an 81-84 gasket(round) instead of an 85-95 gasket(ovalish) and it was burning it's way through the extra material. that's probably why it didn't seal correctly

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

looks to me like you used the wrong gasket. an 81-84 gasket(round) instead of an 85-95 gasket(ovalish) and it was burning it's way through the extra material. that's probably why it didn't seal correctly

That is an interesting observation.

Actually the 81-84 stock style gasket may seal better.  Due to the height of the DT flange right below #s 2 & 3 spark plug, I would have to trim the metal shield – not a big deal.

The exhaust ports on my head are pear shaped… However, I don’t have air injection, so the block-off plates are required.

The only header gasket Doug Thorley offers for that header is the one with round holes for the round part of the port and the top of the pear is blocked by the gasket and the plate.
As the hot exhaust gas blasts against that area on the gasket, it burns through that portion under the block-off plates.

Would the metal seal ring on the gasket around the port hole make it more burn resistant?

The DT gasket should have been port matched.

I see LCE’s header has a pear-shaped stock style header gasket.  However, LCE’s header mounting flange has been designed to allow the heat shield to fit at spark plugs 2 & 3.

A RemFlex on a machined mounting flange may be the optimum solution.

Gnarls.

[liveoak]

I think toyodaaddict has it right with remflex.
 I would get this http://catalog.remflex.com/TOYOTA_Header_Exhaust_Manifold_Gasket_p/7002.htm
or round if remflex doesn't burn
http://catalog.remflex.com/TOYOTA_Header_Exhaust_Manifold_Gasket_p/7001.htm

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

UPDATE:  NOVEMBER 16, 2021

My next "fix" is dropping the oil pan to fix the leak.

I used the Toyota recommended sealing method when I rebuilt the engine.  I used Ultra Black.

That method only lasted about 25,000 miles!

This time I am going to use a cork gasket and Permatex... I have not decided which Permatex option I am going to use on the gasket.

Who has dropped the oil pan and replaced it on an IFS 22RE?  I don't remember ever dropping the oil pan on an IFS pickup?

I have viewed a couple Youtube videos, but they were not as detailed as I would like to see.

What hot tips do I need to know? 


Gnarls.

[OVRAROK]

There are 2 different oil pans.. 1 uses a cork gasket, the other uses fipg. You can tell by the indentation on the pan.

[emsvitil]

I use the cork gasket and Ultra-Black, event though it didn't have one originally.

My trick is lay some Plastic wrap on the floor.     

Attach the gasket to the pan with Ultra-Black, make sure you're lined up good.

Put the pan gasket side down on the plastic wrap.

Add a bunch of weight to the pan (make sure the gasket doesn't slide).

Let dry overnight.


Now the gasket won't squish out when attaching the pan to the engine (with more Ultra-Black between the gasket and engine)


The trickest part is getting the pan on past the oil pickup..............

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

I use the cork gasket and Ultra-Black, event though it didn't have one originally.

My trick is lay some Plastic wrap on the floor.     

Attach the gasket to the pan with Ultra-Black, make sure you're lined up good.

Put the pan gasket side down on the plastic wrap.

Add a bunch of weight to the pan (make sure the gasket doesn't slide).

Let dry overnight.


Now the gasket won't squish out when attaching the pan to the engine (with more Ultra-Black between the gasket and engine)


The trickest part is getting the pan on past the oil pickup..............

Hi e....

THAT is exactly my plan!!

I am going to call Permatex and talk to a tech about their products.  My Dad was an automechanic and remember his favorite sealant for just about everything on a engine was Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket.  It was a dark brown-reddish color and it had a strong odor.  Very sticky stuff.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

There are 2 different oil pans.. 1 uses a cork gasket, the other uses fipg. You can tell by the indentation on the pan.

Hi O...

Mine has the grooves to use FIPG.   I don't like that method, and I will go with a cork gasket this time.

When I rebuilt the engine, I was hesitant to use just the Ultra Black and no gasket, should have gone with my gut instinct and previous experiences.  I don't care what the Toyota manual says.

Gnarls.

[liveoak]

toyota manual says to use toyota fipg, not ultra black. I've never had a pan leak using it. it is literally made for the application you are describing.
it is not the same thing as ultra black

Genuine Seal Packing (FIPG) 103 Liquid Oil Pan gasket 0029500103.
.

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Packing-Liquid-gasket-0029500103/dp/B000EDDTV0#customerReviews

[OVRAROK]

Hi O...

Mine has the grooves to use FIPG.   I don't like that method, and I will go with a cork gasket this time.

When I rebuilt the engine, I was hesitant to use just the Ultra Black and no gasket, should have gone with my gut instinct and previous experiences.  I don't care what the Toyota manual says.

Gnarls.

Good luck with that..

[Cheesemaker]

Make sure the mating surface of the pan is truly flat.  I had to do this to one of my engines.  It had 3 colors of sealant, and cork.     I made sure everything was clean with solvent, and gooped it up, put the pan on lightly, and torqued it to spec the next day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oijPWkTRBw

[toyodaaddict]

Never seen one of those cork gaskets that didn't leak. I've used ultra grey multiple times with good results but it's a real pain to get apart. Working on a Taco 2rz right now and will be using Toyota FIPG.