Author Topic: Toybrota's 22R build  (Read 35374 times)

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Gnarly4X

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #240 on: Dec 23, 2018, 04:42:58 PM »
..I installed the air-cleaner today.

I like the air filter, good idea.  I think the stock air filter may be slightly restrictive. 

I did this to my 22R and it was VERY noticeable.

I stacked 2 stock paper filters.

https://imgur.com/a/TSMElO6

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #241 on: Dec 23, 2018, 04:46:03 PM »
I would fill transmission with redline mt90. It's the best for these old toyota transmissions.  :twocents:

Redline MT90 or MTL or Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear oil would be good choices.  I doubt your transmission will notice any difference. Your shifts will be smoother, and noticeble from conventional dino lube.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #242 on: Dec 23, 2018, 04:49:12 PM »
Redline MT90 or MTL or Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear oil would be good choices.  I doubt your transmission will notice any difference. Your shifts will be smoother, and noticeble from conventional dino lube.

Gnarls.
That's what I'm thinking! That's why I'm going to take your advice. I may try both eventually, but your advice for the Mobil 1 is what I'll use.

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OVRAROK

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #243 on: Dec 23, 2018, 04:52:04 PM »
Redline MT90 or MTL or Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear oil would be good choices.  I doubt your transmission will notice any difference. Your shifts will be smoother, and noticeble from conventional dino lube.

Gnarls.

I like the fact that your first written choice was MT90... LOL
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Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #244 on: Dec 23, 2018, 05:04:24 PM »
I found Red Line MT-90 for $12.40 a quart over at:

https://goo.gl/LgZ9GG

That's $74.40 (shipping not included) for a transmission/T-case fill, with the G52 taking 4.1 quarts and the RF1A takes 1.7

For 6 quarts of the Mobil 1, it would be anywhere from $10 to 13 a quart. For the price, I will probably just go with redline.


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Gnarly4X

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #245 on: Dec 23, 2018, 05:04:50 PM »
I like the fact that your first written choice was MT90... LOL

MTL was what the Redline tech suggested for my W56, and I told her I live in Phoenix, AZ.  The MT-90 has a higher Poise  value for viscosity in extreme low temperatures.  Mobil 1 has a lower number.  I think for colder climates, I'd go with a lower viscosity index.  I like the feel of Mobil 1.  I bought it because it was off-the-shelf at Autozone and less per quart than Redline, and it's highly rated.

Gnarls. 
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #246 on: Dec 23, 2018, 05:07:45 PM »
... I will probably just go with redline.


Can't go wrong! :thumbs:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #247 on: Dec 24, 2018, 07:39:31 PM »
More done today. I plumbed up my vacuum lines as per the 82' Canadian spec. No emissions or smog equipment. Just cold start stuff like the BVSV for the AAP and the choke stuff.
I also cleaned the heater core out, I filled it with CLR and cleaned it with vinegar before flushing it with some coolant. Oil pan bolted on too, and oil pump primed.
This next weekend I'm gonna prime the oil system and probably start it.
I actually like the grease gun hose, it's 1/8th npt which fits into my adapter that goes into the block. I may attach the plastic line to this hose utilizing that thicker hose in an area where stuff could get caught. I am thinking about having a custom hose made, it'd be super easy.
I am also thinking about getting an emissions test to see if it's running right. Do you think this air cleaner will make it run way lean? To the point of being bad?

Gnarly you had the double filter with even more airflow, and I'd imagine you had stock jetting.


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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #248 on: Dec 24, 2018, 08:21:39 PM »
Yeah. Thats what I put in mine after the fresh rebuild Zippo just did on mine. It shifts real smooth. Synchros seem happy.
-1987 SR5 4runner, 1KZ-te turbo diesel with custom 3" S.S. dump pipe, R-151f transmission, marlin dual ultimate transfer cases w/ triple shifter, SAS, 35's https://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98969.0
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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #249 on: Dec 25, 2018, 03:56:17 AM »
The problem with an open filter is you get the hot engine compartment air into the engine.


You need a stock style, but V8 sized with a cold air snorkel(s).
Ed
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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #250 on: Dec 25, 2018, 04:30:03 AM »

I am also thinking about getting an emissions test to see if it's running right. Do you think this air cleaner will make it run way lean? To the point of being bad?

Gnarly you had the double filter with even more airflow, and I'd imagine you had stock jetting.


Hey T,

I did the double gnarly air filter mod because I added a DT header and larger exhaust, and was curious about the restrictive stock air filter canister.  I was blown away at the difference it made at cruising speeds.  I could actually shift into 5th gear and freeway speeds where before I had to stay in 4th and slightly slower MPH.  The amount of added torque at 3200 RPM was amazing, and if I hadn't done it, I would not have believed the difference.

