Topic: Hard to find Gears after Short Throw Shifter install and Fluid Change

[Hickory Nut]

I recently purchased a W56A short throw Shifter and changed the fluid in the trans. It seems I have to really have to search to find the gears. I used Valvoline 80W90 should I try something different like the MT90 Redline to see if this will make it smoother? I can also hear some slight noise in certain gears 1, 2, and 5. Any ideas would be much appreciated.

[HogCanyonHopper]

did u replace the shifter seat and socket when u installed the shifter?

[Hickory Nut [OP]]

It was the Short Throw Shifter Kit from Marlin's website for the W56A. Yes everything was changed.

[blackdiamond]

Redline will make it shift smoother, but it sounds like you have something going on that's not related to the fluid being used.  Did it shift ok prior to the shifter swap?

If you have the parts can you swap it back and make sure that it's shifting ok with the old parts.  Just an idea, I don't know how involved the swap is for you.

[Hickory Nut [OP]]

It was a little easier than it is now but not much. The swap wasn't very tough. I can disassemble everything and make sure all the parts are in correctly. I will Probably change the fluid to make sure nothing bad is going on in there while i'm at it. I appreciate the replies.

[blackdiamond]

It was a little easier than it is now but not much. The swap wasn't very tough. I can disassemble everything and make sure all the parts are in correctly. I will Probably change the fluid to make sure nothing bad is going on in there while i'm at it. I appreciate the replies.

A short throw shifter is essentially changing the pivot point on the shifter which gives you less leverage. I have not run one, but I would fully expect it to shift a little harder but you shouldn't have to "hunt" for gears. It could expose a previously existing issue maybe...

[Mudder]

It can be harder to find gears with the short throw. I installed one and it took me a couple miles to get used to the shorter range.

[Hickory Nut [OP]]

I will change the fluid with MT90,  make sure there is not any excessive metal shavings in the oil, and update once completed.

[SqWADoosh]

I will change the fluid with MT90,  make sure there is not any excessive metal shavings in the oil, and update once completed.

MT90 is very expensive and you just put in brand new fluid. The fluid is not the problem this time of year. MT90 only makes it smoother in cold weather. Don't get me wrong I run MT90 in both my trans and cases and swear by it. However I'd hate to see you blow money thinking that is going to be your problem. The only way the fluid is your problem is if you didn't put the proper amount in. I can almost guarantee that the difference you are feeling is from the new HD shifter socket, seats, and short shifter. Everyone who drives my truck who has never run a HD shifter socket and seat says the same thing. You just have to get used to it and once you do you'll realize you are making much better shifts.

[blackdiamond]

MT90 is very expensive and you just put in brand new fluid. The fluid is not the problem this time of year. MT90 only makes it smoother in cold weather. Don't get me wrong I run MT90 in both my trans and cases and swear by it. However I'd hate to see you blow money thinking that is going to be your problem. The only way the fluid is your problem is if you didn't put the proper amount in. I can almost guarantee that the difference you are feeling is from the new HD shifter socket, seats, and short shifter. Everyone who drives my truck who has never run a HD shifter socket and seat says the same thing. You just have to get used to it and once you do you'll realize you are making much better shifts.

I would agree that switching to MT90 isn't money well spent if the OP is already running new fluids.  It is my understanding that the primary difference between MT90 and other gear oils is that it has just the right friction for the syncros. I  officer the improvement immediately, but it really only improved downshifting into 2nd and 1st where the syncros make the difference. I can't say that I noticed any significant difference otherwise. The downshifting has been a year around improvement though it is likely that it makes a bigger improvement in colder weather were synthetics shine. I ran both conventional and Valvoline 75w-90 synthetic prior to the MT90 switch.

[SqWADoosh]

I would agree that switching to MT90 isn't money well spent if the OP is already running new fluids.  It is my understanding that the primary difference between MT90 and other gear oils is that it has just the right friction for the syncros. I  officer the improvement immediately, but it really only improved downshifting into 2nd and 1st where the syncros make the difference. I can't say that I noticed any significant difference otherwise. The downshifting has been a year around improvement though it is likely that it makes a bigger improvement in colder weather were synthetics shine. I ran both conventional and Valvoline 75w-90 synthetic prior to the MT90 switch.

