Author Topic: Is this normal? Plus knuckle rebuild questions.  (Read 8217 times)

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KDXSR5

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Is this normal? Plus knuckle rebuild questions.
« on: Aug 26, 2007, 03:39:04 PM »
So, I went wheeling last weekend, and when I came back, I saw this. Is it supposed to be bent like that? It was pulling really hard to the left on the drive back. These are the passangers side




Here is the drivers side

« Last Edit: Sep 13, 2007, 09:01:41 PM by KDXSR5 »

DTB

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #1 on: Aug 26, 2007, 03:42:12 PM »
is your steering arm bent?
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KDXSR5 [OP]

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #2 on: Aug 26, 2007, 03:44:50 PM »
That is what I am asking

KDXSR5 [OP]

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #3 on: Aug 26, 2007, 03:50:24 PM »
Also, My front leaf springs are inverted. Is this normal at all? Are they just very worn out?



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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #4 on: Aug 26, 2007, 03:52:17 PM »
yes those springs are done...are they stock or lifted? yes the steering arm is bent...i would fix it before you drive it again

and put some shoes on too! :spankbutt:
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toyminator2000 There has to be dumb people in order for there to be smart people
Low down & durrrrrrty Rock Stacking Web Wheeler :driving: Too many Yuppies..:shake:...Not enough Hippies :flamer:  Hobbies: stealing cookies, slangin' tacos, owning tequila bars, wheeling with paco

KDXSR5 [OP]

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #5 on: Aug 26, 2007, 04:00:11 PM »
Those are the stock springs. How the hell did I bend a steering arm? :confused: I didn't know I could do that with a completely stock truck! Dang shoes! I always wear shoes, just not this morning. I woke up, took pictures, then went back to bed. If I get it aligned, would that possibly fix it temporarily?

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #6 on: Aug 26, 2007, 04:08:14 PM »
Those are the stock springs. How the hell did I bend a steering arm? :confused: I didn't know I could do that with a completely stock truck! Dang shoes! I always wear shoes, just not this morning. I woke up, took pictures, then went back to bed. If I get it aligned, would that possibly fix it temporarily?
u cant get it aligned with a bent steering arm :nope: looks like it might be time to replace those knuckle seals/overhaul too
RIP KYOTA
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toyminator2000 There has to be dumb people in order for there to be smart people
Low down & durrrrrrty Rock Stacking Web Wheeler :driving: Too many Yuppies..:shake:...Not enough Hippies :flamer:  Hobbies: stealing cookies, slangin' tacos, owning tequila bars, wheeling with paco

KDXSR5 [OP]

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #7 on: Aug 26, 2007, 04:15:30 PM »
I could do some self aligning to try and correct the pull to the left though, couldn't I? I need to drive my truck to school tomorrow-friday, so I guess I can't do anything with it until next weekend. :willynilly: How hard is it to do an overhaul? Can I do it in 4 1/2 hours spread over 3 days? Then I could get credit for it in auto shop! Can I just go to the junkyard and get a new arm? Or is it better to just buy a new one? This sucks! Any idea on how I could have bent it?

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #8 on: Aug 26, 2007, 04:49:00 PM »
It's not hard to do an overhaul, but since it is your first time it might take a while...check this out a look at it before you break into your axle http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=32014.0  I would say yes, you could do it in 4 1/2 hours...but make sure you have the right tools.  Mainly snap ring pliers and I think a 54mm socket to take off the rotor.  Also, you will need a scale to adjust the load on the knuckles (the part that the steering arm is on top of) using the shims Marlin supplies in the kit.  Do a little research on it before next weekend (this forum has a crud load of good stuff when it comes to rebuilding the axle...check out the other threads in the 79-95 tech).  As for the steering arm, I wouldn't drive on it at all (it might be strong enough, but I just don't like to take the chances with my steering)...I would say screw the junk yard and hit me up (with a pm).  If you pay the shipping I will send you a steering arm off of my spare axle (if you are anything like me in high school, you are slightly broke).  Just pay the shipping and it's yours (let me know soon and I can send it out before you overhaul the axle)...passenger side right?
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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #9 on: Aug 26, 2007, 04:57:47 PM »
does anyone have a pic of what it is supposed to look like? I might take you up on that steering arm offer. Just the shipping, right? Yes the  passenger's side, I will need to talk to my parents first. What all do I need to buy from Marlin to rebuild my knuckles? Is it common to bend the steering arms? I don't have another vehicle, and I have been driving it this way for atleast a week now, so should I just stop driving it and get a ride with friends, or should I keep driving it?

