Author Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild  (Read 172660 times)

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Gnarly4X

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Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« on: Jul 01, 2016, 07:07:57 PM »
OK, I'll start an engine rebuild post. 

VEHICLE
My 1986 SR5 Xtra Cab, 5-speed, 22RE has been garaged for about 3 years and 6 months since I ran it out of coolant. It was not leaking any coolant when I took for work that morning. It overheated and stalled on the freeway. It was 19 degrees that morning, January 2013. I got it towed home, backed it into the garage with the starter and bought new car.

I don’t know for sure how many actual miles are on this truck or engine.

MACHINE SHOP
The machine shop stripped, thermal cleaned, and magnafluxed the block for cracks & measeire bores. It only needed a .020” bore, and decked .006”, rods-crank-flywheel-pressure plate were balanced.  The rod bushings were OK, and they only had to polish the crankshaft.  I had them check clearances - rod clearance .0016 to .0018 - Main bearing clearance .0018 to .020 - because I didn’t want to mess with plastigauge measurements.

PURCHASES
I bought engbldr’s RV Oversized Valves head with a 261C cam installed, and the Master Rebuild Kit, new head bolts.  I have purchased new parts from Toyota (BVSV, thermo sensor, metal coolant pipe to radiator).  I had the injectors rebuilt, tested, and balanced at WitchHunter.

I will be installing a new copper radiator, hoses, t-stat, and Doug Thorley Header.

I have cleaned and painted just about everything to go back onto the engine with rattle can VHT engine enamel.

CURRENT STATUS
Right now it’s on the engine stand with the head torqued to 65 lbs, oil pick up, rear main seal, and little 5-bolt head rear cover installed.

*RANT MODE ON*
Today I’m am frustrated and want to some cheese with my whine!!... so pardon me while I vent a little.

First, in all the years that I’ve read posts and detailed threads on rebuilding a 22, I’ve never found a list of the start-to-finish step by step process - like a "Rebuild Your 22RE For DUMMIES" cheat sheet.  My Toyota factory manual sucks!  It jumps around so much on the procedures that it gets confusing on which steps are next!

Secondly… Now today… I find that the number 3 rockers are not sitting on the new 261C cam lobes correctly.  They are off about .050”.  I’ll post some photos.  The rockers are tight, so it’s not the rockers.  I think it’s the lobes on the camshaft are misaligned during casting?  I will call Tod at engbldr on Monday morning and see what he says.

And thirdly… I’m really disappointed in what is missing in the Master Rebuild Kit!!  I discovered that the new head does NOT come with exhaust manifold studs.  AND… the 3 studs on the intake side of the old head will NOT come out without destroying them.  So now I have to order some!!  Why, after 1000’s of rebuilds would the vendors NOT include the studs! Ridiculous!!   I would happily pay the extra cost for new studs in the kit, OR if Tod would have mentioned it to me while I’m order my parts, that would be nice to know.  Now I have to order new ones.
*RANT MODE OFF*

OK… I’m feeling a little better now.

QUESTION
Do any of you engine builders or mechanical gurus out there have any comments on the rocker pads (intake and exhaust), just on number 3 cylinder, sitting off the cam lobe by about .050” ? I don’t remember seeing a rocker pad that far off the cam lobe.

YOUR HELP
Since I am not an engine builder, any and all comments and suggestions during my rebuild will be very much appreciated.  You can harass me or let me know when I’m screwing up.  The last time I rebuilt an engine was in 1982, when I  completely rebuilt an Olds 455 for my 1968 Chevy long bed dune buggy hauler.  I did a head job on my 1985 22R pickup around 1999.

I apologize for the extra long intro…

Thanks,

Gnarls.



1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1 on: Jul 01, 2016, 07:21:45 PM »
Here's a photo of #3 rocker..
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #2 on: Jul 01, 2016, 07:31:19 PM »
Here's my 1986 Xtra Cab. 22RE. 5-speed...
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #3 on: Jul 01, 2016, 07:51:11 PM »
How's the alignment on the valve?

If it's shifted over, you could put a shim on there to shift the rocker over...........
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #4 on: Jul 01, 2016, 08:13:28 PM »
How's the alignment on the valve?

