Author Topic: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question  (Read 1568 times)

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Brazos Bill

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Re: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question
« Reply #60 on: Mar 16, 2019, 07:44:50 AM »
your rear pinion angle... make sure to get a 2 drop, compared to the rear driveline angle. Triple measure.

Thanks!  Since installing my Old Man Emu lift I have had a vibration in the back end, particularly at high RPMs - could that be due to a steep rear pinion angle?  How do you control the driveline angle - lowering the Tcases, change the Tcase mounts, modify the axel/diff?  How do you measure/set the angle to get it right?
1987 Std Cab IFS, OME lift, 33" Cooper STT Pro tires
TruTrack front and rear, 4.56 gears
Badland front bumper w/Warn 8000 winch, MC rear bumper & sliders
Corbeau Moab seats, shell w/roof rack

OVRAROK

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Re: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question
« Reply #61 on: Mar 16, 2019, 10:10:20 AM »
Thanks!  Since installing my Old Man Emu lift I have had a vibration in the back end, particularly at high RPMs - could that be due to a steep rear pinion angle?  How do you control the driveline angle - lowering the Tcases, change the Tcase mounts, modify the axel/diff?  How do you measure/set the angle to get it right?

I purchased some new leaf spring perches. Also purchased a magnetic angle finder. Took a few measurement where old perches where located. Cut off old. Cleaned up. Tacked new perches. Installed ubolts, just enough to snug it all up. At this point. With vehicle on all four tires. I loaded roughly half my stuff that I take wheeling. Then used my floor jack and a piece of wood, placed on pinion housing. Make sure your on the housing. Using jack. I broke tack welds. This allowed me to adjust my pinion angle. Afterwords I tacked again. Then removed axle so that I could finish welding.
Regarding getting the angles dialed in...  I positioned my pinion exact with driveline angle. After triple measuring, and writing a few notes I then positioned rear pinion 2 degrees down.
Even the most primitive society, has an intimate respect for the insane.

blackdiamond

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Re: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question
« Reply #62 on: Mar 16, 2019, 11:57:37 AM »
Thanks!  Should I upgrade the mounts?  To OEM or is another recommended?

Dual OEM (so really one new) is what most would recommend I think.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

Snowtoy

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Re: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question
« Reply #63 on: Mar 16, 2019, 12:41:45 PM »
Well, that makes sense.  :smack:

I was heavy on the throttle to keep it going up the hill without stalling and was moving faster than was comfortable.  Going slower would have been much less scary and increased my control while improving my reaction time. Preventing the hop is a big bonus.

Another reason for the dual cases...  Now I am really getting excited about getting this done!  Sounds like this will solve many of my trail challenges.

What you were experiencing often ends with broken drivetrain components as well, another benefit of being able to move slower over the same terrain.

If you haven't seen the speed at which dual cases can go, the store has a video her
https://www.marlincrawler.com/gallery/videos/transfer-case
and others like this one can be found on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMvCChImPPQ
'90 black X-cab mod'd 3.0, 33's/4.88's, rear ARB, custom bumpers, sliders, safari rack, etc.
'91 Blue X-cab 22re, 35's/5.29's,Truetrac front, ARB rear, dual cases, and custom Safari flatbed, bumper, interior.
The money pit '87 Supra resto/mod

Snowtoy

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Re: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question
« Reply #64 on: Mar 16, 2019, 01:38:13 PM »
Since installing my Old Man Emu lift I have had a vibration in the back end, particularly at high RPMs - could that be due to a steep rear pinion angle?
Could be, could also simply be your u-joints are due to be replaced, 2" or less of lift usually doesn't cause issues with u-joints.  U-joints wear in their normally operating angle, when worn, vibrations are normally felt under acceleration/deceleration through the seat due to the change in the angle of the u-joints, and normally felt before you hear the "ping" when backing up or moving forward from a stop.  The small lift from the OME springs, put the u-joints in new angle, likely the same as under deceleration, or a little steeper, and is likely why you feel the vibrations.

Quote
How do you control the driveline angle - lowering the Tcases, change the Tcase mounts, modify the axel/diff?  How do you measure/set the angle to get it right?