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #10 on: Aug 26, 2007, 05:10:32 PM »
I would'nt drive it anymore personally..just a safety thing...but yea ummm u need a knuckle service kit..marlin sells them.....I would pull it apart and check the wheel bearings too...that way if you need them u can include them in the kit....make sure you get bearings with only NGK or Koyo stamped on them..nothing else..if they are the original bearings they are probably shot. Do you notice any play in the tire side to side when u have it jacked up? thats one way to tell..

You will also need a knuckle pull scale (or fish scale), snap ring pliers, torque wrench and a 54 mm hub socket. good luck

RIP KYOTA
Quote
toyminator2000 There has to be dumb people in order for there to be smart people
Low down & durrrrrrty Rock Stacking Web Wheeler :driving: Too many Yuppies..:shake:...Not enough Hippies :flamer:  Hobbies: stealing cookies, slangin' tacos, owning tequila bars, wheeling with paco

79coyotefrg

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #11 on: Aug 26, 2007, 05:13:54 PM »
i dont think the arms  are bent at all i think  your upper trunion bearing have come apart  and are down inside  your knuckle somewhere

AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #12 on: Aug 26, 2007, 05:15:38 PM »
I would'nt drive it anymore personally..just a safety thing...but yea ummm u need a knuckle service kit..marlin sells them.....I would pull it apart and check the wheel bearings too...that way if you need them u can include them in the kit....make sure you get bearings with only NGK or Koyo stamped on them..nothing else..if they are the original bearings they are probably shot. Do you notice any play in the tire side to side when u have it jacked up? thats one way to tell..

You will also need a knuckle pull scale (or fish scale), snap ring pliers, torque wrench and a 54 mm hub socket. good luck


if he gets Marlins kit  he doesnt need to worry what kind of bearings  cause they will be KOYO  original equipment
AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #13 on: Aug 26, 2007, 05:52:59 PM »
knuckles need to be rebuilt anyway (looks like they have a lot of sludge around em').  Does your tire lean?  I had a trunion bearing go out and it made the tire lean (top was moved toward the truck and the bottom was away).  A relatively quick check would be to jack up the passenger side, take off the steering arm, and look to see what kind of condition the bearing is in.  If it turns out to be the bearing I would definitly stop driving it because you never know where the pieces of the bearing are going...and you will never be able to align it if it is the bearing.
He who dies with the most toys...still dies.

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #14 on: Aug 26, 2007, 07:04:54 PM »
Arms are not bent!

Springs are shot!

Jack it up, put on jackstands, grab wheel at 6 and 12 O'Clock and try to move it in and out. If there is any movement, trunion bearings need replacing.

Spin wheels to make sure wheel bearings are good.

If this is the first time you are rebuilding a front-end, no you cannot do it in 3.5 hours and do it right.

Buy the rebuild kit from Marlin and also get his super axle seals.

Here is a link to the FSM on rebuilding the front end;

http://www.lukemiller.org/toys/1985_toyota_4wd_front_axle_FSM.pdf

When you take it apart, be sure to keep track of the shims that go on the bottom capand replace them the same way. This will keep the knuckle centered. From what I can see it does not look like that front-end has every been apart.