If it's shifted over, you could put a shim on there to shift the rocker over...........


Hey e,

Funny you posted that, I was just out in the garage looking at valve lash bolt touching the tip of valve.  I could move it over maybe .010" to .015".  Depending the thickness options for shims that would move the center of the pad over to almost center.  I'd have to pull the rack off and pull the rockers and springs off.  I measured the width of the cam lobes, the 261C measured about .005" more narrow than the stock cam lobes.

Well, I will sleep on this and pick it back up when I speak to Tod at engbldr.

Thanks for the suggestion, it looks like a shim would fix the issue.  I'm not sure what the specs are on rocker pad to cam lobe alignment?

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #5 on: Jul 02, 2016, 12:14:51 PM »
They probably won't be open Monday being the 4th. As for those intake studs, did you double nut them to try and remove them? And LCE's header studs are cheaper then buying Toyota studs.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #6 on: Jul 02, 2016, 02:11:22 PM »
They probably won't be open Monday being the 4th. As for those intake studs, did you double nut them to try and remove them? And LCE's header studs are cheaper then buying Toyota studs.

Hi M,

Oh yeah, forgot about the 4th!

Yes, I double nutted and used a small pair vice grips.  Those studs are not hardened. I was able to save one them.  One of the long ones would not budge!!  Went to the Toy dealer - 70 minutes round trip.  They had the long ones in stock.  I picked up the short ones at Ace Hardware.  I was able to get all the exhaust studs out of the old header :gap:, but I still need a couple short ones. I will temporarily install the stock header, while I order the Doug Thorley.

For the studs going into the exhaust manifold, do you use Locktite on the threads?  I usually use blue Locktite.  On the header threads I apply a little never seize.  What's the consensus on that?

Thanks,

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #7 on: Jul 02, 2016, 02:24:55 PM »
I didn't use locktite, but I did use never seize on the manifold side. As for the DT header, why did you choose that one? I heard it has/had problems  because of that welded o-ring never sealing right.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #8 on: Jul 02, 2016, 03:46:19 PM »
Since I pulled a couple of studs on the exhaust side;   I removed the remaining studs,   drilled and tapped for threaded inserts and used stainless threaded rod to replace the stock studs.


Won't ever pull out again.      Heavy duty Loctite on threaded inserts,  medium duty for the studs.

Did it with the head on the engine tooo.....
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #9 on: Jul 02, 2016, 07:01:18 PM »
I didn't use locktite, but I did use never seize on the manifold side. As for the DT header, why did you choose that one? I heard it has/had problems  because of that welded o-ring never sealing right.

I have heli-coiled and tapped several 22 heads *ON THE ENGINE*... It was really hard and I never was satisfied with the results.

I have my own theory on why the stock studs pull or spin.  The studs are in aluminum alloy and the difference in expansion coefficients, plus I think the two metals don't like to live together... that causes a corrosion on the threads and weakens the soft threads in the head.  The other thing that causes them to spin is the stock self-locking nut.. too much friction and torque.  Loctite is good.  On my '85 I used never-seize compound on the header threads and just a split lock washer and hex nut. I had to re-tighten them about 3 times before I got them to stay tight.

I have had a DT header on both my '86s and my '85.  Yes, the mating flange to the head is a bad design and should be perfectly flat.  I had to have all 3 of my DT headers machined flat and smooth.  I think the DT header is the best all-around Tri-Y header for a 22R or RE.  If I were racing my truck in the Baja 500 and would be WOT most of time at 5,000 RPM, then an LCE 4-in-to-1 header might be better choice.

Just a DT header and 2.25" exhaust with free-flow cat and muffler on a stock 22 will get about 10% increase in torque and HP numbers.  Back in late 80's I had a chance to meet and talk to one of Doug Thorely's engineers, he said the tri-y header is the easiest and least expensive modification and gain in throttle response in 22.

That's just my worthless opinion.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #10 on: Jul 02, 2016, 07:06:19 PM »
Since I pulled a couple of studs on the exhaust side;   I removed the remaining studs,   drilled and tapped for threaded inserts and used stainless threaded rod to replace the stock studs.


