Author Topic: Toybrota's 22R build  (Read 28038 times)

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Gnarly4X

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #300 on: Jan 19, 2019, 09:04:58 AM »
Question about redline Gear oil.


Of course MT-90 is still available.  MT-85 is just a 75-85W, MT-90 is 75-90W…. I’d bet a 6-pack you would NOT be able to tell the difference in shifting.  If you live a colder climate, the MT-85 would flow a little better at lower temperatures.

Regarding shifts… for me it may be very difficult to determine “how” a shift should feel.  I prefer a “crisp” shift where there is a detective feel in my hand at the shifter when the gears change.  After having two W56 5-speeds rebuilt, the shifts were tight, with some noticeable momentary force at the moment of gear change.  Once the new synchros become balance in their friction forces, the shifts became smoother with less detective force at gear change.

After 100K+ miles on synchos the feel of the shifts become harder and require more force at the stick to change gears, either shift up or shift down, more on down-shifting.

I’d go with whatever Redline Technical people advise…. They are the experts.

If I lived in a cold climate, I’d be running full synthetic oils and gear lubes.

That just my opinion – it may be worthless.

Gnarls.


1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #301 on: Jan 19, 2019, 09:25:51 AM »
Of course MT-90 is still available.  MT-85 is just a 75-85W, MT-90 is 75-90W…. I’d bet a 6-pack you would NOT be able to tell the difference in shifting.  If you live a colder climate, the MT-85 would flow a little better at lower temperatures.

Regarding shifts… for me it may be very difficult to determine “how” a shift should feel.  I prefer a “crisp” shift where there is a detective feel in my hand at the shifter when the gears change.  After having two W56 5-speeds rebuilt, the shifts were tight, with some noticeable momentary force at the moment of gear change.  Once the new synchros become balance in their friction forces, the shifts became smoother with less detective force at gear change.

After 100K+ miles on synchos the feel of the shifts become harder and require more force at the stick to change gears, either shift up or shift down, more on down-shifting.

I’d go with whatever Redline Technical people advise…. They are the experts.

If I lived in a cold climate, I’d be running full synthetic oils and gear lubes.

That just my opinion – it may be worthless.

Gnarls.
I've got a return from Amazon, I'm getting Redline MT-90 instead of the 85.

I replaced the clutch master and slave, as well as the shift seat with a Marlin Delrin seat. She shifts great, sometimes in second it doesn't shift how I'd want it to. But I realized, EVERY other G52 I've driven has been like that. I'm just super duper paranoid because it's my new truck! Old truck has valve tap like a mofo, this new one barely does and I still freak out.

Good news, I am almost at 600 total miles on the rebuild! Yesterday I put a little over 50 miles on it and it never once gave me a single issue. Oil level stayed consistent. Which, after letting the truck leak a bit more I CAN confirm it's the oil pan and NOT the rear main. I got a good flash light and looked in the peep hole and it's dry as can be.


I appreciate all the help everyone has provided, specifically you Gnarls! I'd buy you all a beer if I could.

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Gnarly4X

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #302 on: Jan 20, 2019, 11:50:36 AM »
...I CAN confirm it's the oil pan and NOT the rear main. I got a good flash light and looked in the peep hole and it's dry as can be. 

 That's why I asked if you could see motor oil or gear oil seeping through that little hole.  :thumbs:

Quote
I appreciate all the help everyone has provided, specifically you Gnarls! I'd buy you all a beer if I could.

