Author Topic: Is this normal? Plus knuckle rebuild questions.  (Read 7889 times)

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79coyotefrg

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look on the ground,  you should have it there,  or its  inside the birf
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KDXSR5 [OP]

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I found it, it was a round clip thing. I broke it, so I need a new one. :smack: Half was still on the end of the shaft, and the rest was lost in the birf.

79coyotefrg

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:yikes:   yea  thats why  i said  dont take it off  unless you had dirt inside the birf  :yesnod:
AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

KDXSR5 [OP]

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I had brass chunks in it, so i figured I should probably take it apart and get them out.

79coyotefrg

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toyota  should have them if not  call Marlin monday
AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

KDXSR5 [OP]

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OK! Update Time! I went to Toyota Monday and ordered new rings, I got them today. I also went down to a bike store today and got a bearing for my hub. Hub is painted, knuckle is painted, and the metal part that the studs & disc are attached to (forgot what it is called) is painted. This is all driver's side, FYI. I haven't even looked at the passenger's side. This is taking forever! OK, I am about to start reassembling. Are there any pointers for checking the knuckle pull? How is it supposed to be set up to test that? What parts need to be assembled? Start with one thin shim on top, and a thick on the bottom, correct? I wish I was on my computer with pictures, but it doesn't have internet right now. It would be so much easier w/pics! Crap, I need to replace the seal w/ the Marlin super seal still too! I need all the help I can get1 I don't want to have to do this all again! Thanks everyone that has helped so far, and those that will help in the future! I will probably take pics of the passenger side of the teardown & rebuild, when I get around to it. :woohoo:

KDXSR5 [OP]

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READ! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I NEED HELP SO I CAN GET THIS STUPID THING GOING THIS WEEKEND!



thanks.

79coyotefrg

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you got the kit right??   from Marlin ??

AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

KDXSR5 [OP]

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I bought the knuckle rebuild kit w/ new wheel bearings, a 54mm socket, and a knucle pull scale. Is this the stuff you are asking about? If so, then yes, I do have the kit.
« Last Edit: Oct 03, 2007, 08:19:47 PM by KDXSR5 »

79coyotefrg

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ok,  after you install the new bearings  in the knuckles,  start with 1 thick and 1 thin  on both top and bottom , use the shims from the kit,  save your old ones,
last knuckle i rebuilt  when  i checked  the  preload  it was  near perfect  with 1thin and 1 thick  on both top and bottom

if  yours  is too loose,  pull the thin shim from the top,  check again if still loose  (and i doubt it will be) but  if so  pull the thin shim from the bottom cap

you DO NOT  want  a thick and thin on the bottom and nothing on top,  very BAD

i have in rare cases  used 3 thins  on top and a thick on the bottom  but that was using old bearings  on the trail
AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

84pickup

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i just used my shims that were on there before and didn't even bother with the preload. pretty stupid i'm sure but after about 8K miles nothing seem to be going wrong. my alignment was near perfect (until i went in a huge ditch at 30MPH) and even now it's pretty good after the lady at the counter said "they did the best they could but with those wierd ball joints it was kinda hard to work on" i just kind of laughed and said i would come pick it up. oh and i still have the shims from the marlin kit i bought and some of the gaskets and seals which i may need to replace after having gone in the ditch.
lets not and say we did.

KDXSR5 [OP]

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So, i put new bearings in, put the knuckle on, and then attach the j-arm & the bottom piece, correct? I then hook the scale to the end of the j-arm, and see how much force is needed to move the knuckle, correct? Do I install the cone washers also? I would really hate to have it wrong and deal with the stupid cone washers again. Also, how do I get the ball on the j-arm out of the steering arm it is attached to (from the pump)?? I took off the end cap, and can't seem to get the stupid ball out of that other arm. Do you know what I am talking about? THANKS!!!

89toy

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In theory when you took the end cap off the rod should have been able to move out easily.  Try and move your steering wheel to where it looks like the ball moves in the rod...maybe it has tention on it.  Do you have it on jack stands?  If you do you can just try and move the wheel to let the ball release the tention on the rod.  Hope that helps.
« Last Edit: Sep 22, 2007, 05:54:09 PM by 89toy »
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KDXSR5 [OP]

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I have it on jackstands. The brake caliper+backing plate is tied up to the top shock mount. The j arm w/ that bar from the box is is also wired up to the top shock mount. I have put the new bearing races in, and the MARLIN super seals in. By the way, these are awesome. I am all ready to start reassembling, but I don't know how to do the knuckle pull test. I understand that I need to reassemble the knuckle & put the bottom pivot on. I also need to reinstall the j-arm. But, do I need to reinstall the cone washers when I do the pull test?? If I don't, then it will make changing out the shims so much faster. I just don't quite understand how to disconnect the j-arm from that other rod. i found a pic on fourwheeler.com, I will show you what I mean. Stuff circled in white is tied up, + the caliper. Red is connected to the steering box. Blue is the cap I took off. Green circles the joint I don't know how to take apart.
« Last Edit: Sep 22, 2007, 09:23:50 PM by KDXSR5 »