Won't ever pull out again.      Heavy duty Loctite on threaded inserts,  medium duty for the studs.

Did it with the head on the engine tooo.....

Oh yeah... stainless steel... good idea!  I wish I knew a guru metallurgist I could ask him/her some questions.

For me to do it right, I think longer studs, lock washers and double nuts would be the fix.  I won't use the stock self-locking nuts.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #11 on: Jul 03, 2016, 05:24:47 AM »
To document my rebuild experience…  :moods:

Here’s some history before I catch up to now…

First I saved up $3,000 in cash - $100 bills (don’t they feel really good when you count them!) :D

For about a week off and on I checked out buying long blocks, short blocks and rebuilts on the net, and my local repair shops … decided too many complaints, and just don’t trust the builders, and buying an “unknown” was too risky, and way over my projected budget.  Since I have a well equipped garage and I’m a reasonably good DIYer, I made the decision to give it a go myself…… BUT made first mistake… started in Arizona summer time…. Dumb move! :smack:

Started an Excel spreadsheet for projected costs and sources. :yupyup:

Called and got quotes from local machine shops.  The machine shop work took longer than I planned. It was about 3 weeks and multiple 2 hour round trips to Phoenix before I picked up the finished block, crank, rods, flywheel & pressure plate. :shake_head:

Purchased an engine stand and shop crane (cherry picker) from Harbor Freight.  Very heavy to get in an out of the trunk of my car.  It took over an hour just to assembly them. :crazy:

HOT TIP:  :thumbs:  The night before I started, I sprayed liquid wrench on all the exhaust nuts and bolts, I SHOULD HAVE sprayed it on other nuts and bolts, like the cross member, drive shaft, bell housing bolts, motor mounts, and other nuts and bolts that I had to loosen.

Next morning .... Time to get serious and greasy… turned on the air compressor, grabbed wrenches, and crawled under the truck.  Marked drive shafts and flanges, removed the rear drive shaft and front drive shaft.

Jack supported tranny.  Removed cross member… thank God for air compressors and my heavy duty impact tool!

Lowered tranny to get to the top bolts in the bell housing.  The first time I pulled did a clutch job on my 85, I did it without any air tools, and only two bottle jacks, wooden blocks, and tie downs…. I will NEVER :shake_head: do that again.  This time I used my nifty Harbor Freight transmission jack.

I used 3 long 1/2 “ extensions and sockets to get the tranny bolts loose from the back of engine.  I should have removed the stabilizer bar, so now I’ll have to do to lower the tranny & t-case and get to them from under the truck.

I blocked up the engine at the oil pan and slightly raised and lowered the tranny jack to get the input shaft to pull out of the clutch disc and pilot bearing. I had to make love to it for awhile!

Next I took video and photos of the engine compartment… but I screwed up and DID NOT take enough!  :hammerhead:

Got very hot (110d F) in the garage :outtahere:… stopped for an ice cold Monster Rehab and Arizona Ice Tea. :beerchug:

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Jul 03, 2016, 07:14:10 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #12 on: Jul 03, 2016, 11:37:37 AM »
 :spin:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #13 on: Jul 03, 2016, 12:45:40 PM »
12:46 PM AZ time, I have the guides, tensioner, sprockets, and chain installed.  I'm checking the 2 cover gaskets for clearance and fit and see the tips of both gaskets that touches the bottom of the head are too long by about 1/16 of an inch, causing it bulge a little. I'm going to carefully trim them.

Do you guys apply RTV (I've got The Right Stuff) on the entire top edge of the t-cover where it mates to the bottom of the head?

I plan to use Permatex High Tack for the gaskets on the block.

Thanks,

Gnarls.


« Last Edit: Jul 03, 2016, 12:58:16 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #14 on: Jul 03, 2016, 01:17:47 PM »
Just finishing up my re rebuild and the fsm calls for sealant only on the edges of the cover where it meets the head. 

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #15 on: Jul 03, 2016, 08:30:08 PM »
Well.... I'm more than a little angry.

I attempted to install the timing cover and it will not fit over the locating pins.... not even close.

