Author Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild  (Read 178561 times)

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H8PVMNT

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #630 on: Mar 29, 2017, 07:02:48 AM »
1 3 4 2
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #631 on: Mar 29, 2017, 08:52:04 AM »
1 3 4 2

I know what the firing order is.  I can't find it in my 1986 FSM!!  It must be there somewhere, right?  :gap:

Gnarls. :inthedark:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #632 on: Mar 29, 2017, 10:08:29 AM »
http://www.offroadforum.cz/toyota/aarc.epnet.com/application/8578/8578R02_FIRING_ORDER.html

at the second diagram.

I'm trying to remember if when my block was at tdc if the dot between the bright links was at 11:30 or 12:30, but I can't remember. Do you have a timing light?

edit: it was 11:30, and this might be useful:
https://www.yotatech.com/f116/installing-timing-chain-cant-line-up-marks-216514/#post51505200
« Last Edit: Mar 29, 2017, 10:15:58 AM by Gillesdetrail »

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #633 on: Mar 29, 2017, 10:11:56 AM »
OK you were starting to scare me :).
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #634 on: Mar 29, 2017, 10:56:50 AM »
I know what the firing order is.  I can't find it in my 1986 FSM!!  It must be there somewhere, right?  :gap:

Gnarls. :inthedark:

In my 88 FSM. If you go to section A2 in service specification, it in maintenance "engine"
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #635 on: Mar 29, 2017, 10:59:28 AM »


Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #636 on: Mar 29, 2017, 12:40:00 PM »
Once it starts, pull the wire off the cold start injector........

If for some reason the cold start injector is staying on, it may be only causing #1 to be too rich.
Ed
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #637 on: Mar 29, 2017, 12:43:54 PM »
Have you moved the injectors and/or the injector harness around?

I believe the ECU 'grounds' the injector so it fires.     A shorted wire may be keeping injector on.
Ed
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22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #638 on: Mar 29, 2017, 01:15:18 PM »
Once it starts, pull the wire off the cold start injector........

If for some reason the cold start injector is staying on, it may be only causing #1 to be too rich.

Hmmmm... OK, I can try that.

Thanks,

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #639 on: Mar 29, 2017, 01:16:20 PM »
Have you moved the injectors and/or the injector harness around?

I believe the ECU 'grounds' the injector so it fires.     A shorted wire may be keeping injector on.

I have only moved the harness while removing the engine and re-installing it.

Since installing the injectors while it was still on the engine stand, I have not moved the injectors.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Mar 29, 2017, 07:54:24 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #640 on: Mar 29, 2017, 01:18:35 PM »


Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk



Geezz.... I looked for that firing order for 20 minutes and could NOT find it in my FSM!!!!

Thanks,

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #641 on: Mar 29, 2017, 01:19:28 PM »
OK you were starting to scare me :).

I am scaring MYSELF!!

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #642 on: Mar 29, 2017, 07:37:00 PM »
UPDATE 3-29-17 PM


Surprisingly, even only firing on 3 cylinders, the engine started right up and idled immediately. :thumbs:

Well… my gut feeling is correct…  I checked the spark.  All 4 spark plugs are getting spark.  :yesnod:

So, if the cylinder is getting spark, and it won’t fire the charge, then it seems logical it’s a fuel issue – too much or too little.  If not that, then it would seem to be lack of sufficient compression to fire the AF charge? If the compression is very low in #1 cylinder, I cannot see how it could be the piston and rings.  The only other cause would be the valves are not fully seating during the compression stroke?  Since the valve lash is per cam spec, what could it be?... missing valve stem seals?  :-\   :dunno:

What else would keep the chamber from firing?  :dunno:

Can it be an ignition timing issue?... I don’t think so.   :dunno:

Tomorrow morning I will do a compression check.  Then, I assume my next step is to get into the wire harness and the injector connectors and injectors.  :tantrum:

I did finally find the page in my FSM where they hide the firing order! … back of the book under Service Specifications Maintenance page A-2 in the Engine section.  So why the heck isn’t it in the distributor and ignition sections or ANY other place in the diagnose sections!!  :thumbdown:

Gnarls. :inthedark:
« Last Edit: Mar 30, 2017, 06:01:48 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #643 on: Mar 29, 2017, 07:56:05 PM »
Have you tried swapping plug wire
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #644 on: Mar 29, 2017, 07:57:27 PM »
In my 88 FSM. If you go to section A2 in service specification, it in maintenance "engine"

Yep... that's where it is!!

I missed it.... I need to have my eyes checked and new prescription for increased magnification!  :cheese:

Thanks,

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #645 on: Mar 29, 2017, 07:59:21 PM »
Have you tried swapping plug wire

Do you mean swapping as in try a new set?  Yes.  But... they are getting spark to the spark plugs.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #646 on: Mar 29, 2017, 08:13:25 PM »
If I get into the wire harness, I would like to replace the damaged fuel injector connectors.

Has anyone done that with these?

https://www.delcity.net/store/Fuel-Injector-Connector/p_797788.h_797789.r_IF1003?mkwid=sf70lnH5S&crid=38094426869&mp_kw=&mp_mt=&gclid=CIac1rig_dICFciEfgodChYBwg

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #647 on: Mar 29, 2017, 08:39:20 PM »
I had time to do more research. It looks like there is likely a problem in my wire harness and I will need to open it up and see what it looks like at the injector wire ground wires.

I will see if I can buy a noid light for these injectors.  Anyone have a source?

