Author Topic: Cummins 4BT+W56=BOOM? -- Does anyone know anything about the LC 3B Diesel? (Read 11960 times)

1Bad4Runner · « **on:** Mar 01, 2006, 11:09:28 AM »

I was wondering if a W56 and a Toy t-case can handle the power of a Cummins 4bt? 120hp and 327lb-ft. Also could a Toyota front axle handle the weight? I know they handle a 350, which is maybe 500lb? The 4BT is 600lb dry... I would assume it could handle it.

Assuming I did this, I would have to upgrade the W56 to a W56 HD and upgrade to a 23 spline t-case, is this right?

skid · « **Reply #1 on:** Mar 01, 2006, 11:15:48 AM »

Might hold up till you want more power and twist the cummin up. I would look more towards a nv4500 and adapt that to a toy tranfer case.

1Bad4Runner · « **Reply #2 on:** Mar 01, 2006, 11:31:52 AM »

If I end up going with a NV4500 then I will probobly go with all 1 ton stuff, like a np203/205 doubler. I kind of wanted to keep some Toyota in it though, but if it wont handle the power than I will go with all the 1 ton stuff.

skid · « **Reply #3 on:** Mar 01, 2006, 11:50:41 AM »

I would stick with toy tranfer cases. They are strong enough and a hell of a lot lighter the a 203/205.

1Bad4Runner · « **Reply #4 on:** Mar 01, 2006, 03:23:15 PM »

thats really why I wanted to go with the W56 and toy t-case because they are all very light. I guess all that I can do is try it and see what happens.

Willy Mammoth · « **Reply #5 on:** Mar 01, 2006, 03:37:16 PM »

If you went with all 1 ton gear boxes you would need to go all 1 ton axles too to support the weight. Also would need some hefty springs too, then all your weight is in the front.

I would look for a Toyota diesel maybe a half cut for $3000 to $4000 with all the parts you need to get it done.

I think you can find a 3.0L , that should have plenty of power without all that weight.

Another thing to consider is the 4BT is only going to turn 2400-2600 RPM, the Toy will most likely turn up to 4000 or so. Much better for off road where you need to get the tires turning.

You could always use a higher gear, but that would be hard on parts.

1Bad4Runner · « **Reply #6 on:** Mar 01, 2006, 05:08:54 PM »

I was also looking at a 3.4l LC diesel, it has a 4 speed and is quite old, maybe a 84. Buddy wants $800 for it, but I'm not sure if it is worth it since I have to get a turbo, intercooler, and other things for it.
Do you think I could hook up a Mini tranny to a LC diesel? If so, that might be the way to go.

Willy Mammoth · « **Reply #7 on:** Mar 01, 2006, 06:26:39 PM »

I'm sure it would work if you could get them to fit.

I know nothing about the engine you are talking about, but I am sure it would be a better choice.

The Cummins BT's are big heavy low rpm high torque engines better suited for slow heavy hauling and not so much for off road preformance.

If you arn't looking to go fast and slow and steady is more your speed you will like the diesel.

I am running a 2.2L Nissan SD22 (65 hp at 4000 rpm 85 fp torque)

1Bad4Runner · « **Reply #8 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 03:27:31 AM »

Well, my dad has a 6BT in hios Dodge and I love it, it is the best motor I have ever run personally. It only has 180hp, but it has 400lb-ft and I can blast by cars with it no problem. It definitly doesn't have any hig rpms. The 3B LC diesel has 90hp and 159lb-ft, when turbo it has 120hp and 210 lb-ft, which is reasonable... I also don't know the weight of this motor.

If I did use the Cummins I would probobly have to go back to 4.10's and eventually put 60's under it.

burnyota · « **Reply #9 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 06:26:03 PM »

i have thought about the diesel swap in my scout (sorry not a yota) and looked a the 4bt over that darn sd33t...didnt the 4's come in lilke frito lay trucks and other vans? shoule be cheep , like 300-500$ if i reember..but decided that the power to weight ratio and other factors just wasn't worth it. looks like a lot of weight in the font of a yota and the conversion would be a pain, then eventually 60's like you stated and the rest of the upgrades on the t-case adn tranny

1Bad4Runner · « **Reply #10 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 07:59:14 PM »

I guess it is all in what you like, I don't think I would mind the extra weight and I would still get better mileage than my stock 3.0. I think the Toy tranny, t-case, and axles would hold up for awhile if you have a light foot. I don't think the power to weight ratio applies with a diesel, my dad has a 6bt Cummins in his Dodge and the motor alone weights in at 1100lb, I can't remember the exact truck weight, but it is damn heavy and I can hit 80MPH no problem and its take off is incredible for a truck of its size.
The 4bt only has 70hp less and 70lb-ft less than the 6bt, so I think it would make a Toyota move alone like snot.