So..... I buggered up the two gaskets trying to get it on.  I removed cam sprocket and chain, and the head.  I mic'd the locating holes in the cover and the pins on the block.... the holes are the same diameter as the pins.

I cannot figure out how this cover ever fit onto the block.  So this cover is NOT the same cover that came off my engine....  Or... while the machine shop was doing their thing to my block they somehow buggered up the locating pins in the block, or the removed them and had to replace them and distorted the metal pressing them back in?

I don't know... but I'm very upset.

I will take my little Dremel tool and grind out the holes 3 or 4 thousandths, and try it again in the AM.  If it will fit over the locating pins easily, I'll have probably have to wait until Tuesday to buy new gaskets.  If it does not fit, then on Tuesday morning I'll have a serious conversation with the machine shop.

On another issue, after looking at the oil pump that came in the white box from engnblder's Master Kit, it looks like poor quality compared to the factory oil pump.  It came in a white box, NOT a DNJ box.  Since oil pumps don't usually wear out like a water pump, I'm thinking I'll reinstall the one that come off the engine.

Remember.... 4th of July fireworks and gun shots can scare your pets - dogs and cats - Please make sure they are safe and aren't able to run off and disappear like many do during the 4th and New Years.

Have a safe and happy 4th of July!   :biggthumpup:

Don't forget to put your American Flag out tomorrow!   :usa:

Gnarls.


1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #16 on: Jul 05, 2016, 05:59:54 AM »
OK, I figured out why I could not get the T-cover to fit up against the block.

Yesterday at 105 d F in the garage wanting to make some progress, dripping sweat, hungry, thirsty, crotchety, not thinking clearly. 

I could not locate the cover on the locating ring dowels. I thought the cover would not slip onto the dowels. It's my own inexperience and overly analytical syndrome.  :shake:

So at 3:25am this morning, I've had 2 cups of coffee, engaged a fresh 6 pack of brain cells, something told me the ring dowels and cover is not the problem. I went out to the garage and removed the chain guides.  BINGO!!.... the cover slipped on perfectly, no resistance. PROBLEM: The driver side metal chain guide is not made correctly and would not allow the cover to move over enough to the upper location dowel.  Basically the holes in the guide for the bolts need to be slotted or more accurately drilled.  I don’t know the engineering design or the manufacturer of this guide, but I will talk to engbldr about it.  The metal backed guide does fix the very common design flaw with the plastic OEM style guide where the material around the bolt holes was totally insufficient!  After 46+ years since this engine style has been available, you’d think someone would have figured out a fix to the very common cause of engine failure WAY before!!

Buying parts that don't fit, defective out of the box. not the correct part, and all other crap that you buy that makes you stop your progress and usually costs you time and money, is on my top 10 all time list of "Guaranteed to make blood shoot out of my eyes".

Are there any of you guys or gals out there that have installed the “metal backed guide” and had to replace them for any reason?

I bought new gaskets yesterday, so I'm ready to start again this morning.

Sorry the photo posted twice and I don't know how to remove one of them?
Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #17 on: Jul 05, 2016, 09:43:11 AM »
For the folks out there, like me, who wants to attempt an engine rebuild, is a reasonably good mechanic, has the right tools, or access to them, has the time and money, and feels good about doing it yourself.

July 5th, 2016…Some of the things I’ve learned and experienced so far about MY rebuild and this project…..

BUDGET:  My target budget and time to complete R&R was under estimated.  I have an Excel spreadsheet, tracking my expenses and all parts purchased…. So far I’m right about $3,500 out of pocket… ouch.  I started around May 9th.

WEATHER: Don’t start a rebuild during the summer in Phoenix area Arizona unless your shop is air conditioned.

ENGINE REMOVAL AND DISASSEMBLY: Take lots of videos and photos of every part of the removal process. Mark locations for reinstall and put into containers every nut and bolt as you remove them.