Well.... thank you Toybrota!  I'd take you up on it if I could.  I have gotten many great tips and information from people who are willing to take the time to share it on forums like this one and I always enjoy giving back something if I can.... even if it turns out to be a worthless opinion.  :disturbed:

I am proud of you for being smart about rebuild and for taking the time to share your experiences here on the forum.  :beerchug:

I hope that engine runs like a raped ape for many years!  :best:

Gnarls.  :gap:

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #303 on: Jan 20, 2019, 09:29:13 PM »
I managed to seal an oil pan leaking bolt by gooping RTV around it...……...
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Toybrota [OP]

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #304 on: Jan 21, 2019, 01:16:03 AM »
I managed to seal an oil pan leaking bolt by gooping RTV around it...……...
An idea. Right now I'm doing nothing. I swear just one drip in my driveway from overnight. Just gonna drive it and enjoy it. Near the 600 mile mark on the rebuild. All city driving. Varying the RPM as much as possible.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #305 on: Jan 23, 2019, 11:53:19 AM »
Hey all, since the last two fuel ups I've been getting over 17 mpg! I think that's pretty darn good considering it's a fresh rebuilt motor. I'm just about to hit 700 miles total.
I've been saving my receipts and documenting my mileage ever since the engine first started, partly because I deliver food on the weekends and I want a tax write off. Also, so I can see how many gallons and how far I went for each tank.
I don't drive the truck fuel conscious either, I don't lug it in a high gear while cruising. This way, it'll help break the rings in more (higher RPM, more fluctuations in RPM)
After the first 1000 miles when I start driving it on the freeway, I am certain I'll get better MPG.
Yeah, it's not been on the freeway.

The new engine "break-in" I've been following is what Toyota recommend in the owner's manual.
Don't go over 55 for the first 1000 means no freeway.
No cruising at speeds for long periods of time.
No lugging the motor (never heard it ping)
I also follow the Toyota recommended shift points...

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Gillesdetrail

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #306 on: Jan 23, 2019, 03:35:04 PM »
What is your timing set at?

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #307 on: Jan 23, 2019, 04:21:27 PM »
What is your timing set at?


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Lewis Hein

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #308 on: Jan 23, 2019, 04:26:24 PM »
 :clap:

Gnarly4X

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #309 on: Jan 25, 2019, 07:25:12 AM »

The new engine "break-in" I've been following is what Toyota recommend in the owner's manual.
Don't go over 55 for the first 1000 means no freeway.
No cruising at speeds for long periods of time.
No lugging the motor (never heard it ping)
I also follow the Toyota recommended shift points...


Engine rebuild break-ins.... very interesting topic.  :gap:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #310 on: Feb 01, 2019, 10:23:25 AM »
Getting 18 MPG. Gonna hit 1000 miles on the rebuild today. Runs and drives amazing. Going to start taking it on the freeway for small short distances and working my way up to assess reliability while cruising longer distances. I'm limiting my speed to 70 MPH as that only has the engine spinning at 2800RPM.
Also, 600 miles on this oil change and NO oil consumption whatsoever. Oil pan drips a drop or two overnight. Cam is wearing great. No valve tap.

I'd say this rebuild was a success! The biggest trip will be from Salt Lake City to Vancouver WA in a few months when I move. No doubt in my mind it'll do great.

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EASYRYDERDANGER

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #311 on: Feb 02, 2019, 09:44:06 AM »
Sweet, you can go wheeling with besgen

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #312 on: Feb 02, 2019, 10:02:57 AM »
Sweet, you can go wheeling with besgen
Sure can! There's tons of guys up in the PNW with Toyota's. Yotashop is up in Vancouver too, I'm gonna see if I can secure a job with them if they are hiring!

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #313 on: Feb 02, 2019, 10:08:20 AM »
First trip on the freeway went well! Did 70 no problem. Truck does vibrate a bit at speed... But that's for a separate thread.
I also attempted to go have it emissions tested, with no smog equipment on the motor. Why? Well, I'm a strong believer that it would pass the tail pipe test, just not the under-hood "visual" test. I wanted to test this theory, but they wouldn't even test it with no smog stuff on board. That conversation was followed up with me asking if they are obligated to tell the authorities of my non compliant vehicle. I can confirm they don't.



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EASYRYDERDANGER

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #314 on: Feb 02, 2019, 03:47:58 PM »
Just ask automotive shops if they have a 5gas.  Also, it would almost certainly pass the wa state test cause they jacked up the numbers about 6 years ago.  I wanna say 400ppm on HC, fogot what CO was?  Basically, if you dont have dead miss, you PASS!