Willy Mammoth · « **Reply #11 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 04:21:28 AM »

I am sure it would move good, but the problem you will find other than the weight is the shear torque of the engine will have the tendency to twist off and break parts without straining the engine.

A gas engine with the same torque has to rev up to build the torque and is not as hard on parts because of this. A big diesel only has to have the fuel added at low rpm to build full torque and with too much resistance will break parts.

So too much power is not a good thing, but finding the balance is key.

Can't wait to see what the Paxton supercharger does to wake up my 2.2.

1Bad4Runner · « **Reply #12 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 06:58:08 AM »

Yes, I totally agree with you. The main reason I want the Cummins is because it is a very reliable engine. If I did end up running it I would have to go really easy on it and upgrade all the U-joints.
I was looking at the 3.4l LC engine and I've hear that the head get hairline cracks in it and sometimes it will fully crack... I'm not positive if this is true.

RockSlayer · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 10:53:39 AM »

If you go with the 4BT, make sure you get one that was used in an automotive application. Cummins put those motors in everything you could imagine, tractors, water pumps, genorators, street sweepers, etc, and only the automotive ones have a counter balance assembly that reduces vibration. I have seen one of these engines run from a street sweeper, and it would blow you away how much those things can shake without that counterbalance

freds40 · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 06:34:10 PM »

First off, I know the specs are listed that the motor weighs in @ about 600 lbs but in reality, the motors weigh in more like 800 lbs. Think about it, a 6 BT is 1100, and the same motor minus 2 cylinders is 500 lbs. less?

These are heavy pigs. They are an awesome motor, don't get me wrong, but if you are going to put in a 4bt, I'd say do it right....NV4500/5600, 203, 205, 60, 35 spline 60/70/14 bolt. This is a heavy motor and I really don't see the mini stuff holding up to it. Besides, the 4 bts can be bombed to easily get 350 horses, why drop the coin to be stuck with no option of turning up the motor? Otherwise, I'd say look for some more info on the Cruiser Diesel. IIRC, they are a relatively decent unit.

1Bad4Runner · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 10:13:28 PM »

Thanks for the info Rockslayer, I have been looking for Frito Lay trucks around here... non to be found yet.

I see what you are getting at Freds40, as I was saying... I would leave the mini stuff in for now and swap it out for a 60/70 combo later on when I could afford it. All these things aren't cheap and I am in school right now so I will probobly end up doing it after I move to Alberta and get some work.
I just love the pure torque and it would be cool in a Toyota. I seen a 6BT in a S10 before

RockSlayer · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 08:17:11 AM »

There is a guy in Washington who has a Cruiser with a 5.9, 727 tranny, NP205, 60 front and 70 rear. He has it up on 42" tsl's. It's only the 180 HP 5.9, but the off idle torque is incredible. Almost too much.

He also put a 305 HP 5.9, NV5600, NP205, and 60/70 axles, and put it in a 84' Toyota. He had to re-construct the front end support, and the radiator and intercooler share the bed with the two 5" stacks. I haven't ridden in that one, but I am sure it is really fun.

1Bad4Runner · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 08:30:22 AM »

Yea, I think it sounds like a cool idea. I wouldn't run a 5.9 because they are much to long, but I think that the 3.9 would fit nice and snug under the hood and its pushing good hp and awsome torque. The problem is that I can't find a 4bt for the life of me around here.

RockSlayer · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 08:41:15 AM »

I used to work for a truck wrecking yard. Valley Truck Parts and Equipment. They run across the 4BT's every once in a while. Call them at (800) 598-5715 and ask for Dennis. Dennis is the engine expert. Don't talk to anybody else. He's like the Marlin of Diesel engines. Tell him that Dave Case told you to call. If he doesn't have one, and he can't locate one, he will have some places that you could try.

1Bad4Runner · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 10:45:14 AM »

I'd love to give him a call, but does he deal with anything in Canada. It seems we don't have as plentiful of junkyards as you guys do. I don't know if they have the 4bt's in the Frito Lay truck around here or not.

RockSlayer · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 11:26:50 AM »

i know they export. When i worked there i was the used parts manager. i sent stuff all over the world. I sent a whole Freightliner cab over cab to New Zealand, and they export a ton of engines and transmissions to Asia. I would think that Canada would be a no brainer for them.
4BT's came in a lot of GM "Step Vans". There has to be some up there. Here in Fresno, CA I have seen the school district use them for work trucks, the News Paper uses them, Frito Lay as well. I think even the uniform companys use them too. You could always try calling Cummins engine company. There has to be some of those guys up there. They might be able to help you too.

1Bad4Runner · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 02:28:40 PM »

Thats a good idea... I think I will call Cummins this week and see if they know where I can find one.

Thanks RockSlayer.

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