PARTS CLEANING:  I used my large Home Depot concrete mixing tub to clean big parts.  I used paint thinner from Wal-Mart. I used a plastic roller brush paint tray for nuts, bolts and small parts.  At the end of the day, I poured the used paint thinner back into the gallon jugs, wiped the tub out, and put the tub outside to keep it from stinking up the garage. I used fresh paint thinner on final clean.  I used acetone (1 gal from Wal-Mart) to clean all oil, paint, or paint thinner off gasket surfaces.  Old T-shirts work well for rags. I can’t image not having an air compressor and air tools.

NITRILE GLOVES - I bought 5mil and 9mil blue nitrile gloves from Harbor Freight – love those gloves – cheap and work great when you have to have clean hands to do something.

TIME FRAME:  3 weeks and multiple trips to machine shop were not anticipated.  1 week for them to check out block.  1 week to order and get parts for machine shop.  1 week for machine shop to clean, check, machine, mic rods, mains, and crank.

MACHINE WORK: Don’t deck the block more than recommended to clean deck unless you plan to consider issues with cam timing (adjustable cam gear), raised compression, and over-heating issues.

BEFORE INSTALLLING ANY PARTS – lay out the gaskets and all associated parts.
 
CHECK BEFORE INSTALLATION:  Always check the fit of the timing chain cam cover before attempting to install it.  Same for installing a new pilot bearing and clutch disc during a clutch job.  ALWAYS…. Check that the new  pilot bearing will fit easily over the tip of the tranny input shaft and that the new clutch disc will easily slip over the splines on the tranny input shaft… BEFORE attempting to slide the tranny into the bell housing.

SEALANT:  Permatex High Tack doesn’t seem adhere well to block – it’s very messy to work with out of the brush container. It does come in a spray can – which was recommended by the machine shop – I just could find it in stock.  I’m not sure that it is a good gasket sealer.

Permatex Form-a-Gasket #2 non-hardening adheres very well – I used it on the freeze plugs, and on the threads for the allen head plugs (3), drain plug on block, an hex head oil plug next the oil filter.

Permatex the Right Stuff is very sticky and thick – probably will be great for oil pan without a gasket – won’t use the cork gasket that comes in the kit.  I think a thin layer on the surface where the T-chain cover mates with the head gasket will work well.  I plan to use Permatex Ultra Black for the timing cover, water pump, and oil pump.

Permatex Ultra Black – I haven’t used it yet.

PARTS AND ORDERING:
@ BLOCK PLUGS - I didn’t know the machine shop would remove and the five plugs on the block, and I didn’t photograph them.  I would have ordered new allen plugs and hex plug kit to replace the ones the machine shop removed.  The machine didn’t say anything, and destroyed two of plugs removing them. I ordered replacements from 22RE Performance. 

@ EXHAUST HEADER STUDS – remove exhaust studs from old head to make sure you can use them or have to order new ones.

@ INTAKE MANIFOLD STUDS – the 3 studs will NOT come without destroying them.  I had to make a trip to Toyota dealer to buy new ones and they didn’t stock both sizes.  Bought studs at Ace Hardware…way cheaper.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #18 on: Jul 05, 2016, 09:37:18 PM »
I have been using permatex aviation gasket maker to coat my gaskets lately and have gotten excellent results. I have all but sworn off any kind of silicone product.
-1987 SR5 4runner, 1KZ-te turbo diesel with custom 3" S.S. dump pipe, R-151f transmission, marlin dual ultimate transfer cases w/ triple shifter, SAS, 35's
-1984 SR5 Tercel 4wd wagon bone stock - given to my nephew
-1:10 scale RC 4wd crawler w/yota axles, R2 2 speed enclosed dig tranny and 1st gen 4Runner body by BigBird
-My build thread http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98969.0
-My front axle service write-up http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=97311.0[/ur

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #19 on: Jul 05, 2016, 11:08:33 PM »
First, i commend you! I had such an awesome time a couple years ago rebuilding mine!  I live a few miles from Tod ENGNBLDR, and I'm both surprised and sorry you had that experience with his products... I'd be surprised if he doesn't send you some new guides if you send those back...