Have fun, be prepared to get real dirty!!!!!
David & Theresa Fritzsche, 1990 Ex-Cab with a few mods!!!!!!!!! Roseville, CA Sobriety =Serenity

KDXSR5 [OP]

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #15 on: Aug 26, 2007, 07:16:38 PM »
I looked at my friends 83 steering arm, and it looks the exact same, so I think I will skip the steering arm for now, but thanks alot for the offer. The tire has no play at all when jacked up, It is all nice and tight. As far as I can tell, the tire does not lean and is wearing evenly. I don't think I will be able to do anything with the truck until atleast the middle of the week, and I will be gone from the state next weekend, so I probably wont be able to do anything else for quite a while. My auto teacher may let me take it apart in auto and check everything out. I think I will wash the truck sometime this week so I can see everything better as well. Where is the trunion bearing located? On top of the knuckle? I guess I really need to go find my FSM and start looking through it. That may take a week by iteslf, haha. Well thanks everyone for their help! I will update when I find something out. Also, I am pretty sure the axle has never been taken apart. I bought the truck with 165,000 miles on it, and it had been sitting for a few years because the previous owner blew the engine (only a half quart of black sludge came out when I drained the engine). The truck doesn't appear like it has been abused, just not taken care of properly. On the plus side, the interior of the truck was in perfect condition! Ok enough of my typing, I have two papers to write for tomorrow. Thanks!

Edit: Should I be worried about those springs? I think I might go with OME springs if I can ever figure out where to get them and how hard they are to install. From what I have heard, they are awesome springs. I just want to do a mild lift to fit 33s. I was thinking 1 in. body lift and cut fenders, but if I go with the OME springs I wont have to do the body lift. How much lift would I get from the OME springs? 2 in.?
« Last Edit: Aug 26, 2007, 07:22:29 PM by KDXSR5 »

KDXSR5 [OP]

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #16 on: Aug 27, 2007, 06:21:09 PM »
So I did the jack it up and shake at 12 & 6 oclock about ten minutes ago. I found out that the driver's side is still nice and tight. The passanger's side has movement that can be heard, but not felt or seen. All I here is a slight click and sometimes I can feel a little movemnet, but it might have been my imagination. Is this ok? Or does the trunion bearing need replaced? Help!

89toy

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #17 on: Aug 27, 2007, 06:32:35 PM »
if you hear any noise coming from a bearing when you move the tire like that you should check it out.  I would say the bearing is toast...but if you get the rebuild kit it will come with those (and new races).  It will also fix those leaking knuckles you have.  To make sure, you can do what I was talking about...
A relatively quick check would be to jack up the passenger side, take off the steering arm, and look to see what kind of condition the bearing is in.  If it turns out to be the bearing I would definitly stop driving it because you never know where the pieces of the bearing are going...and you will never be able to align it if it is the bearing.
I did this same thing about 4 months before my bearing completely blew.  I noticed that the bearing was rusted but I didn't have the cash to replace it then.
He who dies with the most toys...still dies.

KDXSR5 [OP]

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #18 on: Aug 27, 2007, 06:36:53 PM »
So I can just take off the stearing arm on the pasenger's side, look down, and see a bearing? I am young and stupid, please forgive me.

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #19 on: Aug 27, 2007, 06:41:13 PM »
no, you probably won't be able to really see the bearing very well through the knuckle (unless you are right on top of it with a light).  All the load will be off of the bearing...put your fingers down into the bearing and move it around and side to side.  If you feel any sort of jumping or if it "wiggles" a lot then it is probably toast (be careful because if it is completely toast you may loose a few bearings down into your knuckle...so just go slow...).  Also, look at the grease on your hands and see if it is brown or not (or even extremely black)...could be rusted if your knuckles are leaking and letting water in.  If you drive through a lot of water it would be a good idea to rebuild your axle (save water from getting in your knuckle and save the water from all the oil).  definitly try and get some springs too...looks like you could actually lift the front of your truck even with stock springs.
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89toy

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #20 on: Aug 27, 2007, 06:47:22 PM »
and just to let you know, when my bearing went out it pulled hard to one side.  I hadn't wheeled it on the trip...but I had gone through a lot of tight turning roads in the mountains.
He who dies with the most toys...still dies.

KDXSR5 [OP]

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #21 on: Aug 27, 2007, 06:50:06 PM »
I am now sure that I am going to rebuild my knuckles, it just might take a few weeks, becuase I am gone next weekend on a trip. So maybe in a couple weeks I will be able to tear it down and rebuild it. I should probably buy the rebuild kt now, so I know that it will be here when I need it. I think I will get the rebuild kit w/ bearings, and some super seals. I think I might also buy the pull scale.


