Topic: '84-'88 A-Pillar Rust? What's it Worth???

[Plainview]

I'm looking at an '84 extended cab truck that I might be able to buy for a pretty decent price.  The owner has been very forthcoming about all issues and has sent me lots and lots of pictures.  The most concerning thing he's pointed out is this rust in the A-pillar.  He's not terribly mechanically inclined and can't tell me whether this rust is coming from inside the A-pillar or just on the surface.  it's a little hard to tell from the picture, but it looks to me like it might be coming from the inside which is kind of scary.  The truck has a factory sunroof and I don't know if they have drains that might drain down the inside of the A-pillar???  My truck has no rust at all in this area.  Also, it looks like the factory seam adjacent to the rust has separated...?  Have any of you 2nd gen owners seen anything like this in your trucks and if so, what is your take on this?  The truck is really clean for the most part so this rust is surprising.  He says rust is just beginning to show in the same spot on the passenger side.  He's sprayed this area with some red Rustoleum to try to stop it.

Sorry about the large size but I want to get the most detail possible in the pic:

20160605_102727 by Will Baker, on Flickr

[Plainview [OP]]

Maybe I should be more concise...

Have any of you seen rust in this place on your trucks?  If so, was it coming from the inside of the A-pillar?

Does anyone know if the factory sunroofs have drains that channel water down the inside of the A-pillar?

Any other thoughts/input appreciated.

I just rented a U-haul truck & trailer to get this truck home as it has clutch & brake issues but if this A-pillar rust is going to be a big deal I probably won't buy it.  I'm scheduled to pick this truck up on Monday the 13th and it's about 100 miles from my house so I want to try my best to figure out what's going on before then to avoid wasting a day and the rental fees for a truck I'm not going to buy...

[H8PVMNT]

My Celica with a sun roof had drains like that from the sun roof.  I would expect this to be similar.

If it's a deal you could always cut off the pillar and weld on another one from a wreck.  Looks like there is still enough to be structural.  My '80 has a little rust in the A pillar from the leaky windshield.

[Plainview [OP]]

It would be a decent deal for a truck that didn't need structural repairs like that.  I can't do that kind of work myself.  I can do anything mechanical but I don't have a welder or any skills with one and don't have a good place to do body work anyway (my garage is dark, dusty, and cramped) plus I hate body work.  This truck is basically a twin to mine but an extended cab with a much nicer interior (though the typical dash crack), low mileage one-owner with some nice accessories (mainly brush guard with winch and nerf bars).  I like the idea of the sunroof too, but it sounds like it's going to cause rust issues...

The owner isn't hot to sell it.  I stumbled across some pics of it on another forum (which didn't show this rust) and caught the owner saying he was thinking he should sell it since he hardly drives it (he's only put about 15K on it in the last ten years) so I messaged him with an offer that I thought was fair in today's market for such a well-optioned truck with the mileage and in the condition his appeared to be in, but this rust may just be a deal breaker.  He also didn't mention the clutch and brake issues before I made my offer.  He doesn't want to come down in price and I'd imagine cutting in new A-pillars would be pretty expensive at a body shop to have it done right.  The cost of doing that would have me into the truck for quite a bit more than it's worth.

Thanks for your input!   Hmmmm..... 

[Slabzilla]

Appears to be windshield gasket and possibly sunroof combined.  I don't have sunroof and had rust there caused by windshield leak.  It's a cut-out and replace kind of repair (internal rust), sorry.  If it's the truck you want at the price your willing to pay the go for it.  Look closely at the rest of the truck first, the floorboards and firewall around the hinges 

[Plainview [OP]]

Appears to be windshield gasket and possibly sunroof combined.  I don't have sunroof and had rust there caused by windshield leak.  It's a cut-out and replace kind of repair (internal rust), sorry.  If it's the truck you want at the price your willing to pay the go for it.  Look closely at the rest of the truck first, the floorboards and firewall around the hinges 

Thanks!

Yes, I really like the truck but the price I was willing to pay was dependent on the cab and frame being rust free.  It has the typical rust in the bed (though much less than a lot of trucks including mine) and that's NBD to me as I have a complete rust-free and straight bed just waiting for a truck to put it on.

Since the owner's not willing to come down in price I don't think I can buy it. He'd need to knock a good chunk off my initial offer to make it worth it to deal with that rust.  There are other extended cab trucks out there that maybe aren't in as good of overall condition but don't have this kind of rust for less $$.