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #315 on: Feb 02, 2019, 03:52:32 PM »
Just ask automotive shops if they have a 5gas.  Also, it would almost certainly pass the wa state test cause they jacked up the numbers about 6 years ago.  I wanna say 400ppm on HC, fogot what CO was?  Basically, if you dont have dead miss, you PASS!
luckily, in Vancouver no emissions 25 years old and back! They also are fine with street legal dirtbikes.

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EASYRYDERDANGER

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #316 on: Feb 02, 2019, 05:33:45 PM »
Same here

NotPossible907

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #317 on: Feb 03, 2019, 08:28:52 AM »
Gotta move somewhere else... No emissions on anything here! Even newer vehicles, wait for warranty to be done and rip all emissions off.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #318 on: Feb 03, 2019, 02:00:43 PM »
Engine rebuild break-ins.... very interesting topic.  :gap:

Gnarls.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #319 on: Feb 05, 2019, 03:24:07 PM »
Well, I've almost hit 1000 miles on this oil change, and there is NO drop in oil level. That's with a slight oil pan leak! No oil consumption makes me happy!

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #320 on: Feb 13, 2019, 02:55:30 PM »
1500 miles on the rebuild now. Runs like a raped ape.
Really been fightin' to get absolutely no valve tick. I'm guessing most just give up after awhile.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #321 on: Feb 13, 2019, 05:46:05 PM »
Aluminum rockers will make a bit of noise.  Only way I've got rid of it completely is to use the old style steel rockers.  Don't stress on it too much.
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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #322 on: Feb 13, 2019, 06:43:20 PM »
1500 miles on the rebuild now. Runs like a raped ape.
Really been fightin' to get absolutely no valve tick. I'm guessing most just give up after awhile.

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Hey T...

You will be fighting a battle I don't believe you are going to win.  These engines make rocker noise.  The very best you should expect is to get the rocker tick balanced across all 8 valves.

By the way... a bad stock fuel pump can sound like rocker tick.  And... an exhaust leak at the exhaust manifold or header can sometimes sound like rocker tick.  Also... if you not paying attention, a timing chain can also sound similar to a rocker tick.

That's just my opinion - in may be worthless.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #323 on: Feb 13, 2019, 07:00:31 PM »
Hey T...

You will be fighting a battle I don't believe you are going to win.  These engines make rocker noise.  The very best you should expect is to get the rocker tick balanced across all 8 valves.

By the way... a bad stock fuel pump can sound like rocker tick.  And... an exhaust leak at the exhaust manifold or header can sometimes sound like rocker tick.  Also... if you not paying attention, a timing chain can also sound similar to a rocker tick.

That's just my opinion - in may be worthless.

Gnarls.
I would have to agree, it's a battle I'll never win. I've always wondered how these things sounded when new, no way Toyota would've sold a truck with a ticking motor, I wonder what they set the clearance at from factory? Can't be the 0.008 and 0.012

I've been setting mine to 0.007 and 0.011 COLD, which is NOT what Toyota said. I've read that Marlin recommended as small as 0.006 and 0.010 to make them quieter. Always seems to be the back two intake valves.

As far as the fuel pump, I know they can make a noise, mine is silent. Chain is good too, checked today.

As always, thanks for your opinion! You've done a bunch to help me with questions and I really appreciate it.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #324 on: Feb 13, 2019, 07:12:10 PM »
I would have to agree, it's a battle I'll never win. I've always wondered how these things sounded when new, no way Toyota would've sold a truck with a ticking motor, I wonder what they set the clearance at from factory? Can't be the 0.008 and 0.012

I've been setting mine to 0.007 and 0.011 COLD, which is NOT what Toyota said. I've read that Marlin recommended as small as 0.006 and 0.010 to make them quieter. Always seems to be the back two intake valves.