Second, for the oil pan, you want to use FIPG from the dealership. Make sure the sealing surface is flat where the bolts go through.. often times people use the fel pro gaskets and it bends the area around the built holes on the pan, causing it to cut/split the gasket and leak...
 If O'Reillys is closer, you could use #2 sealant, but FIPG (form in place gasket) is what you should use. Do not use the fel-pro cork/rubber gasket.

Third, don't install the header (I have Doug thorley's Tri Y header) until the engine is in with the tranny bolted on.

You want to use REMFLEX exhaust gaskets! It'll come in a kit of 2 or 3.. for the header, O2 sensor if you have one, and the triple flange after the collector.
Remflex gaskets are 100% graphite with a 50% crush rating.. you don't have to retorque them either, although I admit I tried to.
For the exhaust studs, i used a high temp red loctite. Hasn't failed yet!

Finally, don't forget the ground wires for the injectors lol... took me a couple days figuring that one out haha..

Straight pipe through a flowmaster and you'll have such a sweet sound! The 261 cam is worth it!


Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

1993 Standard cab chassis. 1989 Extended Cab. 22R-E BO .020, ENGNBLDR 261c cam, Doug Thorley Tri-Y header, Straight Pipe through a Flowmaster 40, ARB Rear Locker, York OBA with fabricated bracket.
Projects waiting in my shop: '83 Front Axle, TG Sliders, second tcase, NEW: XD 4.70 gears!

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #20 on: Jul 06, 2016, 03:38:25 AM »
I have been using permatex aviation gasket maker to coat my gaskets lately and have gotten excellent results. I have all but sworn off any kind of silicone product.

Hi h,

My dad was an auto mechanic and that's all he used for gaskets.  Autozone didn't have it in stock the day I shopped for sealant, so I bought other Permatex.  The brush bottle is less messy than using stuff out of tube and finger it on.  I have over $40 invested in sealant/RTV, so I guess another $8 or $9 bucks won't destroy my already blown budget.

Gaskets always give me a flashback to the late 50's early 60's, my dad liked old cars and I was always in garage helping him keep them running. We were poor, so he had limited tools and limited funds to repair his old cars.  He taught me how to make gaskets out of cereal boxes!  I took a ball-peen hammer (he called it "the ball & thingy" hammer), and with the ball part, gently pound around the sharp edges part, and bolt holes, and cut out the gasket. Then I'd spread on some form-a-gasket with the little brush.  I loved the smell of it.

Thanks for the input and tip!

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Jul 06, 2016, 04:33:18 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #21 on: Jul 06, 2016, 04:27:35 AM »
First, i commend you!... I'd be surprised if he doesn't send you some new guides if you send those back... 

Hi e,

Thanks. Yeah, I'm glad I decided to rebuild it myself.  I'm way slower than the average at auto-anything, but I try hard not to do it twice.  Putting everything back together is really frustrating because I'm not sure of the sequence of how I disassembled some parts.  :confused:

I spoke to Tod yesterday. He is very knowledgeable and very nice guy.  He explained that over 20 years of selling the metal guide, he's had "only a handful of out 1000's sold" with a clearance issue.  On the block the metal guide sat over 1/8" too far to the inside of the cover. I find it hard to imagine that my block and stock factory cover can be that for off compared to other blocks and covers.

I suggested that the guide needs to have the bolt holes slotted, like the OEM guides. No point to send me a new one, it would have the same problem.  I slotted the 2 holes and it fits perfectly now.

I've taken notes from your post... excellent info! :thumbs:    Unless you are a mechanic that works on Toyotas, as Toyota owner, a disadvantage is that you don't get much "practice".

I also asked Tod again about the 261C vs the 268.  He said the 261C is the best profile for my truck (31" tires, 4:10 diff).  He said the 268 cam will produce torque and HP in the upper RPM range. 

On the #3 exhaust rocker pad being off about .050" from the center of the cam lobe. He said it's "common" defect the 22s, and should not cause any issues with the cam lobe or rocker pad as long as the rocker lash bolt is sitting in the center of the valve stem.

I'm learning new stuff every day!  By 2026 I could be at  "expert" status.  :gap:

Gnarls.


