Author Topic: Need suspension advice  (Read 3511 times)

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andykrow

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Need suspension advice
« on: Jun 05, 2017, 11:20:44 AM »
So, I have decided I need a new lift on my baby. It's currently on 6" Alcans with pretty good size shackles that are closer to vertical than I want, so it's a bit tall and stiff. That and the springs are orbit eyes which have more sway than I want.

I am running 35's and the frame currently sits 27.5" off the ground. This truck is not just for rock crawling, I do a lot of expedition style trips with 4 people and a lot of water and extra gas, so it can get pretty heavy. I also need a decent amount of uptravel, at least 5" on the shock, as this truck sees a lot of hauling ass on dirt roads. If I can get it to drop down an inch overall that would be great, although I am not interested in cutting up the body and frame to accomplish this. If it stays at the same height that is okay. I really do not want to be riding on the bumpstops when it is loaded down.

I am currently looking at getting a low profile front spring hanger, TG 4" front and 5" rear springs, and 5" shackles all around. I can get a deal on TG springs so please, no advice to get Allpro's, haha. Also, not interested in RUF/63's. I don't want to spend a year fiddling with spring packs, my time is precious ;)

Can anyone comment on the height and/or ride with that setup? I almost think I could go with 3" in the front, but the TG 4" is softer and longer.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

txlonghorn

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #1 on: Jun 05, 2017, 02:33:35 PM »
Wow you're sitting tall on those springs. You mentioned you have long shackles.. instead of buying new springs and welding a new hanger, etc., why not just go to a shorter shackle (well also be less vertical and give you a lower effective spring rate)? You'll drop in height half the difference in shackle length. You can also remove one leaf from your packs to lower your spring rate (call Alcan for their rec as to which leaf if you can't figure it out). 5" of up travel isn't going to happen with a very low lift spring pack. The TG packs sit much higher than advertised.

andykrow [OP]

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #2 on: Jun 05, 2017, 04:12:08 PM »
Yeah I know the TG sits higher than they say. But, I am right down the street from Addicted Offroad and they took a look and thought the 4/5" TG combo would put me where I want to be. I don't need to be much shorter, maybe an inch. But yeah I don't want to lose up travel, nor do I want to do major rear fender work. So there isn't much room to get shorter.

Part of the issue here is that I have the orbit eye springs with the orbit part drilled out and a MONSTER bushing taking up it's place. So no matter what I do, those huge bushings are just going to give me a crappy ride. I thought about shorter shackles but the front is already at 5. I could go to 4 I guess.

New bushings (which I need) and new shackles would put me around $400 (the big bushings are stupid expensive..)

After I sell the alcans I would have about that much into springs and hangers. Plus something that would ride much tighter.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

blackdiamond

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #3 on: Jun 05, 2017, 07:51:08 PM »
Why not get another set of Alcans without obit eyes?  I don't see TG stacking up against your Alcans.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

andykrow [OP]

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #4 on: Jun 05, 2017, 09:34:49 PM »
Yeah, I asked about that. I tuned out after Alcan said $800 something for the front springs alone. I think it was 600 or so for the rears but I wasn't really listening at that point, haha. Plus I would still have to redo the hangers. Too spendy for my blood.

What springs are you running?
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

blackdiamond

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #5 on: Jun 06, 2017, 04:52:20 AM »
Yeah, I asked about that. I tuned out after Alcan said $800 something for the front springs alone. I think it was 600 or so for the rears but I wasn't really listening at that point, haha. Plus I would still have to redo the hangers. Too spendy for my blood.

What springs are you running?

I run Alcan.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

Willard

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #6 on: Jun 06, 2017, 05:46:12 AM »
Why not get another set of Alcans without obit eyes?  I don't see TG stacking up against your Alcans.
I have wheeled with quite a few rigs with TG springs and as much as you guys hate to hear it.. :reg:..they actually work very well. They flex pretty decent too.
90'4runner......lots of goodies.

63W

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #7 on: Jun 06, 2017, 06:06:06 AM »
I run 4" tg front spring and 63 chevys in the rear. Hate the front love the rear. The tg springs are really tall, I will be putting Alcan springs in the front when I get around to it.


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blackdiamond

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #8 on: Jun 06, 2017, 06:51:31 AM »
I have wheeled with quite a few rigs with TG springs and as much as you guys hate to hear it.. :reg:..they actually work very well. They flex pretty decent too.

I am not objecting because they are TG. I never cared for the All Pro, Marlin, or TG spring options compared to Alcan. Just my opinion and the vote I made with my wallet for my 4Runner.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

andykrow [OP]

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #9 on: Jun 06, 2017, 07:41:28 AM »
I run 4" tg front spring and 63 chevys in the rear. Hate the front love the rear. The tg springs are really tall, I will be putting Alcan springs in the front when I get around to
Are your TG springs the HD version? Did you use a low profile front hanger? What year is your frame?
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

63W

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #10 on: Jun 06, 2017, 08:15:54 AM »
Are your TG springs the HD version? Did you use a low profile front hanger? What year is your frame?