The carb was factory stock.  The AFR was not negatively affected as far as I could tell.  I pulled plugs and check frequently.

As far as passing any smog EPA testing... I don't know what that air filter will do.  Physically it may not pass because it's not factory stock, but I would very surprised if the extra air flow will cause any lean mixture.  The Toyota factory Aisin carb is really smart and an incredibly well designed for all kinds of elevation, ambient air temp, and relative humidity changes. 

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #251 on: Dec 25, 2018, 04:39:11 AM »
The problem with an open filter is you get the hot engine compartment air into the engine.


You need a stock style, but V8 sized with a cold air snorkel(s).

Hey e,

Yes... the openly exposed air filter does draw air from the engine bay, as opposed to an external tube.  But... the elevated air temperature that the engine will breath is not a big issue at cruise speeds.  The added "flow" with the larger air filter is more of a benefit than the any AFR issue caused by the higher air temps in the engine bay.

Of course a cooler intake air temp is typically more dense and should produce better combustion, right?  My 22R was noticeably more peppy when our temps were low and humidity higher.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #252 on: Dec 25, 2018, 09:16:27 AM »
Motor and gear oil on it's way. I ended up paying way more for both than what I could have gotten elsewhere. I bought on Amazon, I got some cards from the holidays so I used them up.
6 quarts of Redline MT-90 and 6 quarts of joe Gibbs break-in oil.
I plan to change just the filter after the initial cam break-in. Good insurance so why not?
I go back to second semester of my welding degree the 7th of January, hoping I get her done by then!

Now for a question on climate. Is having this engines first start being cold (around 30°) going to be bad?
I don't have a garage, I work under my covered carport. I can use various space heaters to warm the engine prior, which would help.

For the first 1500 miles, I will only drive this truck to work at night on the weekdays and whenever on the weekends. The campus I go to requires me to take the freeway (unless I wanna take 45 minutes) so I will just take my Xtracab. I work downtown and I can drive on the city roads, good break-in for some RPM variance. On the weekends I'll try and take it out more to get some break-in miles on it.

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Gnarly4X

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #253 on: Dec 25, 2018, 10:22:29 AM »
... Now for a question on climate. Is having this engines first start being cold (around 30°) going to be bad?
I don't have a garage, I work under my covered carport. I can use various space heaters to warm the engine prior, which would help.


Hey T,

Get’n closer!  Thank you for the progress reports!

Great question!

Cold oil is not good.  NASCAR engines have heaters that heat the motor oil BEFORE they fire the engines every time they start them.

Our kitchen faucet hot water comes out at about 117.5 degrees this time of year.  It is below the temperature to burn skin quickly, but hot enough to create just enough pain that you don’t want to hold your hand under the faucet for over about 5 or 6 seconds.

Here’s what I’d do if I was going to fire a freshly rebuilt engine in 30d F ambient air temperature….

I would get the engine completely ready to fire for the initial camshaft break-in.  I would take a big tub, place the 5 quarts of break-in oil in it, immediately fill it the buckets of hot tap water.  I’d let it set for about 5 to 10 minutes. Then take the quarts of oil out, dry them off, pour them into the engine, and immediately fire the engine.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #254 on: Dec 25, 2018, 10:41:05 AM »
Hey T,

Get’n closer!  Thank you for the progress reports!

Great question!

Cold oil is not good.  NASCAR engines have heaters that heat the motor oil BEFORE they fire the engines every time they start them.

Our kitchen faucet hot water comes out at about 117.5 degrees this time of year.  It is below the temperature to burn skin quickly, but hot enough to create just enough pain that you don’t want to hold your hand under the faucet for over about 5 or 6 seconds.

Here’s what I’d do if I was going to fire a freshly rebuilt engine in 30d F ambient air temperature….

I would get the engine completely ready to fire for the initial camshaft break-in.  I would take a big tub, place the 5 quarts of break-in oil in it, immediately fill it the buckets of hot tap water.  I’d let it set for about 5 to 10 minutes. Then take the quarts of oil out, dry them off, pour them into the engine, and immediately fire the engine.

Gnarls.
Fantastic idea. I will also put a Heater in the engine bay to warm it up. My tap water comes out hot, best boiling is not bad but I need to be able to transport it.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #255 on: Dec 27, 2018, 08:57:00 AM »
Another question, this time on zinc additives!

Is it a bad idea to run it every oil change? I've heard yes from some, but not really a no from what I've looked up. My break-in oil already has a high zinc content, so I won't run an additive with it. After the first oil change (400 miles on rebuild) Should I run a zinc additive for extra insurance? I'll be running 10W30 probably year round, and just Pennzoil. The oils from around when this truck came out and way more zinc compared to now, so wouldn't it be smart to run it?