[Plainview [OP]]

Also I want to be perfectly clear about how this deal has been going down.  The owner didn't advertise the truck, I reached out to him with an initial offer based on a few pics he posted and an assumption that the truck was sound mechanically and body-wise.  In those initial pics the truck looks super clean and nice though he mentioned that the pics make the paint look nicer than it is and that it would need a paint job.  Once he agreed to my offer he then went full disclosure and sent me like 50 pictures and descriptions of every issue he can think of.  That's when I found out about the brakes, clutch, this rust, and the interior plastic behind the passenger door is crumbling.  For a truck in great shape with no issues and the low mileage my offer would have been a reasonably good score.  I didn't try to lowball him but I didn't want to pay the inflated prices people often ask for these trucks.  I had no idea whether he'd accept the offer, just figured if he did and the truck was as nice as it looked then we'd both be happy.

Clutch and brakes aren't a huge deal for me.  I can do both in a couple weekends for not a lot of $ so while the deal wouldn't be quite as good at the original offer, it still would be very fair.  BUT, the crumbling interior plastic is a disappointment though again not a deal breaker, and the rust in the A-pillars (it's happening in both sides) is the big issue for me as that's going to be expensive and really time consuming.  The owner is a little sentimental about this truck since he's the original owner and has all the service records for it and he knows it's worth decent money in today's market with so many junky or chopped up trucks out there and so few being mostly original like his.  He's been totally open and honest with me about everything but given what folks are saying about this rust (which confirms what I'd feared when I saw it) I don't think I can pull the trigger.

[camhays556]

my 87 4runner had that same spot of rust and when i pulled the windshield everything was rusted and holes were rusted through the a pillar. It was a lot of welding and bondo work to fix it. You have your work cut out for you. Not an impossible fix just time consuming.

[Plainview [OP]]

Thanks for the additional info.  The owner doesn't want to believe it's coming from the inside and isn't willing to lower the price enough to make it worth my while.

Since I can't do the repair work myself I'd have to find a shop that's competent enough to do this kind of work and I can't imagine how much it would cost.  I'd guess a couple grand just for the A-pillar repairs...?

It's a shame.  The truck is really nice otherwise, only has 148K miles on it and has some cool options and accessories.  I've never seen seats like it has - they appear to have extra large bolsters and adjustable thigh supports...?  I've also not seen another solid axle with a sunroof. It's the same color combo as mine, too ("Wine" paint color - basically a burgundy/maroon color with brown interior.)  The seats, console, and rest of the interior are spotlessly clean and its totally clean under the hood.  I was really stoked when I saw the first pictures and he accepted my initial offer.  He's come down $500 but that's as far as he's willing to go.

Turns out the clutch was done only about 10,000 miles ago but that was almost 18 years ago.  The clutch should not be worn out, they don't wear from just sitting.  He says the clutch engages/disengages at the top of the pedal travel so I'm thinking the slave cylinder might be sticking and not retracting all the way which would be an easy fix.

What's a truck like this worth?  SR5 so has the good gauges/dash with those cool seats that are in great condition (no rips or tears and hardly any signs of wear), very clean interior with perfect door panels but cracked dash and disintegrating panel around the passenger side B/C pillars, sunroof, vintage brush bar with Warn 6000 lb winch which has a cover, Smittybilt nerf bars, diamondplate tool box and otherwise all original/stock with records showing all regular maintenance.  Runs good, doesn't smoke or knock.  Needs paint and other than the A-pillars the only rust is a couple small holes in the bed in the typical spots by the wheelwells.

Here's one of the pictures I saw of it first, and a pic of the interior:

[84Flatbed]

The inside pillar trim comes off pretty easy, you might be able to peak a little from the inside, not much. The windshield frame is a common rust zone, mine had some there.

[Mavericks]

Thats a nice truck, but of course I live in the midwest.  I agree with 84flatbed if you can pull the trim off, there are holes in the pillar you could look in, and get a better idea.  They are kind of tricky to get off, I think you have to slide them up and then pull them off.

[helipilot77]

The sunroof has drain tubes that go from the A and B pillars all the way down to the bottom at the body seam to drain. My 4Runner had the rust in the same spot on the passenger side. Mine looked almost exactly like the photos. I cleaned it up pretty easily with some steel wool then put some cheap paint on it. Within a few months it came back. I need to clean it up again and put some high quality sealer, primer and paint on it. In my case it was coming from the outside, cause I was able to clean it up.

[dt]

My friends truck  has the same damage,and its all the way through

[Dirt Mover]

After I rolled my 4Runner I had to weld in a new top and the donor had similar rust, but it went together fine. Pull the interior panels off and use an awl to see if it's bad or not. You can buy paint that will stop any rust and if you pull panels off and the headliner out you should be able to access everything. Check out some sites talking about FJ40's and they can school you on rust repairs

[Greg_Canada]

I had the same issue in my 89' 4runner in 2005.  I had a body shop fix it (just cut out a rectangular piece and welded a new one in) and it is still mint 11 years later (cant say the same for the rest of the truck).  Bodyshop or welding guy should charge 1-200 for it, more if you want it professionally painted.

