Topic: oil additives

[traveler727]

Happy new year everyone. what does evryone think about stuff like slick 50 and lucas. I just put a new 22re in my 86 4runner and would like the help it last as long as possible. my last one lasted 210,000 this one is use has about 80,000 when I got it over the summer.
thanks
joe

[reklund5]

Your money is best spent on frequent oil changes with a Toyota factory oil filter ( the good jap filter, I believe the last digits of the part number are D1).  Do it every 3months or 3000 miles.  Most additives are just snake oil in my opinion- nothing takes the place of good old fashinoned regular maintenance.

 
Ryan

[KYOTA]

Check this out, BigMIke turned us onto this guys findings awhile back.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

[Bob Garrett]

I would completely agree with Ryan's comment. My 83 has 250k on the original 22R. Uses about a quart of oil every 2k mi. Compression is between 160-170 on all cylinders. PO changed oil every 3k. didn't always use toy filters, tho    He knows better now tho 

Bob

[BigMike]

Avoid Lucas like there's no tomorrow!!

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

[jr9162]

Take it from a retired US Navy jet engine mechanic - IMA level complete engine repair, Class C test cell operator, and spectormetic oil analysis operator/evaluator. Also graduated from San Diego Miramar College w/Associate in Science in Aviation Maintenance Tech (A&P).

Break the engine in properly and do frequent oil changes. More frequent if the engine is stressed out a major part of the time. IE , cold weather operation like in AK, extremely hot weather ops like in the Mohave, and/or turbocharging. Go to a good synthetic like Mobil 1 or Amsoil from the get go.

Amsoil is actually slicker than Mobil 1 (can't be used to break in the engine) but is more expensive and not as readily available. Another reason I buy Craftsman tools, there's a Sears store almost everywhere. Not so with the Snap On salesman.... 

Heat is your engine oil's worst enemy....

Oil has 4 functions in an engine:
1) lubrication. That thin unbroken film between two moving parts. The thinner it is, the less internal drag there is. That's why turbine and race car engines use dry sumps. Once the film is broken, then you have heat, and bearing surface failure
2) cooling. Oil transfers a lot of heat away from the engine. Oil coolers are a good thing. More so automatic transmission coolers.
3) sealing. The interior of the lubrication system is sealed from the environment, preserving the bearing surfaces from corrosion.
4) cleaning. Oil has an affinity for dirt and combustion ring blow by products. That's why you run a quality filtration system. Another reason reciprocating aircraft engines don't have a PCV system running crankcase fumes back thru the intake. They're concerned with a clean stochiometric (spelling ?) mixture, maximum power and why re-inject unburned hydrocarbons back into the combustion chamber? Just makes the oil work harder.

Jet engines use synthetic oil. Each bearing has a dry sump. There's a large oil tank, and oil cooler. Actually it's a fuel heater. Cold JP (a high grade of kerosene) is pushed under pressure thru a heat exchanger for the purpose of cooling the oil and heating the fuel to aid in atomization at the fuel nozzles. Diesel trucks use a similar process, on a smaller scale. The reservoir is quite large, some turbine engines I worked on spooled up to over 26,000 rpm. That's no where near how fast a turbocharger spins. The oil on a jet engine is not changed like a reciprocating engine. The filter is frequently changed, samples for SOAP evaluation and trend analysis are frequently (on schedule) taken, and consumed oil is topped off with fresh oil. The only reason a turbine engine's oil is changed is because of contamination, or the tank is drained during overhaul.

Use quality oil (synthetic is the best - it is not prone to breakdown under heat, and the lower viscosity provides the thinnest unbroken film of oil between moving parts), quality filtration, good cooling, and frequent oil changes. If your oil filter allows, fill it completely full with new oil before installing it.

If you really want the engine to last, go dry sump, and rig up an electric pre-oiler pump. What I mean is when the ignition key is switched on, the electic fuel pressure and oil pressure pumps come on line. Only when there is oil pressure and fuel pressure will the circuit allow the starter to engage. Once you have the engine started the electric pump cuts out and the mechanical oil pump handles the load. The engine should be operated at 1200 to 1500 rpm (steady state) until the oil temp is 180F. Only then do you go zooming. Under no circumstances do you allow the oil temp to exceed 245F. Turbocharged engines are operated at a low speed to allow the operating temp to cool before the engine is shut down.

I knew one guy who ran Amsoil in his Datsun 240Z. Used two remote filter elements (the roll of toilet paper type), and changed both filters every 1000 miles. He topped off his oil reservoir with the exact amount that was lost during filtration change. Engine ran over 500,000 miles without a single oil change! He never drained the oil pan. Never loaded the engine until the thermostat was open (180F), and never let the oil get over 245F.

Makes for long lasting happy motors. But the scenario I've described is what one does under optimum conditions...

Ok, I'm off my soapbox now. :-)

JR   

 

[FATB0Y]

  I had a 86 mazda pickup....when I got it it did not run and needed a set of rod bearings,the guy that had it never changed the oil or filter and it had 60k on it. I put a set of rod and main bearings in it and and had some head work done on it...Started running Royal Purple synthetic oil in it but I changed it and the filter every 5K miles like clock work. I sold it this past summer it had over 320K on it and it still ran fantastic and got 33.5 mpg. I liked the truck but after i bought the 94 toy that I have now I stopped driving it so I sold it                      Like a dumb @ss!!!