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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #256 on: Dec 27, 2018, 09:44:36 AM »
Good news! My gear oil, engine oil and a few other things needed come tomorrow. I am gonna start it on Saturday!
For heat I found this: https://goo.gl/458Z9T

It's an engine heater that works a electromagnet and heats up the block. This will get it night and toasty for that first run. I may drive it around a ton, I want to get it broken in properly and I may do that over the course of the next week.
Getting really excited! Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #257 on: Dec 27, 2018, 06:14:56 PM »
My opinion is that they've figured out an oil additive package that doesn't need the zinc anymore.

(At least for overhead cam engines, probably for non-extreme non-roller tappet in block engines too)

After break-in, a slippy synthetic with it's additive package should be fine.
Ed
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22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #258 on: Dec 27, 2018, 06:20:12 PM »
My opinion is that they've figured out an oil additive package that doesn't need the zinc anymore.

(At least for overhead cam engines, probably for non-extreme non-roller tappet in block engines too)

After break-in, a slippy synthetic with it's additive package should be fine.

I think it has more to do with the evolution of the engine. Less valve seat pressure, roller lifters, less wear in general. No longer needed for a new car.
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #259 on: Dec 28, 2018, 04:44:42 AM »
I think it has more to do with the evolution of the engine. Less valve seat pressure, roller lifters ....

Actually that is not true.  Today's engine designs typically produce power at higher RPMS.  Higher RPMs require more valve spring pressure... more "valve seat pressure".  Roller lifters typically are heavier and require more valve spring pressure.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #260 on: Dec 28, 2018, 04:47:09 AM »
I think it has more to do with the evolution of the engine. Less valve seat pressure, roller lifters, less wear in general. No longer needed for a new car.
"less wear in general"... probably true.  Do the new modern engines need ZDDP or zinc additives... probably not.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Dec 28, 2018, 05:21:19 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #261 on: Dec 28, 2018, 05:19:05 AM »
Another question, this time on zinc additives!

... Should I run a zinc additive for extra insurance?...


Good question.

Some years back zinc and phosphorus additives were dropped or reduced from oil formulations because of environmental issues, combustion carbon, and catalytic converter damage.  Zinc supplies are not keeping up with demands and zinc mining worldwide is being reduced, so there may be a cost factor as well.

Do you need zinc in engine oil for a 22?  Depends on who you talk to.  I know a cam grinder that’s been grinding cams for over 20 years and for 22s he recommends a zinc motor oil.  And for early flat tappet cams and lifters, zinc is highly recommended.

You could use a diesel oil like T6 with more zinc and phosphorus.

I don’t know what the rate of camshaft failures is for our early 20s and 22s.

If you are looking to help reduce long term wear, after a good engine break-in, you might consider running a synthetic oil with a low viscosity like Mobil 1 0w-40.  Since more wear occurs at cold starts, in a very cold climate I’d be running all synthetic oils and gear lubes because synthetics flow better at lower ambient temperatures.

Camshaft failure in a 22 is probably more often caused by lack of preventative maintenance (valve lash adjustments) improper valve spring pressure, lack of proper heat treating (carburizing) of reground aftermarket cams, or other factors other than simply a lubrication failure.

I believe 22RE Performance recommends just using standard dino oil.

That’s just my opinion – it may be worthless.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #262 on: Dec 28, 2018, 05:29:51 AM »
My opinion is that they've figured out an oil additive package that doesn't need the zinc anymore.

(At least for overhead cam engines, probably for non-extreme non-roller tappet in block engines too)

After break-in, a slippy synthetic with it's additive package should be fine.

I agree.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #263 on: Dec 28, 2018, 04:36:34 PM »
A ton happened today, more progress on the truck.

I filled the rad and block with coolant, through the water neck and rad cap. 50/50 prestone, good stuff.
I installed a conventional block heater, the one you install in the freeze plug hole. Really cheap too, under $30! I have one on my other 85' 4X4, and I like it.
I figured the block heater coupled with hot oil will make it get that first start done good.

Like I mentioned, I am going to change the filter after the cam break-in, this is more to just clean out anything that potentially was in the block. Like dust.
I picked up a Toyota filter today, $3!

I bled and checked over the clutch hydraulics, and they are working great. I've however ran into my first comparability issue with the early 22R valve cover.
The throttle cable holder doesn't fit right, supposed to have 2 bolts but I've only got one. Tomorrow I'm going to re-drill the holes.

She's looking good! I am mounting a Tachometer and Oil pressure gauge in the engine bay, as I will be watching it like a hawk for that first break in. I don't need a tach to know when to shift good on these trucks, I think everyone gets there after awhile.
The Tachometer is just to help me keep my eyes on a solid RPM throughout the cam break-in. The oil pressure gauge is there for the same purpose. I'm also running the factory light so if anything was bad while driving, I would know.