OOPS

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This should help you out.

http://www.lukemiller.org/toys/1985_toyota_4wd_front_axle_FSM.pdf

Or this

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/AxleRebuild.shtml

The bottom cap shims are for centering the knuckle which is very important for long axle seal life and if you are running 30-spline Longfields because the shell is a bit bigger. The top shims are for setting the pre-load on the trunion bearings. Yes you need the cone washers in and the steering arms and the bottom caps torqued down to 71-ft. lbs.
David & Theresa Fritzsche, 1990 Ex-Cab with a few mods!!!!!!!!! Roseville, CA Sobriety =Serenity

KDXSR5 [OP]

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My dad got it off about 30 min. ago. I was pulling up, not up and back. I thank him greatly! Now I can do the pull test, shim it correctly, and put everything back together. Any suggestions on how to preload the bearings? I might just do it the way it says on 4crawler. The weekend after next I am taking it on a 600 mi round trip to up around yellowstone. From what my friends have been telling me, It is all ready snowing there, so we need 4 wheel drive, and I am it. My mom is taking her tundra w/ my dad, and I am taking my sister in my truck. I really, really hope this thing can do it! The farthest it has gone is 200 mi round trip to the ranch and back many times during the summer. I haven't worked on this in a while because my friend blew up the rearend in his chevy, (worked over 400 small block w/ half ton running gear, what do ya expect?) and I have been helping him. Anyways, I hope to be :driving: soon! Thanks again for all the help!

KDXSR5 [OP]

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Alright, I just got done shimming and testing the knuckle, 1 thin and 1 thick on top and bottom. I got 16! It is too tight! What do I do!? I know what to do if it is too loose, becuase glen told me, but what if it is to tight? Should I add a shim? A thin one? Top or bottom? HELP PLEASE!

KDXSR5 [OP]

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New update: It turns out I was doing it wrong, but now I got it figured out. I have been consistently pulling 14, so I called it good. But, I then realized that I forgot to put all the seals and stuff on before I installed the knuckle! Wow, I am a dumbass! :hammerhead: :idiot: :doh: :_oops2: I was feeling terrible. Then about a minute after noticing that I am a complete idiot, it started to rain! So I stood up to put the tarp back over everything, and I inadvertently stepped onto my 3/4 of the way full brake cleaner coffee can and ruined my pants, shoe and sock. :maddest: Today was not a good day. I really hope I can get this thing back together right tomorrow! I need my truck to go buy new shoes! :ha_ha: Thanks again for all the help everyone!

DTB

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when you measure the preload make sure you dont have the wipers installed...the reading will be a bit off
RIP KYOTA
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KDXSR5 [OP]

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I know, that is why I didn't put them on. I left them completely off. Then I realized that I needed them on the axle, just not bolted up. So I have to do it all over again. But atleast the preload is good!

DTB

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I know, that is why I didn't put them on. I left them completely off. Then I realized that I needed them on the axle, just not bolted up. So I have to do it all over again. But atleast the preload is good!
lol i did the same thing dont worry about it...now you'll have some practice
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KDXSR5 [OP]

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Oh good, I am not the only forgetful person around. I still need to go buy new shoes though! I bet you didn't pull that trick. :doh:

OOPS

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One more time!!!!

The bottom shims are for centering the knuckle not setting the preload.

The top shims are for setting the preload, to tight add shims, to loose remove shims.

Start pull pounds 6.6--13.2 pounds that is measured with the bottom cap and the steering arm nuts torqued to 71 ft. lbs.

It is best to go to the higher side on the pull pounds if you are running wide tires.

It is all in here:

http://www.lukemiller.org/toys/1985_toyota_4wd_front_axle_FSM.pdf
David & Theresa Fritzsche, 1990 Ex-Cab with a few mods!!!!!!!!! Roseville, CA Sobriety =Serenity

KDXSR5 [OP]

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Ok, I understand now. I was just freaking out at the time. Thank you. By the way, that link doesn't work for me. It says that it cannot read the format. HTTP 406 Not Acceptable. Whatever that means. If it is an FSM, I have one, but my dad had it at the time, and I couldn't find him. Like I said, I was freaking out. But if I do run into the problem again, I will know to adjust the top shims. It pulled at 14 when I checked it. It turns out I was checking it wrong, and i was coming up with 16. I corrected myself and ended up with 14. I would call that perfectly acceptable. But I have to tear it all apart again anyways so I can put the wipers and such on. Oh well, like DTB said, I will get lots of practice.

