Topic: Loose Change 2nd Edition Review

[Shamb]

Okay so i'm posting this exact same thing on PBB only because I know some of you dont get on PBB and I want a WIDE view of opinions.

First off if you havn't seen the "movie" Loose Change I highly recommend watching it! Its basically a documentary of the events that happened during 9-11-01, the Pentagon plain crash and missing Flight 93 that mysterously crashed. 

For those of you who have seen it, I want your thoughts after watching. What did you think?

Do you think the facts provided are correct?

If for some reason you disagree with Loose Change "2nd Edition"  please explain yourself.

I'm not going to give my comments just yet, i'd like to see what everyone else has to say about the matter first.

I will say that the movie definently opened my eyes and got me thinking alot....

[BigMike]

If it becomes availbe through Netflix then I will rent it. I don't think they carry it right now

[BLACKDOG]

This was posted almost a year ago, has a lot of the same similarities. 

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=19226.msg204963;topicseen#msg204963

I also found a place to watch the video online
http://www.loosechange911.com/

I actually don't have time to watch the video right now, but I did read through the timelines, and there are already several things that don't really match up. 

The structural comments also still stand in my post on the other thread, and has anyone heard what a superheated, superstressed peice of steel snapping sounds like?  Sounds kinda like a bomb!


 I am sick and tired of people trying to find ways to drag the government into this, and say it was the government that did this.  Do I know 100% that they didn't?  no.  Do I believe that they didn't? yes.

I have done a good amount of research on this topic, and I still have yet to be even remotely convince of this kind of truth. I wholly encourage people to do their research, and to prove it true, because I think when it comes down to it, we know what happened, and all these conspiracy theories will be proved false

[Shamb [OP]]

As I posted in PBB.

So about the "facts" they provided about the hit on the pentagon and the diameter of the hole compared to a 757 not matching up, or the fact the entire plane disentegrated except for small pieces... whats the explaination for this? Or the plane tearing down multiple light poles yet it doesnt go down?

Watching the tapes and people testimony of the 2nd blast that took place on the towers, how is that explained? or the periodical table of elements showing that its nearly impossible for the steel to actually metal at those temps? the close up secondary blasts that the video's capture....

I'm not saying this video is correct NOR am I saying its false.. i'm just trying to get a better understanding and see what other people thought about the film.

There's just so many "facts" presented in this film that make it somewhat believable...

I use the term "facts" here openly because I personally have not done enough research to justify them as a 100% fact



In addition I'm going to start doing as much research as possible to get some background on all of this.

[BigMike]

What do you guys think would have happened if we just focused on our own problems within our country, like investing in better border control, streamlined VISA process, crackdown in illeagles, improve our schools and public education, instead of spending the money to go outside of our country to solve problems.

I understand that any legal citizen at anytime can become a terrorist, but what if we had just focused on protecting our citizens instead of going out to start war?

Does anyone believe in the quote "The only way to end evil is for the good to do nothing" ? I believe it, but I think it is not practical in this world.

So lets assume that instead of invading the middle east, we just decided to put more military or much better police training at airports, seaports, borders. Then we trained agents to search out and stop terrorist cells already existing within the country. And lets assume a second and perhaps a third attack was made to Americans on American soil, and yet we still did not retaliate outside of the country. I wonder if the terrorists would stop?

I mean I think one reason why someone is against America is because we are so big, or we insist on spreading out and having basses and smaller nations conform to us. Well, instead of doing that, what if we drew everything and everyone back to inside our own borders and just kept it all here. Then with the increase in spending money (money that is not being used for war) and the increase in personell could be used to improve the living conditions and safety of the citizens living inside the city.

Again, I understand that a system without checks & balances is no good, so this is of course all hypothetical, but I have always pondered it. Its not that I am so much against war, its just that retaliation seems to be the first order of business, but what if it wasn't and a much less unorthodox method of "turning the other cheek" was used. Then we wouldn't be considered as an arrogant country like we are today?

[Shamb [OP]]

I agree BigMike, I can only wonder how that would really work out. Sure you can turn the other cheek... but for how long until they feel that they can walk all over US?  USA is a powerhouse and as such most people feel we need to "keep order"  This is probably getting us into more trouble then its actually helping. It would really be interesting to see what would pan out if we just kept to our own and didn't worry so much about all the other bs in the world thats going on. Keep a tight perimeter and hold our own. A person thats prepared for a fight is better then one that goes looking for a fight.... in a sense.

[Lady Di]

check this out

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

[BigMike]

That's a good question about how long could we turn the other cheek until they just walked all over us. But, I think that if we were not so arrogant, then we would offend less, and if less were offended, or better yet, if none were offended, then they would be our friends through love instead of force. See what I'm getting at?

But thats the question. How many people have to die, how many attacks will go unchecked, for those attacking to turn from hating us to feeling compassion to us. Then there would be harmony. But if you think about the thousands that would die from numerous terrorist attacks within US, that is much less than those who will die in the future from WWIII, WWIV, WWV, World War Six, etc....

[Shamb [OP]]

Unfortunantly its the world we live in and it seems more so in this day and age its surrounded by "i'm better then you because..... "

Maybe someday...

[BLACKDOG]

Unfortunantly its the world we live in and it seems more so in this day and age its surrounded by "i'm better then you because..... "

Maybe someday...

Someday, but I sincerely doubt it.  The "survival of the fittest" theory is certainly embraced by the human race.  This is one of the main reasons communism won't work.  Someone always wants to be better.  "He who dies with the most _____" wins.  I wish we could have peace, but it wouldn't happen.

What do you guys think would have happened if we just focused on our own problems within our country, like investing in better border control, streamlined VISA process, crackdown in illeagles, improve our schools and public education, instead of spending the money to go outside of our country to solve problems.

I understand that any legal citizen at anytime can become a terrorist, but what if we had just focused on protecting our citizens instead of going out to start war?

Does anyone believe in the quote "The only way to end evil is for the good to do nothing" ? I believe it, but I think it is not practical in this world.

So lets assume that instead of invading the middle east, we just decided to put more military or much better police training at airports, seaports, borders. Then we trained agents to search out and stop terrorist cells already existing within the country. And lets assume a second and perhaps a third attack was made to Americans on American soil, and yet we still did not retaliate outside of the country. I wonder if the terrorists would stop?

I mean I think one reason why someone is against America is because we are so big, or we insist on spreading out and having basses and smaller nations conform to us. Well, instead of doing that, what if we drew everything and everyone back to inside our own borders and just kept it all here. Then with the increase in spending money (money that is not being used for war) and the increase in personell could be used to improve the living conditions and safety of the citizens living inside the city.

Again, I understand that a system without checks & balances is no good, so this is of course all hypothetical, but I have always pondered it. Its not that I am so much against war, its just that retaliation seems to be the first order of business, but what if it wasn't and a much less unorthodox method of "turning the other cheek" was used. Then we wouldn't be considered as an arrogant country like we are today?

This is impossible.  Say we do this, and withdraw, and become an isolated country.  Everyone'll love us now right, because we're not too big, we're not trying to "control" or "influence" others anymore.  Now here comes another tsunami in the east, or a severe drought somewhere.  In order to maintain our isolation, we cannot go help.  Now people hate us because we didn't spend our money, our resources, our aid to go help them.    One of the reasons our military has bases all over the world is to be able to provide aid to different countries.  When the tsunami struck (2 years ago?) we provided hospital ships, helicopters, food, water, troops, doctors, nurses, etc. to aid the relief effort.  We would not have been able to respond near as quickly as we did had we had all our resources here in the US.

[Shamb [OP]]

Yea its a double edged sword...