« Last Edit: Jul 06, 2016, 05:19:57 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

toyodaaddict

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #22 on: Jul 06, 2016, 09:39:15 AM »
" I'm learning new stuff every day!  By 2026 I could be at  "expert" status. " This is about where I'm at with my rebuild experience as well, that and maybe I'll be done by 2026   :rofl2:

I'm a fan of the aviation form a gasket as well, that and ultra grey, depending on the application.   Aviation is the best thing I've found for trans/tcase's when used with marlins paper gaskets.
80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #23 on: Jul 06, 2016, 11:18:29 AM »
.....  and maybe I'll be done by 2026   :rofl2:

Hi t,

Are doing a rebuild on your 22RE, or have you done one in the recent past?

Gnarls.


1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

toyodaaddict

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #24 on: Jul 06, 2016, 11:42:52 AM »

Hi t,

Are doing a rebuild on your 22RE, or have you done one in the recent past?

Gnarls.



I am at the tail end of my first rebuild. I hope not to be doing another for a long time to come :crossed:

80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #25 on: Jul 06, 2016, 12:31:27 PM »
Gnarly, are you sure it's the guides you're having problems with? I installed the Engnbldr chain kit a while ago and never had a problem but when I was installing my new timing cover from Engnbldr it seemed like there was less clearance for the LCE timing kit I had.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #26 on: Jul 06, 2016, 01:24:18 PM »
Gnarly, are you sure it's the guides you're having problems with? I installed the Engnbldr chain kit a while ago and never had a problem but when I was installing my new timing cover from Engnbldr it seemed like there was less clearance for the LCE timing kit I had.

Hi M,

I appreciate the input.

Yes, I'm positive the two bolt holes in the metal rail were located too far inward towards the center of the engine, by .14", a little over an 1/8".  When I tried to locate the cover onto the upper and lower locating dowels, the cover would touch the rubber on outside of the guide - no amount of pressure would move 1/8th of an inch!  My block is factory, my TC cover is factory Toyota.  I may have just one of those weird deals, but I doubt it.  If I were engbldr I'd have those the metal guide holes sloted, or relocate the bolt holes during manufacturing.

As I mentioned before, I sloted the holes with rat-tail file and bingo.... she slipped right on.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #27 on: Jul 06, 2016, 01:27:39 PM »
I am at the tail end of my first rebuild. I hope not to be doing another for a long time to come :crossed:



Tail end??? Tail end is great!  I'd love to be at the tail end!  Where in the "sequence of events" are you?

I just installed the timing chain, cover, water pump, oil pump, torqued the head, installed the big water pipe, the little water pipe. I'm about to install the intake manifold and ERG pipe, etc.

And, a big FLIPP'N  YES to "not to be doing another for a long time to come"!!!!!


Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Jul 06, 2016, 01:33:20 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

toyodaaddict

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #28 on: Jul 06, 2016, 01:46:29 PM »
Tail end??? Tail end is great!  I'd love to be at the tail end!  Where in the "sequence of events" are you?

I just installed the timing chain, cover, water pump, oil pump, torqued the head, installed the big water pipe, the little water pipe. I'm about to install the intake manifold and ERG pipe, etc.

And, a big FLIPP'N  YES to "not to be doing another for a long time to come"!!!!!


Gnarls.

Hahaha, I meant I'm about done with the hard part. Bottom end is completely assembled and the head is on. I had an issue with the rocker assemble, so I'm waiting on parts, they should be here Friday.  I hope to have the engine running by Monday or Tuesday, we will see.
80 shortbed-22re,w56,Marlin 23 spline dual cases,HighAngle drivelines,RUF/63"chevy's,35''mtr's,85 front axle,30 spline Longfields, Allpro highsteer.87 rear axle,5.29 gears,rear spool,BudBuilt cm, marlin HD clutch,ramsey 8000 winch. 
     Also 84 toy DD 22R 4.88s,33'' toyo mt'z, marlin clutch,4inch lift/63's, HA drivelines.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #29 on: Jul 06, 2016, 02:18:21 PM »
It must be in the air to rebuild 22re's. I just dropped mine in last Sunday and am waiting for the injectors to come back.  Good to know about that issue with Engnbldr's timing set thoug!

 
 
 
 
 

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