84pickup

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i did almost the exact same thing when i rebuilt mine. on each side that i did i was in such a hurry to get it back together that i forgot to put some seals or gaskets in or torque them down or something like that so basicly i have rebuilt my knuckles about 3-4 times in one go and know i need to rereplace the oil seals because going into a 4X8 ditch at 35 MPH isn't good for anything and it's starting to leak again. glad you got it all figured out and when i work on my truck i either don't wear shoes or i wear flip flops or boots.
lets not and say we did.

KDXSR5 [OP]

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Update: I got it all back together. There are a few problems that still need fixing.

1. I am still missing a cone washer for the hub. I think I will hit up the junkyard sometime.
2. I broke off one of the bolts that holds the hub dial thing on. It says torque to 23, It wasn't even to 15 and snapped. I torqued the rest to about 20ish. Should I worry about this bolt?
3. I stripped the top caliper bolt. The bolt was messed up to begin with, but it did thread on. I went to torque it, and all of a sudden it went loose. The bolt is ruined, as are the threads in the knuckle. Should I try to tap new threads into the knuckle and get a new caliper bolt? or should I drill it out to a larger size, tap it, and get a bigger new bolt? Or do I need to get a whole new knuckle? (< least favorite option)
4. Hub is really hard to turn. I am pretty sure I put it back together right, and it does engage the 4wd, so I am not to worried about it. I just can't figure out why it doesn't want to turn.
5. I still have a messed up stud on my spacer, I have not had time to go get a new one yet.

Other than that stuff, it all went fine. I got 14 on the scale again for the knuckle preload, and I got the preload on the wheel bearings to +6. I hope my spacers didn't throw this off though, because i never did remove them. Should I do it again with the spacer off? If I need to it probably wont be too bad, because the cone washers should be fairly loose this time.

Sorry for the long post, and thanks again for all the help everyone.

KDXSR5 [OP]

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Another update: My dad called Marlin and asked what to do about the caliper bolt. Whoever he talked to said just buy a new bolt and lockring, and screw it in until it compresses the lock ring. I did just that, and it seems to be holding. So caliper is fixed, for now. My dad also went to NAPA and picked up a new stud for the spacer, I will see if works or not, I am hoping it will. Also, the hub has loosened up a little.

1. I am still missing a cone washer for the hub. I think I will hit up the junkyard sometime.
2. I broke off one of the bolts that holds the hub dial thing on. It says torque to 23, It wasn't even to 15 and snapped. I torqued the rest to about 20ish. Should I worry about this bolt? How should I go about getting it out?
3. I stripped the top caliper bolt. The bolt was messed up to begin with, but it did thread on. I went to torque it, and all of a sudden it went loose. The bolt is ruined, as are the threads in the knuckle. Should I try to tap new threads into the knuckle and get a new caliper bolt? or should I drill it out to a larger size, tap it, and get a bigger new bolt? Or do I need to get a whole new knuckle? (< least favorite option)
4. Hub is really hard to turn. I am pretty sure I put it back together right, and it does engage the 4wd, so I am not to worried about it. I just can't figure out why it doesn't want to turn.
5. I still have a messed up stud on my spacer, I have not had time to go get a new one yet.

So, i took it for a test drive last night, and it was really hard to turn, especially to the left. I thought maybe power steering, but I checked it, and it was good. So was the belt. So I think the knuckle needs to be broken in a little more. I have only rebuilt the driver's side, Passenger's side is next, but not for at least a week. I am leaving Thursday for a church convention in Jackson Hole (Wyoming), but it looks like this truck wont make it. I will be gone for at least 4 days. Depending upon how bad the snow is, I might be gone for a lot longer. Any ideas for #2 or #4? Sorry for the long post, and thanks for all the help!

twistedtoy92

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you need that ball!!!
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twistedtoy92

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make sure you set the bearing preload to the correct amount, it should take 12-15 pounds of pressure to turn the knuckle and should feel very smooth, no catching or clicking!! marlin sells the knuckle preload tool for like 12bucks or somethin like that!!
2005 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro 380 AWHP @ 24psi
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1985 4runner http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=60737.msg745263#msg745263

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1.  Marlin sells cone washers for the hubs


2.  I doubt the torque on those hub dials is 23 ft/lbs, probably more like 23 in/lbs which is like 6-7 ft/lbs.  That's going to be a tough bolt to remove.

3.  I helicoiled one of my knuckle caliper threads when I was rebuilding my frontend.  Worked perfect.

4.  How much grease is packed in the hubs?  I noticed mine were tough to turn when I had them loaded with grease (really hard to turn in the cold weather).  I removed some of the excess grease and they have worked better.

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