Author Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild  (Read 188328 times)

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OVRAROK

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #660 on: Mar 30, 2017, 01:53:23 PM »
Time to pull the harness
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #661 on: Mar 30, 2017, 01:57:38 PM »
Question, did you purchase vehicle with bad motor, or where you driving this when motor went bad ?
Even the most primitive society, has an intimate respect for the insane.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #662 on: Mar 30, 2017, 02:00:43 PM »
Time to pull the harness

I think so too... but I have to work myself up to it... now I'm starting to feel my frustration level go high.

I just hate to undo all that careful installation job I did on the chamber and T-body!

I took the truck for very short test run, hoping by some miracle that the injector would miraculously start working!! ... sadly I had to park it back in the garage with it still running on 3 cylinders... AND on top of that.... crap... the gas gauge quit working!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have faint visions of a new Tacoma or Tundra in my future.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #663 on: Mar 30, 2017, 02:05:29 PM »
Question, did you purchase vehicle with bad motor, or where you driving this when motor went bad ?

The engine was OK when I bought the truck in 2006.  I blew the engine in January of 2013 when I ran it out coolant, not knowing the water pump failed.  There was no coolant leak the morning I took off for Tucson.  The water pump shaft seal must have had a catastrophic failure about 45 minutes down the freeway.  There was a noise but I thought it was the idler pulley.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #664 on: Mar 30, 2017, 02:26:05 PM »
Carb. ;)
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Steve McQueen

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #665 on: Mar 30, 2017, 03:13:13 PM »
Is it wrong for Me to enjoy the blind leading the blind.  :rofl2:
Here is some advice. Go back to basics, what does it take to fire a cylinder?
We have been over this before.
#1
#2
#3
#4
Fill in the blanks.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Gillesdetrail

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #666 on: Mar 30, 2017, 03:34:26 PM »
Are you running platinums or coppers?

Swap the injector number 1 to injector number 3 or 4 to eliminate or isolate injector problem.
If nothing changes, swap injector plug 1 and 2 if possible.
If nothing changes between the injector swap, I would swap spark plugs between 2 cylinders and if nothing, then wires (would be an unlikely problem after all the spark tests you have made, but is quick and worth doing still to completely eliminate the spark plug or the wire as being the issue)

Don't remove the harness before you have isolated it to be the problem, you'll come out a better mecanic and knowing your truck even more once you've found and fixed the problem.


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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #667 on: Mar 30, 2017, 03:57:24 PM »
I have an extra 22R intake manifold.  Just sayin'.
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #668 on: Mar 30, 2017, 04:36:10 PM »
When you set your valves, What method did You use?
Do You have a small green propain bottle?
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

emsvitil

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #669 on: Mar 30, 2017, 05:09:25 PM »

Do You have a small green propain bottle?

I don't know about you, but I use anti-pain bottles..........

 :cheese:
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #670 on: Mar 30, 2017, 05:59:55 PM »
I don't know about you, but I use anti-pain bottles..........

 :cheese:
If He has a propain bottle and a torch adapter I can show Him an amazing diagnostic trick. also a long piece of correctly sized hose
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

OVRAROK

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #671 on: Mar 30, 2017, 06:25:47 PM »
Is it wrong for Me to enjoy the blind leading the blind.  :rofl2:
Here is some advice. Go back to basics, what does it take to fire a cylinder?
We have been over this before.
#1
#2
#3
#4
Fill in the blanks.

Push
squeeze
bang
blow
Even the most primitive society, has an intimate respect for the insane.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #672 on: Mar 30, 2017, 06:27:00 PM »
Push
squeeze
bang
blow
To simple. Good Try
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #673 on: Mar 30, 2017, 06:41:05 PM »
Are you running platinums or coppers?

Swap the injector number 1 to injector number 3 or 4 to eliminate or isolate injector problem.
If nothing changes, swap injector plug 1 and 2 if possible.
If nothing changes between the injector swap, I would swap spark plugs between 2 cylinders and if nothing, then wires (would be an unlikely problem after all the spark tests you have made, but is quick and worth doing still to completely eliminate the spark plug or the wire as being the issue)

Don't remove the harness before you have isolated it to be the problem, you'll come out a better mecanic and knowing your truck even more once you've found and fixed the problem.