Where should I get NEW springs from? Or should I go with a small lift spring like the OME springs? Has anyone ran these springs? Thank you very much for helping me! I really appreciate it!

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #22 on: Aug 27, 2007, 07:01:08 PM »
Time to break the piggy and get some new springs, High steer and IFS steering box on top of the axle rebuild kit.

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #23 on: Aug 27, 2007, 07:02:52 PM »
I actually would just try and get some used springs (but of course are still good).  Even used will still give you some lift (enough to notice when you look at your truck).  I have a buddy that I need to give a d-shaft back to.  I gave him an 83 and I will see if I can get the front springs for you if you want...they were still good.  I think older springs would be better because if you put more $ into new front springs you will want to lift the rear too (so you don't have that baja look to your truck).  But that is just me...I would put used springs on it and save for a good lift.

If it is your bearing then don't drive it.  
He who dies with the most toys...still dies.

KDXSR5 [OP]

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #24 on: Aug 27, 2007, 07:14:57 PM »
I'll just wait and see what happens. I will rebuild it here pretty soon. I am taking it in for an alignment sometime this week. They will tell me if something is seriously wrong. I bought lifetime alignment on this truck, and so far it has been used about 4 or 5 times. It has paid for itself twice now. Springs will probably have to wait another year. By then I will have enough money to get the truck high enough for some 33x10.50 TSL Radials. I am not trying to make an extreme trail truck out of this thing yet. Maybe in a few years I will be ready to make it a real rig. Also, I thought that the 79-83 springs were not the same as the 84-85 springs?

89toy

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #25 on: Aug 27, 2007, 07:18:12 PM »
I have 33's (tsl) on my 79 with just a little bit of fender trimming.  Anyway, I will check on the springs...anybody know if they are the same or not?  I thought they were but I could be mistaken.
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KDXSR5 [OP]

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #26 on: Aug 29, 2007, 07:11:11 PM »
Ok. I bought a rebuild kit w/bearings, 2 HD seals, a knuckle pull scale, a 54mm socket, and a recovery shackle, because right now I have one Marlin shackle, and one tractor store shackle. I hope to rebuild this thing not this weekend, but next weekend. :hyper: Also, my truck no longer sits level. The driver's side sits lower than the passenger's side, so I know that my springs are shot. Again, I probably wont do anything about it until next year though. Any body know if the 79-83 stock springs are different than the 84-85 stock springs???

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Re: Is this normal?
« Reply #27 on: Aug 29, 2007, 10:40:40 PM »
stock springs are negative arched.  and stock steering arms do bend.

KDXSR5 [OP]

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OK. Driver's side is all torn apart, painted, and ready to be rebuilt. But I have a small problem. When I took my hub apart to paint it and put new grease in it, I lost a piece. This was the first time that I had torn a Toyota hub apart, so I didn't know that there was a small spring with a ball on the end of it inside the red knob. Well, I found the spring, but I can't findthe little ball. Is this ball really all that important?? Does anyone know what I am even talking about? If I do need it, can I get it from Toyota? Or will I have to go to a junkyard and buy a whole hub just for the little tiny ball that may not even be in there? Also, I was missing one of the cone washers for some reason. Where can a replacement cone washer be sourced from? Toyota? Please help!

Thanks

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OK. Driver's side is all torn apart, painted, and ready to be rebuilt. But I have a small problem. When I took my hub apart to paint it and put new grease in it, I lost a piece. This was the first time that I had torn a Toyota hub apart, so I didn't know that there was a small spring with a ball on the end of it inside the red knob. Well, I found the spring, but I can't findthe little ball. Is this ball really all that important?? Does anyone know what I am even talking about? If I do need it, can I get it from Toyota? Or will I have to go to a junkyard and buy a whole hub just for the little tiny ball that may not even be in there? Also, I was missing one of the cone washers for some reason. Where can a replacement cone washer be sourced from? Toyota? Please help!

Thanks
I know you can get cone washers from marlin.as for the ball,head down to junkyard
Pak It In Pack It Out!!

 
 
 
 
 

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