Author Topic: '84 SR5 Pickup 20/22R Hybrid Project  (Read 26721 times)

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Plainview

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'84 SR5 Pickup 20/22R Hybrid Project
« on: Apr 08, 2015, 08:25:54 PM »
Guess I'll start a build thread for this truck and 79Coyotefrg can merge my engine thread about the 20/22R hybrid in here.

I bought this truck about 12 years ago.  It had the straightest, cleanest body I'd seen in awhile and it was only $1200 which even back then was fairly cheap around here.  I think it probably lived it's early life in a much sunnier climate as the interior is pretty baked - all the plastic is brittle and/or chalky.  I wanted an extended cab but for the price and condition of the body I couldn't pass this one up.  It also came with a spare rebuildable core 22R in the bed.

It had about 195K on it and the engine was a mess.  Leaking oil like the Exxon Valdez and burning oil to the tune of a quart every 500 miles.  Someone who didn't know what they were doing had been working on it and there was blue silicone everywhere so I set to work getting it sealed back up.  New oil pan, timing cover, and valvecover gaskets got rid of most of the leaks.  The head was really clean, no sludge at all so I think someone put a new or rebuilt head on it too.  I put a new timing chain in while I was at it.  It still had one leak I couldn't figure out at first - oil was dripping off the underside of the intake manifold.  That made no sense until I tried to change the oil filter.  Someone had put it on with a filter wrench and kinked it, causing a pinhole in the filter itself that sprayed an oil mist on the underside of the intake.  The filter was stuck fast to the block and I couldn't spin it off.  Drove a big screwdriver through it and all that did was twist the body of the filter right off the baseplate which was still stuck to the block.  Had to pry an edge of the baseplate up so I could get vice grips on it then use a hammer to pound it loose.

Here's what it looked like right after I bought it:



I was pretty poor at the time so since it ran smooth and quiet I just kept pouring oil in it and drove it, though I did have to put a new cat converter on to get it to pass emissions.  While I was at it I had a 2-1/4" exhaust with a Magnaflow muffler installed from the factory headpipe and a high flow converter put on.  After about six months I read about the FJ rotors with IFS calipers upgrade and since it needed axle seals I decided to tackle both at the same time.  Ordered an axle seal kit from Marlin and spent a weekend getting familiar with the hubs, seals, and Birfields.

New brakes lookin' pretty:



After that I drove it as my daily driver until about mid '04 when the engine developed a knock.  I decided to park it and then I changed careers, life got in the way, yadda yadda yadda and it sat in my garage untouched for almost ten years.  I did read up on the 20/22R hybrids during that time and boought an '80 20R head with the power steering and mechanical fuel pump provisions and bought an intake manifold from someone else.  Didn't know at the time that the manifolds were different between the electric fuel pump and mechanical pump motors, and there were several other small details I didn't know about and had to learn along the way.  Hopefully I can detail those experiences here so anyone else who wants to build one of these will be a little better prepared.  Also got the engine all re-machined and the head rebuilt during this time but the parts just sat for a long time until this last year when I finally got around to putting it together.

The goal is a reliable little truck that can be driven daily, haul stuff for home improvement projects, take me skiing, camping, hiking, and fishing, and explore some of the 4WD roads we have around here.  I'm not planning on any hard-core wheeling with it and I want it to be as efficient and easy on gas as an old truck can be.  I'll probably be getting a dirt bike and a small camping trailer in the next couple of years so need it to be able to haul/tow that stuff too.

On to the engine build - First off was the head - Had oversized valves installed that are the correct length for a 20R (22R valves are shorter) and got a rebuilt rocker assembly and a cam from Delta Cams in Tacoma.

Here's what the short side radius and intake bowls looked like after the new seats were installed:



That big ridge on the short side radius couldn't be good, so I got busy with the die grinder and did a little head porting/bowl blending.

Here's the short side and bowl after re-working:







Next it was on to the block.  I decided to rebuild the core block that came with the truck.  The original engine still ran even though it had a bad rod bearing and I figured it was better to leave an engine in it in case I needed to move it.  This presented an unforeseen problem.