Chasing electrical ghosts in a 31 year old wire harness is almost as much fun as an enema.  :disturbed:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #648 on: Mar 30, 2017, 07:08:21 AM »

Not to be negative or take a crapity attitude about my 22RE, but to simply share my thoughts and experience as I go through this rebuild project…  after doing more research into the wire harness issues in these early 22RE engines, hopefully I will not see myself struggling with continuing problems with the wire harness and connectors.

Even if my problem is not harness, wires, or connector related, my research has raised questions and concerns about this engine and its reliability after a quality rebuild.

So, far I have not found a source for anything but used harnesses, and those are for specific year and model of the vehicle.

Before I started this rebuild, if I had known of the potential, and apparently not uncommon, failure issues with 20 to 30 year old wire harnesses, I would have seriously considered converting this engine to a carb’d 22R engine.

Its “Toyota-quality-like” to see a 1986 Toyota 4X4 with a 22RE engine go 30 years with no problems with the engine wiring.  BUT… the problems seem to rear their ugly heads when the harness is disturbed while doing a rebuild, parts replacement, testing, or just basic maintenance.

Even if a brand new wire harness was available and for a price that wouldn’t cause a TIA, the idea of removing and replacing that harness would be a nightmare for me.

That’s just my opinion – it may be worthless.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #649 on: Mar 30, 2017, 07:17:56 AM »
Carb.  ;)
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #650 on: Mar 30, 2017, 07:23:47 AM »
The FSM and a volt ohm meter will be your friend. 
Miss ya Dean (4THEWKN) & Kyle (KYOTA)!!

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #651 on: Mar 30, 2017, 09:18:30 AM »
UPDATE 3-30 AM

I have isolated the mis-fire to cylinder #1.  Using my engine stethoscope, each injector sounds the same, so I assume all 4 are at least firing.

With the engine idling, when pulled each plug wire off the spark plug, #1 had no affect, on numbers 2, 3, and 4 the engine idle dropped immediately.  Number 2, 3, and cylinders are firing.  So… it appears that number one cylinder is getting plenty of spark and some fuel.

Why else would it not fire?

I’m going to do a compression check now.

I’m getting more bummed out about this mystery.  :smack:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #652 on: Mar 30, 2017, 10:13:25 AM »
UPDATE  3-30 10am

Compression check showed between 149 and 150 lbs on my gauge for each cylinder.

So, its not a compression issue causing the #1 cylinder NOT to fire.

I have to believe its the injector or injector wiring or injector connector.

The stethoscope probe sound was the same for each injector?

As you can see on the spark plugs – 4, 3, 2, and 1 in that order, from left to right, #1 cylinder is not igniting the mixture – whatever it is or is NOT.

Does anyone have any ideas  for what else I might look at or test?

I can start opening up the wire harness and look at the wires and any solder connections for the #1 injector?

Thanks,

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Mar 30, 2017, 02:16:47 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #653 on: Mar 30, 2017, 11:13:24 AM »
whats the gap setting on the #1 plug?  i know you are getting spark at the sparkplug wire.
screw in another plug and plug the wire on the plug in question--ground it out and see if the
plug actually has a spark. you say it has a gas smell on the plug and is kinda wet looking
so i'm not sure how it's getting gas into the chamber if the injector is not firing.
i hope you get it figured out--- it's past time to have that thing on the trail.
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #654 on: Mar 30, 2017, 11:45:44 AM »
whats the gap setting on the #1 plug?  i know you are getting spark at the sparkplug wire.
screw in another plug and plug the wire on the plug in question--ground it out and see if the
plug actually has a spark. you say it has a gas smell on the plug and is kinda wet looking
so i'm not sure how it's getting gas into the chamber if the injector is not firing.
i hope you get it figured out--- it's past time to have that thing on the trail.


What are the odd of getting a nonfunctional spark plug?
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #655 on: Mar 30, 2017, 12:07:30 PM »
Regardless of odds, only takes 3 min to eliminate the plug being bad.  :eyebrow:
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #656 on: Mar 30, 2017, 12:59:33 PM »
Regardless of odds, only takes 3 min to eliminate the plug being bad.  :eyebrow:

I fully agree. Has anybody ever had a plug not work?  It has to have happened before...
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #657 on: Mar 30, 2017, 01:46:38 PM »
whats the gap setting on the #1 plug?  i know you are getting spark at the sparkplug wire.
screw in another plug and plug the wire on the plug in question--ground it out and see if the
plug actually has a spark. you say it has a gas smell on the plug and is kinda wet looking
so i'm not sure how it's getting gas into the chamber if the injector is not firing.
i hope you get it figured out--- it's past time to have that thing on the trail.


Hey Dawtoy,

Yeah... the first thing I did was check spark.

The gap on all the plugs are .030".  I had the new platinums at .032".

I don't know if the #1 spark plug is firing "inside" the cylinder, but it sure has plenty of spark outside.

I appreciate all input on what this "no fire" may be caused from. 

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #658 on: Mar 30, 2017, 01:51:07 PM »
I fully agree. Has anybody ever had a plug not work?  It has to have happened before...

In all my years I have never experienced a bad spark plug out the box.  And I have never had one fail... only "worn out" due to the electrodes were burned from mileage.  I have had spark plug wires go bad... the ones that are NOT wire core.

For this mis-fire, I tried two sets of different cap & rotor and different spark plugs, and different spark plug wires.

It's gett'n SPARK!

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Mar 30, 2017, 02:09:20 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #659 on: Mar 30, 2017, 01:53:15 PM »
Regardless of odds, only takes 3 min to eliminate the plug being bad.  :eyebrow:

Yes, and since I put in a brand new set before attempting to fire the engine for the first time, I immediately put on another different set.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

 
 
 
 
 

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