[traveler727 [OP]]

well thanks for all the input everyone. I will just keep doing the oil changes and keep it tuned up that should keep it happy for many more miles

[BigMike]

If you guys want to go synthetic, my vote is for Scharffers-

Check them out: http://www.schaefferoil.com/

Go to their product line.

Also check out : http://www.schaefferoil.com/sellsheets/supreme7000.htm

It is 4.50/quart, but the min order is 12 quarts... So Im thinking $54 + shipping, around $60...
But with this good of oil, I plan on running my oil 10k while changing the Toyota filter about 3 or 4 times as they are cheap and eaisly accessibly through my work.

Should get 3 months outta $60 for top of the line syn oil, I'm there.

[Huhwhye]

I've been running Amsoil in my DD Ford Ranger, sold at my local NAPA.  I just had an oil analysis done and my oil is holding up pretty well.  Wear numbers are non existant.  Goes to show you a good synthetic (I think most brands are good) really protects the engine and no additives are needed.  But the analysis showed that my oil wont last as long as I initially expected.  Needs to be changed at about 10,000.  I was expected a lot higher, Amsoil claims up to 25k, my driving style probably has a lot to do with it.  But the numbers show the oil performed well.

I like what I hear about Shaeffers, I plan on running it and Redline in the future and doing similar tests.  Just to see.  I drive a lot.

P.S. my Turbo Yota doesn't seem to like the Amsoil.  I'm gettin a lot of oil consumption with it.  I didn't get that with Mobil 1.  I can't explain it.  Sythetics burn at higher temps.  I don't know why it comsumed so much.  The motor is fresh with about 12k on it.  Because of the Turbo I go 3k miles between changes, the oil gets pretty dirty, and I drive it hard.

[jr9162]

Snip

P.S. my Turbo Yota doesn't seem to like the Amsoil.  I'm gettin a lot of oil consumption with it.  I didn't get that with Mobil 1.  I can't explain it.  Sythetics burn at higher temps.  I don't know why it comsumed so much.  The motor is fresh with about 12k on it.  Because of the Turbo I go 3k miles between changes, the oil gets pretty dirty, and I drive it hard.

I believe Amsoil is slicker than Mobil One is. When one starts using synthetics in an engine with mileage on it, and all those miles were on conventional oil, s/he may experience higher consumption because of the wear in the engine. It just doesn't have as tight tolerances as it did when new. If the owner had used synethetics from the beginning, there'd be a lot less wear and probably no excessive consumption.

Yes synthetics tolerate higher temperatures before breaking down and/or burning. A turbo is hard on the engine oil. I think you're getting more than normal blowby on your piston rings under boost. You stated you drive the vehicle hard, and that means the engine is making boost under a load. That may explain the dirty oil. I see the same thing on my F250's Powerstroke. Turbo diesels coke the oil pretty bad. I change mine every 3000 miles and I know the engine would be happer if I did it every 2500. It's possible your oil consumption is due to less than optimum ring gap. Are they moly, cast, or chrome rings? I'm presuming an engine rebuild 12k miles ago.... Have you ran synthetics in it since it was broken in?

You may want to do a leak down compression test on the engine. Check and make sure the turbo charger itself isn't consuming some of the oil. I've seen a drop in oil consumption when switching to Mobil One if all other potential causes pan out negative. You can break in a new engine using Mobil One, it's hard, if not impossible, to do so with Amsoil.

JR

   

[SWAMPER]

Avoid Lucas like there's no tomorrow!!

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

Damn now you tell me

[kneedownnate]

I personally like Redline, the only thing I use in my track bike.  When you're spinnin at 15,000rpm you hafta have a lotta faith in your oil, and Redline's never let me down.  My truck engine has around 350,000 miles and doesn't seem to burn oil, no smoke, and I've either run valvoline or, well I can't remember what I get from work, in it for the last few years,    Nate

[traveler727 [OP]]

thanks again for all the info everyone. but while I was worring about what oil and additives to use the motor has developed a knock more like a loud tap only when its cold and at idle so I guess I may have to pull the motor again

[FATB0Y]

Mine does that too and I was told  the oil pump is getting weak. What do you guys think

[Red_Chili]

Just repeating what I've read elsewhere (from knowledgeable sources though):
Its not that the oil pump is getting weak, its that the main bearing clearances are getting a little loose, reducing oil pressure.
You could use a 'turbo' oil pump to make up some difference.  Ted at Enginebuilder sells a turbo-spec oil pump (not the same p/n, but equivalent, since the true turbo pump is both $$$ and getting hard to get) FWIW.

Or thicker oil, and just keep drivin'... 

Sure its not the infamous timing chain slap?

[traveler727 [OP]]

I know mine is not chain slap just put a new timming chain set in with metal guides.

[FATB0Y]

Mine also has a new chain and guides new gears the whole nine yards. And it does it when it's cold and when the oil pressure builds up it goes away. I still think it the oil pump.I'm gonna put one on it and drive it like I stole it...When It quits I'll rebuild it

[Red_Chili]

Another thought, some of the hydraulic tensioners are a little 'slow' to build pressure.  One fella did some drilling on his  , but others just made sure they took them apart and removed any flashing, etc.  I suppose drilling the 'in' hole, and leaving the 'out' hole alone, would not be a nono.