I had installed a new set of platinums when I first tried to fire the engine.  I replaced them with a new set of NGK OEM replacements.

Yeah, I understand the idea of swapping to test, but each time I swap, I will have to remove and re-install the chamber, throttle body, fuel rail, and 2 1/2 pages of parts, hose, and connectors!

If I am going to remove the chamber and t-body to get at the injectors, I will test them and the connectors and then, if necessary, open up the wire harness loom.

I suspect that the injector is plugged, partially plugged, or just not firing.

The spark plug is getting spark and there is sufficient cylinder compression to fire an adequate mixture.

Gnarls.

« Last Edit: Mar 30, 2017, 06:56:21 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #674 on: Mar 30, 2017, 06:55:10 PM »
When you set your valves, What method did You use?
Do You have a small green propain bottle?

Set the valve lash?  I used the FSM method, with a feeler gauge.

Yes, I have a green propane bottle and torch adapter.  Is your "trick" the one used for finding a vacuum leak?

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #675 on: Mar 30, 2017, 07:01:41 PM »
I have an extra 22R intake manifold.  Just sayin'.

I may be converting to a carb'd engine!  Let me know if you need to sell it. .... just think'n.  :driving:

Gnarls.  :gap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #676 on: Mar 30, 2017, 07:05:16 PM »
Possible causes for Your Issue based on Your testing.
Flat cam (I hope its not and EB cam,  :shake:)
Valves on that cyl. Leaking or to tight.
Vacuum leak to that cyl. (To much air will also put out the fire)
Plugged intake port (a Rag  :qtip:)
Or a bad Injector (You can pick the reason)

Have You checked the resistance value of the injector? Easy test
If Your interested I can show You how to make a cheap tool that will allow you to run the engine off of propain for testing purposes. All you have to do is ask. It works great I do it all the time when Diaging a failed injector.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

:)bestgen4runner

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #677 on: Mar 30, 2017, 07:08:17 PM »
Set the valve lash?  I used the FSM method, with a feeler gauge.

Yes, I have a green propane bottle and torch adapter.  Is your "trick" the one used for finding a vacuum leak?

Gnarls.
I suspect You bought an engine Builder cam Didn't You.
Try adjusting all the valves again making sure each valve is adjusted when you are on the back side of the cam lobe. This exact same thing happended to me and is why I will never use a crap EB cam again.
poor cam grind is likely your problem. If you adjust it on the back side of each lobe it will run on all 4 cyl.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #678 on: Mar 30, 2017, 07:28:12 PM »
I suspect You bought an engine Builder cam Didn't You.
Try adjusting all the valves again making sure each valve is adjusted when you are on the back side of the cam lobe. This exact same thing happended to me and is why I will never use a crap EB cam again.
poor cam grind is likely your problem. If you adjust it on the back side of each lobe it will run on all 4 cyl.

It is funny you should mention the camshaft.. .because I didn't like the fact that the lobes seemed to be off from the rockers.  And for some reason I kept thinking this mis-fire had something to do with the head or the valves.... as I have mentioned. If it is a "defective" camshaft, I will be very surprised.  I would have to have a very serious conversation with Tod at engbldr.

Thank you for your input.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #679 on: Mar 30, 2017, 07:34:07 PM »
... Try adjusting all the valves again making sure each valve is adjusted when you are on the back side of the cam lobe.

So I should rotate the crank pulley to each valve to be adjusted, then rotate the crank further so the rocker is sitting how far down on the back side, off the nose, of just number one cylinder?

Gnarls.



« Last Edit: Mar 30, 2017, 07:52:46 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #680 on: Mar 30, 2017, 07:38:33 PM »
I won't be able to re-adjust the valve lash until tomorrow afternoon.