Non HD springs and there standard hanger. The frame is  an 88

Willard

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #11 on: Jun 06, 2017, 08:59:10 AM »
I am not objecting because they are TG. I never cared for the All Pro, Marlin, or TG spring options compared to Alcan. Just my opinion and the vote I made with my wallet for my 4Runner.
Here is RUF OME and AP rears. To date I have not ran a better set up and I have tried out a few different springs. I really like the 63" option, but don't like the length and hang up. Keep in mind I'm on 40" tires and my rear shocks are maxed out in length. Will be changing over to 14" soon. The AP rears are very hard to beat. If I had the extra cash I would buy sky's springs over any other spring on the market, but I am really happy with the OME RUF with the AP rears right now. Great rod manners and a lot of travel for leafs.


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90'4runner......lots of goodies.

andykrow [OP]

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #12 on: Jun 06, 2017, 09:17:14 AM »
Non HD springs and there standard hanger. The frame is  an 88

How much too high would you say you are? Are you happy with the ride? How is your shackle angle? I plan on using a low profile hanger, and since my frame is an 85 i should be netting less lift than your frame. Front frame cross member on an 85 is 1.5" or so higher off the ground, iirc.

Here is RUF OME and AP rears. To date I have not ran a better set up and I have tried out a few different springs. I really like the 63" option, but don't like the length and hang up. Keep in mind I'm on 40" tires and my rear shocks are maxed out in length. Will be changing over to 14" soon. The AP rears are very hard to beat. If I had the extra cash I would buy sky's springs over any other spring on the market, but I am really happy with the OME RUF with the AP rears right now. Great rod manners and a lot of travel for leafs.

Those Sky's are pretty spendy. I am mostly looking at TG here because I can get an awesome deal on them. I am wondering if people who say they ride like crap have them installed correctly? The 63's are interesting but I'm with you on length being an issue I don't want to deal with. Plus I need some load carrying ability and that just seems like more trouble than it's worth with those springs.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

andykrow [OP]

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #13 on: Jun 06, 2017, 09:34:21 AM »
The tg springs are really tall

I hate to be a bother, but if you have a chance can you post a pic of a side shot of your rig so I can see what your front end looks like? Thanks!
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

63W

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #14 on: Jun 06, 2017, 01:47:11 PM »
How much too high would you say you are? Are you happy with the ride? How is your shackle angle? I plan on using a low profile hanger, and since my frame is an 85 i should be netting less lift than your frame. Front frame cross member on an 85 is 1.5" or so higher off the ground, iirc.
I would like to get a couple inches lower had to put a overload in the 63's to even it out. I have thought about changing to a low profile front hanger, just haven't messed with it yet.

63W

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #15 on: Jun 06, 2017, 01:48:06 PM »
I hate to be a bother, but if you have a chance can you post a pic of a side shot of your rig so I can see what your front end looks like? Thanks!

I don't have any pictures right now

andykrow [OP]

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #16 on: Jun 06, 2017, 03:13:01 PM »
I don't have any pictures right now

No worries. Sounds like a low pro hanger and these TG 4" are right around where I want to be.

Now looking at Davez as a possibility as well for the front. I think I would stick to TG in the rear instead of the 63.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

63W

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #17 on: Jun 06, 2017, 03:16:16 PM »
Sounds like a good plan


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63W

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #18 on: Jun 06, 2017, 03:24:23 PM »


Dug threw some old pics, had to go back a couple years to find one. This is the best side shot I have.

andykrow [OP]

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #19 on: Jun 06, 2017, 03:33:31 PM »
I think I'm higher than that right now, haha. That's not bad. 35's right?
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

63W

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #20 on: Jun 06, 2017, 04:54:20 PM »
I think I'm higher than that right now, haha. That's not bad. 35's right?

Yes 35". That may be from when I was messing around and took a couple leafs out the front though. Looks lower than it is now with the full pack back in.

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #21 on: Jun 07, 2017, 11:11:35 AM »
I swapped over to some shorter shackles a few years back to drop my ride a bit, like 4" or so, and the truck actually flexes better.  Sometimes just small tweaks...
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andykrow [OP]

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #22 on: Jun 08, 2017, 12:20:03 PM »
Well, turns out I have some 86 4runner rear springs laying around so I figure I should give RUFs a shot before I spend money on this thing.

Can anyone confirm that they use a 9/16 (or 14mm) bolt on the front eyelet, and 18mm bolts for the shackle end?

Can anyone with a 84 or 85 frame using RUFs confirm the distance between the frame tube and the front eyelet? Trying to see if my Alcan perches are in the right spot.

Thanks!!!
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

txlonghorn

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #23 on: Jun 08, 2017, 05:17:32 PM »
You're likely going to have problems with a RUF pack if you were serious about having 5" of up travel. Also.. maybe issues keeping your existing shocks designed for a 6" lift. RUF packs sit low unless you use a rear pack like the OME rears that are designed for a small lift. I have the CS009r packs up front for reference. My center to center mount linear distance is 47.6". You'll likely find distances vary by an inch or so depending on how folks set them up.

andykrow [OP]

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Re: Need suspension advice
« Reply #24 on: Jun 08, 2017, 10:13:54 PM »
Thanks for the info! I am willing to steal some leaves out of the alcans to give the ruf's a bit more lift. I think I have a couple other sources for leaves as well so I'm pretty sure if I go this route I can build a pack that I like.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

 
 
 
 
 

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