I would like to do a decent oil pressure gauge in the cab at some point, like an auto meter.

I am starting the truck tomorrow, I'm excited!

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #264 on: Dec 29, 2018, 06:14:56 AM »
It's look'n good!!!

I have not installed Autometer mechanical gauges in my Toy truck yet, but I have always had mechanical oil and an ammeter, and a tach in my vehicles.

You might consider turning those tie wraps down.  The little clipped off piece sticks up and is extremely sharp.

I'm curious about the block heater.  So it installs in one of the freeze plug holes.  You remove a freeze plug and stick it in the hole?  What keeps it from leaking coolant?  Is it a permanent installation, or do you remove it when not needing it?  :dunno:

Gnarls. :inthedark:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #265 on: Dec 29, 2018, 07:11:12 AM »
It's look'n good!!!

I have not installed Autometer mechanical gauges in my Toy truck yet, but I have always had mechanical oil and an ammeter, and a tach in my vehicles.

You might consider turning those tie wraps down.  The little clipped off piece sticks up and is extremely sharp.

I'm curious about the block heater.  So it installs in one of the freeze plug holes.  You remove a freeze plug and stick it in the hole?  What keeps it from leaking coolant?  Is it a permanent installation, or do you remove it when not needing it?  :dunno:

Gnarls. :inthedark:
For the block heater, it is a permanent solution. There's an O-ring that seals in the plug hole, and it uses clamping force to stay in the bore.




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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #266 on: Dec 29, 2018, 03:28:10 PM »
Hey everyone, good news!

Today I fired up the motor for the first time!
I first cranked it without the spark plugs in so I could get good oil pressure. After 30 seconds of cranking it the light went out and it was time to go.

It started right up, and idled great. I did my first assessment to make sure it wasn't leaking from anywhere, which it isn't.

Then I started the procedure to break-in the cam, which I decided on 15 min at 1500 rpm as 22RE performance recommends. About one minute in, and the block heater I installed blew out! Hot coolant everywhere!! I quickly shut it down.
Not sure why the heater failed, I tightened the nut that spreads the arms that hold it in. I may take it back and get a new one if I can't get it to seal.

Worst comes to worse, I'll just install the freeze-plug back in.

After filling it up with coolant she won't start. I abstained from cranking too long as that would put more fuel in the cylinders than I want. Any reasons why? It can't be anything insane if it ran great before I had to shut it down. Got it to sputter but no start. Timing hasn't been set yet, but had it been a tooth off the chain it wouldn't run at all or very poorly.

Excited! Thanks everyone.

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Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #267 on: Dec 29, 2018, 04:00:42 PM »
Just got off the phone with my local AutoZone. They have a cooling system pressure tester, it will allow me to pressurize the cooling system as if it was running, this way I can track down any leaks so I don't have this issue.

22RE Performance recommends you do this very thing before startup...

Like I mentioned though, the engine ran fantastic! No shakes, weird noises or anything. And no valve tick!
Well, after a new cam/rockers/adjusters I'd expect as much.

Tomorrow I will rent this and then get this issue solved. Let's get this done!

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Gnarly4X

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #268 on: Dec 30, 2018, 03:37:02 AM »
Hey Toybrota,

Well… it's great that you got your engine to fire right up and it sounded really good.  :beerchug:

Leaks at 1st time start ups are not uncommon.  I’ve had coolant leaks almost every time I have fired a fully rebuilt or partially rebuilt engine.

I am very careful about trusting what any auto parts store says, they’re in the “sell-you-everything” business.  ???

Regarding the block heater, when I looked at the photo I could not see how it would have enough contact with the block freeze plug bore to sufficiently seal.  But I have never used a block heater.  As you know, freeze plugs are pounded in under a very tight tolerance.  The amount of pressure (pounds per square inch) on those plugs is about 30 PSI if your radiator cap is 13 lb. cap!  Risking a coolant leak that size would be crazy.  I would consider a different block heater.  :blah:

Pressure testing a coolant system when an engine is cold and pressure testing when it’s at normal running temperature are two different things.  :shake:

My guess is the reason it didn’t restart is probably mixture (air/fuel) issue and nothing mechanical.   :thumbs:

If engine ran for about 60 seconds, that is plenty of time to get the oil up into the rockers, cam, through all the bearings and cylinder walls. :D

Obviously you got another 15 minutes at RPMs to complete the camshaft break-in.

Gnarls.  :gap:




« Last Edit: Dec 30, 2018, 06:36:36 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

emsvitil

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #269 on: Dec 30, 2018, 04:53:07 AM »
My first start is always with plain old water...……..

just saying.





 :yupyup:


 :idea:
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

 
 
 
 
 

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