Depending on what you have now, x-cab or standard cab, you may not need to change the angle of the pinion, if you do, you may need nothing more than a 2-3* shim between the springs and perch, the use of a CV joint, or the route that OVRAROK did.  A stop at your local driveline shop should give you an idea if what you will need to do with the shorter rear driveline and the lift you have now, the front should only need to be lengthened.
'90 black X-cab mod'd 3.0, 33's/4.88's, rear ARB, custom bumpers, sliders, safari rack, etc.
'91 Blue X-cab 22re, 35's/5.29's,Truetrac front, ARB rear, dual cases, and custom Safari flatbed, bumper, interior.
The money pit '87 Supra resto/mod

blackdiamond

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Re: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question
« Reply #65 on: Mar 16, 2019, 02:23:53 PM »
You'll likely be doing drivelines if you make the switch to dual t-cases so keep that in mind.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

Brazos Bill [OP]

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Re: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question
« Reply #66 on: Mar 16, 2019, 04:10:04 PM »
I purchased some new leaf spring perches. Also purchased a magnetic angle finder. Took a few measurement where old perches where located. Cut off old. Cleaned up. Tacked new perches. Installed ubolts, just enough to snug it all up. At this point. With vehicle on all four tires. I loaded roughly half my stuff that I take wheeling. Then used my floor jack and a piece of wood, placed on pinion housing. Make sure your on the housing. Using jack. I broke tack welds. This allowed me to adjust my pinion angle. Afterwords I tacked again. Then removed axle so that I could finish welding.
Regarding getting the angles dialed in...  I positioned my pinion exact with driveline angle. After triple measuring, and writing a few notes I then positioned rear pinion 2 degrees down.

Thanks!
1987 Std Cab IFS, OME lift, 33" Cooper STT Pro tires
TruTrack front and rear, 4.56 gears
Badland front bumper w/Warn 8000 winch, MC rear bumper & sliders
Corbeau Moab seats, shell w/roof rack

Brazos Bill [OP]

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Re: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question
« Reply #67 on: Mar 16, 2019, 04:14:38 PM »
Dual OEM (so really one new) is what most would recommend I think.

Great, Thanks!
1987 Std Cab IFS, OME lift, 33" Cooper STT Pro tires
TruTrack front and rear, 4.56 gears
Badland front bumper w/Warn 8000 winch, MC rear bumper & sliders
Corbeau Moab seats, shell w/roof rack

Brazos Bill [OP]

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Re: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question
« Reply #68 on: Mar 16, 2019, 04:16:59 PM »
Could be, could also simply be your u-joints are due to be replaced, 2" or less of lift usually doesn't cause issues with u-joints.  U-joints wear in their normally operating angle, when worn, vibrations are normally felt under acceleration/deceleration through the seat due to the change in the angle of the u-joints, and normally felt before you hear the "ping" when backing up or moving forward from a stop.  The small lift from the OME springs, put the u-joints in new angle, likely the same as under deceleration, or a little steeper, and is likely why you feel the vibrations.

Thanks,  I will include U-Joint replacements when I do this since it will be apart anyway and I am at 200k + miles and have no idea if or when they were replaced.
1987 Std Cab IFS, OME lift, 33" Cooper STT Pro tires
TruTrack front and rear, 4.56 gears
Badland front bumper w/Warn 8000 winch, MC rear bumper & sliders
Corbeau Moab seats, shell w/roof rack

Brazos Bill [OP]

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Re: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question
« Reply #69 on: Mar 16, 2019, 04:17:57 PM »
You'll likely be doing drivelines if you make the switch to dual t-cases so keep that in mind.

Will do, thanks!
1987 Std Cab IFS, OME lift, 33" Cooper STT Pro tires
TruTrack front and rear, 4.56 gears
Badland front bumper w/Warn 8000 winch, MC rear bumper & sliders
Corbeau Moab seats, shell w/roof rack

Brazos Bill [OP]

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Re: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question
« Reply #70 on: Mar 16, 2019, 04:22:43 PM »
What you were experiencing often ends with broken drivetrain components as well, another benefit of being able to move slower over the same terrain.

If you haven't seen the speed at which dual cases can go, the store has a video her
https://www.marlincrawler.com/gallery/videos/transfer-case
and others like this one can be found on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMvCChImPPQ

Yeah, I'm surprised I haven't broken anything.  Another tribute to the over engineering of the Toyotas!  I have seen the vids - one of the reasons I am going to add the dual cases.
1987 Std Cab IFS, OME lift, 33" Cooper STT Pro tires
TruTrack front and rear, 4.56 gears
Badland front bumper w/Warn 8000 winch, MC rear bumper & sliders
Corbeau Moab seats, shell w/roof rack

emsvitil

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Re: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question
« Reply #71 on: Mar 16, 2019, 05:57:36 PM »
You also modify the driver's side motor mount by putting a bolt thru as torque stop.
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Brazos Bill [OP]

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Re: To SAS or not to SAS, that is the question
« Reply #72 on: Mar 18, 2019, 08:40:38 PM »
So I notice on MC site that the Marlin Dual Case Complete has 2 $400 core charges.  My current TC will work for one core charge.  Any ideas on getting a donor TC for the second core charge besides working at a junk yard?
1987 Std Cab IFS, OME lift, 33" Cooper STT Pro tires
TruTrack front and rear, 4.56 gears
Badland front bumper w/Warn 8000 winch, MC rear bumper & sliders
Corbeau Moab seats, shell w/roof rack

 
 
 
 
 

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