[Snowtoy]

the interior plastic behind the passenger door is crumbling..............

If you are referring to the rear panels, they are salvageable if you can't find replacement panels.  The '84 I restored about 4yrs ago the rear panels had large holes in the them and most of the section under the X-cab windows were missing, I think I spend about $10  in fiberglass/bondo bedliner and paint to restore them.

Idea of the amount of area I had to work with fiberglass and bondo,

used fiberglass on the back side to reinforce as well.

[Plainview [OP]]

Wow, good job Snowtoy!

Thanks for the tips folks. As you can see from my project thread, I ended up buying this truck.  I'll tackle the rust this fall.

[Snowtoy]

Thanks, the PO never got me the rear shelf, so I went another route.

[Greg_Canada]

If you are referring to the rear panels, they are salvageable if you can't find replacement panels.  The '84 I restored about 4yrs ago the rear panels had large holes in the them and most of the section under the X-cab windows were missing, I think I spend about $10  in fiberglass/bondo bedliner and paint to restore them.

Idea of the amount of area I had to work with fiberglass and bondo,

used fiberglass on the back side to reinforce as well.

Yours looks fantastic!

www.toyotafiberglass.com makes replacement panels http://toyotafiberglass.com/Truck.htm (2/3 of way down)

[Snowtoy]

Thanks.  Aany plans in the works at Toyota Fiberglass to start making interior pieces, or is there enough of a demand/margin to make it profitable?

[slacker]

Thanks.  Aany plans in the works at Toyota Fiberglass to start making interior pieces, or is there enough of a demand/margin to make it profitable?

I make some of the panels ...   biggest problem is .. we are busy !!  .. had to put all of our NEW mould projects on hold , just to keep up with what I'm doing now .

[arlindsay1992]

Here's a bit of info about the rust in the A-pillar door jamb. I just did a bunch of bodywork and rust repair on my 87 4Runner, here's what I learned. The rust that develops here is not because of a leaky sunroof drain. I thought the same thing before diving into my truck but I did a bit of surgery in the junkyard to a Pickup with the same rust and no sunroof. The rain gutter is spot welded to the inside of the A-pillar and then seam-sealed. The seam sealer cracks and lets water in between the rain gutter and the a-pillar. Here's a picture dump from me examining a junkyard truck (white) and working on my 4Runner (gray).

Here's the rain gutter peeled back a bit on the junkyard truck. As you can see, there is rust all along the entire length of the inside of the rain gutter. None of this was visible before peeling the rain gutter off.



Down at the bottom was the only rust that was visible before disassembly.



Up at the top you can see where the roof skin is brazed to the A-pillar.



Here's my truck after removing the rain gutter. You can see how bad the metal was pitted. One spot was eaten all the way through.



Here is the pillar with the spot welds ground down and the metal wire brushed.



And my solution. Pits all filled in and sanded smoothed.



Primed.



And painted.



Obviously this is a bit involved if you're not planning to repaint the truck, I just wanted to show what you can expect. My solution was to simply remove the front part of the rain gutter and fix the damage that had occurred so far. If you just want to buy some time, I'd say remove the cracked seam sealer and visible rust as much as possible, and re-apply new seam sealer. This will probably buy you years of time before it creeps back. It's not permanent but if you just want to keep your truck looking decent and dramatically slow the rust, this is a perfect solution. For color matched paint, you can try to find something close at your auto parts store, or for about $25 a can + shipping AutomotiveTouchup.com can send you rattle cans of color matched paint. I used them for my door jambs and I'm very pleased with the results. It sprays nice and even, matches good, and seems to be durable so far.

[helipilot77]

Thanks for doing the detective work and taking photos for the rest of us. Nice write up! 

[onecool1929]

Great write up.
I'm noticing that your windshield doesn't have the metal trim around it. Where did you get the windshield seal that doesn't use the trim?

[arlindsay1992]

Told the windshield guy it used to have chrome trim and I don't want to reinstall it. Said just use universal rubber trim. It doesn't fit perfect but it looks good enough.

[Winky29]

Resurrecting an old thread but wanted to ask Arlindsay about how he filled in the gap between the A-Pilar, rain gutter and where the roof is brazed to the A-Pillar. I used some seam sealer to fill in the hole but was wondering if I should go back and use body filler or pay someone to weld it shut.

Thanks and happy trails,
Winky

[arlindsay1992]

I used seam sealer for the little crevice that was left in that area. I live in southern VA and generally don't drive this truck in the salty snow, but I did have to spend one winter in upstate NY. Still seems okay 4 years later.