Adjusting the valve lash on the back side of the lobe, which will be lower on the nose. That adjustment will effectively tighten the valve lash, which will push the intake valve open sooner and extend the top of the valve into the chamber.  I am concerned that it could push the valve into the top of the piston.

Before I do this, I will need to have a conversation a few people who are smarter than me.
 
Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Mar 30, 2017, 07:51:41 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #681 on: Mar 30, 2017, 08:00:21 PM »
I suspect You bought an engine Builder cam Didn't You.
Try adjusting all the valves again making sure each valve is adjusted when you are on the back side of the cam lobe. This exact same thing happended to me and is why I will never use a crap EB cam again.
poor cam grind is likely your problem. If you adjust it on the back side of each lobe it will run on all 4 cyl.

Please define "back side of the cam lobe"

Thanks,

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #682 on: Mar 30, 2017, 08:03:00 PM »
Adjust the valve lash with each cylinder at TDC compression stroke.
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #683 on: Mar 30, 2017, 08:09:11 PM »
Adjust the valve lash with each cylinder at TDC compression stroke.


Are you sure???   :willynilly:

Gnarls.  :headscratch:

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #684 on: Mar 30, 2017, 08:12:07 PM »
Yep,   that's when the spark goes off..........
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #685 on: Mar 30, 2017, 08:54:17 PM »
Man oh man.
There is a peak to the lobe (the tallest part)
You should be adjusting each valve on the back side (the complete opposite of the peak)
This is how it's been done for years.
??? You honestly still don't trust Me ???
I'm hurt.
The cam grinds that I have received from EB have bin imprecise. The last engine I built for a customer 22re had a dead
Miss on cyl ? Hell I think it could have been #1
I found that if I readjusted the valves loose it would fire that cyl.
I put a dial indicator on the lobe and it would start to open a small amount then close then open again. This was caused by a horribly shaped lobe.
I love EB and have tremendous respect for what they do and the parts they sell.
I have two exceptions. The Cam shafts (poor quality) and the gaskets (especially the notebook paper thin timing cover gaskets)
Best of luck gnarls
It's all going to work out.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Snowtoy

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #686 on: Mar 30, 2017, 09:35:26 PM »
I had installed a new set of platinums when I first tried to fire the engine.  I replaced them with a new set of NGK OEM replacements.

Yeah, I understand the idea of swapping to test, but each time I swap, I will have to remove and re-install the chamber, throttle body, fuel rail, and 2 1/2 pages of parts, hose, and connectors!

I suspect that the injector is plugged, partially plugged, or just not firing.
Gnarls.

You should only have to remove the rad hose and possibly the t-stat housing to reach the #1 injector, you should then be able to test the wiring harness and the resistance of the injector w/o having to disassemble anything else.
'90 black X-cab mod'd 3.0, 33's/4.88's, rear ARB, custom bumpers, sliders, safari rack, etc.
'91 Blue X-cab 22re, 35's/5.29's,Truetrac front, ARB rear, dual cases, and custom Safari flatbed, bumper, interior.
The money pit '87 Supra resto/mod

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #687 on: Mar 31, 2017, 02:26:53 AM »
Man oh man.... You should be adjusting each valve on the back side (the complete opposite of the peak)
This is how it's been done for years.


 :haha:  :)bestgen4runner

Holy crapity!!  That's why my engines have always ran like a raped-ape!!!!  :yikes:

Gnarls.  :willynilly:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #688 on: Mar 31, 2017, 02:29:37 AM »
You should only have to remove the rad hose and possibly the t-stat housing to reach the #1 injector, you should then be able to test the wiring harness and the resistance of the injector w/o having to disassemble anything else.

Hey Snowtoy,

Yeah... I figured I could get to number #1 that way.

I appreciate the input.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #689 on: Mar 31, 2017, 02:34:38 AM »

??? You honestly still don't trust Me ???... I'm hurt.


Don't be hurt, Grasshopper  :therethere: ... I don't trust anyone  :shake:... and only barely trust MYSELF  :gap:.... and when I do trust myself.. it's "trust but verify".  :thumbs:

Gnarls.  :clap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

 
 
 
 
 

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