Couldn't comment on the difference it makes in downshifting into 2nd and 1st as I don't do much downshifting into those gears. I go into neutral. Brakes are much cheaper and easier to replace than the clutch.

[blackdiamond]

Couldn't comment on the difference it makes in downshifting into 2nd and 1st as I don't do much downshifting into those gears. I go into neutral. Brakes are much cheaper and easier to replace than the clutch.

I prefer to downshift at times in combination with the brakes. Downshifting into first has been very useful when traffic slows to a crawl but not a complete stop. 1st gear is just as smooth as downshifting into 3rd.

[Mudder]

I prefer clutchless shifting

[blackdiamond]

I prefer clutchless shifting

With my 1200lb Marlin clutch it simply won't release without the clutch. I could get some smooth clutchless shifts in my 85 with the stock clutch. I stink at it though. I had a guy do it in my Mazdaspeed3 and it was seamless.

[emsvitil]

I always rev match on downshifts................

[Hickory Nut [OP]]

Thanks for the replies guys. I may just need some more seat time since I am used to the sloppy shifter. I will save my money on the MT90 for the time being.

[Mudder]

With my 1200lb Marlin clutch it simply won't release without the clutch. I could get some smooth clutchless shifts in my 85 with the stock clutch. I stink at it though. I had a guy do it in my Mazdaspeed3 and it was seamless.

That's weird, I've got the 1200 pound  clutch and can do it just fine. But I drive 10 speeds all day long and am always clutchless shifting. As for the OP, I'd do what you're thinki ng/what everyone is saying and drive it more. The short throw shifter changes the shifting movement 40%.

[skid]

Was the fluid you put in GL5 or GL4?  Do not put GL5 in. It doesn't float the syncros correctly.

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[blackdiamond]

That's weird, I've got the 1200 pound  clutch and can do it just fine. But I drive 10 speeds all day long and am always clutchless shifting. As for the OP, I'd do what you're thinki ng/what everyone is saying and drive it more. The short throw shifter changes the shifting movement 40%.

I don't make any claims at knowing what I am doing when shifting without a clutch. As a general rule I don't do it because learning isn't worth the gear damage that may occur trying!

[emsvitil]

I don't make any claims at knowing what I am doing when shifting without a clutch. As a general rule I don't do it because learning isn't worth the gear damage that may occur trying!

But knowing how to do it is well worth it when you lose you clutch master or slave cylinder...............


 

[Hickory Nut [OP]]

Sorry to beat a dead horse, I am not trying to keep this going but here is what it says on the label: Valvoline High Performance Gear oil 80W-90. Recommended for Hypoid differentials (conventional and Limited slip) where API GL-4 or GL5 is specified and non synchronized manual transmissions where GL-5 is specified.

Sounds like this is not recommended for Transmissions that have Syncros but the Chilton book says 80W-90, gl-4, gl-5, 75w90 is okay. I purchased that because it looked like it covered everything.

What do you guys recommend?

[SqWADoosh]

Sorry to beat a dead horse, I am not trying to keep this going but here is what it says on the label: Valvoline High Performance Gear oil 80W-90. Recommended for Hypoid differentials (conventional and Limited slip) where API GL-4 or GL5 is specified and non synchronized manual transmissions where GL-5 is specified.

Sounds like this is not recommended for Transmissions that have Syncros but the Chilton book says 80W-90, gl-4, gl-5, 75w90 is okay. I purchased that because it looked like it covered everything.

What do you guys recommend?

Yeah the Chilton is not your best bet. Get yourself a Facotry Service Manual for your truck.

[emsvitil]

And to confuse the issue even more.........

Some GL5s are fine in the tranny..............

[blackdiamond]

http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/synpower_gear.pdf

This is for the 75w-90 synthetic gear oil. It has the recommendation for transmissions for syncros. Redline MT90 is the most popular choice.

[Hickory Nut [OP]]

Okay guys. Called several auto part houses in the Jackson area and no one could get MT90 so I ordered 2 gallons of it off amazon ($56/gallon).It showed up on my doorstep yesterday morning. I drained the old fluid and checked to make sure all the parts for the shifter were correct. I noticed the notches in the Shifter Seat were not aligned under the two pins on the base so adjusted that. Put the MT90 in there this morning, all the noise was gone when in gear, and it is much smoother than before. Many thanks for the replies.