As far as the fuel pump, I know they can make a noise, mine is silent. Chain is good too, checked today.

As always, thanks for your opinion! You've done a bunch to help me with questions and I really appreciate it.

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Hi T...

I would definitely try setting the lash with the engine warmed to normal running temp. 

I spent many hours with my 22R and the valve lash adjustments!  A tighter lash will make the cam look bigger, it will increase the HP at the higher RPM range.  A looser adjustment will make a little rocker tick and will increase torque number at the lower RPM range.

I don't really know what the factory valve lash adjustment was on my first 1986 22RE when I drove it off the dealer lot, but, I agree the rocker tick was not very noticeable.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #325 on: Feb 13, 2019, 07:41:26 PM »
I would have to agree, it's a battle I'll never win. I've always wondered how these things sounded when new, no way Toyota would've sold a truck with a ticking motor, I wonder what they set the clearance at from factory? Can't be the 0.008 and 0.012

I've been setting mine to 0.007 and 0.011 COLD, which is NOT what Toyota said. I've read that Marlin recommended as small as 0.006 and 0.010 to make them quieter. Always seems to be the back two intake valves.

As far as the fuel pump, I know they can make a noise, mine is silent. Chain is good too, checked today.

As always, thanks for your opinion! You've done a bunch to help me with questions and I really appreciate it.

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22re vehicles left with a bit of an engine tick all the time. It's a solid cam lift design. Valve train noise is normal
And required in order for there to be sufficient lash. The most common thing I have seen is people over tightening the 4 valve cover bolts. This will pull up on the rocker shaft assembly causing the valve clearance to increase and the valve tick to increase beyond acceptable levels.  :twocents: from an old Chevron employee
Pull up a couple videos of any old time v8 equipped with a solid lifter cam and you will hear the same type of noise.
I caution all of you on adjusting the valves beyond 7 and 11.
http://www.lcengineering.com/LCTechPages/ValveAdjustment.html
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #326 on: Feb 13, 2019, 07:49:51 PM »
22re vehicles left with a bit of an engine tick all the time. It's a solid cam lift design. Valve train noise is normal
And required in order for there to be sufficient lash. The most common thing I have seen is people over tightening the 4 valve cover bolts. This will pull up on the rocker shaft assembly causing the valve clearance to increase and the valve tick to increase beyond acceptable levels.  :twocents: from an old Chevron employee
Pull up a couple videos of any old time v8 equipped with a solid lifter cam and you will hear the same type of noise.
I caution all of you on adjusting the valves beyond 7 and 11.
http://www.lcengineering.com/LCTechPages/ValveAdjustment.html
Thanks for the advice. I always break out my 1/4" drive torque wrench to get the acorn nuts just right.
Next time around, I'll adjust them to 0.008 and 0.012 Warm and see what it gets me.

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #327 on: Feb 14, 2019, 04:50:20 AM »

Hey T...

I'm curious to read about what your warm engine valve lash adjustment and rocker noise sounds like? ???

Gnarls.  :gap:
« Last Edit: Feb 15, 2019, 03:10:42 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #328 on: Feb 16, 2019, 11:21:41 AM »
Hey T...

I'm curious to read about what your warm engine valve lash adjustment and rocker noise sounds like? ???

Gnarls.  :gap:
Haven't adjusted it yet, it's fine right now. Sometimes it'll tick more and then it stops. Kinda like a bipolar teenager.


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Re: Toybrota's 22R build
« Reply #329 on: Feb 16, 2019, 11:24:29 AM »
Pulled this vacuum cap off for the hell of it today, and there was a bit of fuel. This goes to a charcoal canister, and is supposedly a vapor vent. Is it bad if there's a bit of fuel that came out? Since it is a vapor vent, I can't see why it wouldn't be abnormal.
The truck occasionally will be a bit tricky to start after it's been running and it sets for 5 min, almost like it floods a tad. No big deal, always starts and runs normal.

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