The early 22R blocks, up to sometime in early '84 used a different main bearing than the mid '84 and later 22R/RE blocks.  I had no idea and ordered bearings for an '84.  The only difference is in the placement of the locating tangs on the top center main bearings and all of the lower half main bearings:





Toyota must have had some bored engineers, I can't imagine why they felt the need to change this one small thing...

Locating the proper bearings for the early 22R is a pregnant dog but I did find some.  The thing I didn't like about them is that they only come in fully grooved sets, not half-grooved like the later bearings but at this point I'd already had the block bored and the crank turned so decided to just go with the fully grooved bearings and hope for the best.

Longblock assembly went smooth and I used a double-roller timing chain for added strength.







After all this time I wasn't sure about where some things went but I still had the original 22R to refer back to and scavenge various bits and bolts off of.  I completely de-smogged this motor so there were a lot of vacuum lines and sensors that didn't get reinstalled. 

Next up was fitting the 20R intake.  The original 20R water routing wasn't going to work and this fitting for the heater hose had to go.  It was stuck bad.  I spent two nights heating it red hot with a torch then dousing it with penetrating oil and letting it cool before it would budge.  I had to clamp the fitting in a vice and twist the intake off of it.





Since I couldn't use the 20R hose routing I found a neat solution from LCEngineering - this spiffy water plate with the fitting in the right place for the bottom of the intake:





I also ordered EGR and O2 sensor blockoff plates at the same time.

A header isn't in the budget yet and the factory 4-into-2 exhaust manifold would have to do but I needed to block off the air injection holes, so a pipe tap and a couple brass plugs got the job done:



I re-painted all the brackets and pullies and disassembled the belt tensioner, flushed out the bearing and let it soak in oil for a few days, turning it by hand while submerged in oil every time I went out to the garage to ensure it was nice and clean and had plenty of fresh oil in it.





The tensioner spins nice and smooth so doubt I need a new bearing.

Here it is, almost ready to be reinstalled.  I ended up pulling a couple of those plugs back out of the manifold for the PCV, power brakes, and evap vacuum lines.



Since I'm building a little hot rod 4-cylinder it needed a Weber carb.  At the time I took these pics I was in a hurry to get the engine back in and running so didn't deal with the divider in the intake manifold under the carb.  I didn't get the truck together in time for the trip I was planning to take it on anyway, so should have just dealt with it then.  I'll get to it at some point in the not-too-distant future as this can't be anything but a restriction:



Since I needed to step the pressure down from the stock mechanical pump I ordered one of these spiffy regulators and a pressure gauge so I can tell what it's set to:



There was a very handy bolt boss on the intake to mount it to.  You can also see one of the problems I was about to run into in this picture...



But before that problem occurred to me, another cropped up.  I didn't get a thermostat housing (also called water neck) with the intake when I bought it and I figured re-using the 22R water neck would be no problem.  Wrong.

The 20R intake clocks the water neck differently and the 22R neck ends up being aimed right at the fuel pump.



On top of that, the 22R neck is a different shape and won't even line up and seal properly on the 20R intake:



So, I had to burn a day hunting down a place that would sell me just the water neck off a 20R with a mechanical fuel pump.

Then I realized that the water temp sensor bung is in a bad place on this intake.  This intake must be off an earlier 20R with the electric pump.



When I went to the wrecking yard to buy the water neck I saw that the intake manifold for the mechanical fuel pump equipped 20r puts the temp sensor in a different place, over by the water neck.  This manifold just doesn't have the provision for that.  The yard owner wouldn't sell the intake without selling the head, even though he was willing to part with the water neck.  I wasn't about to buy the head *and* intake unless I absolutely had to.

Luckily, the temp sensor just BARELY fits.  I bent the tab on the sensor over 90 degrees so the plug in the factory harness would fit onto it, and amazingly it works.



Back to the Weber carb.  This thing is pissing me off.  You'd think that for as long as Weber has been selling these things they'd have all the little details worked out, but apparently not.

First up was this tab on the bottom of the throttle linkage.  It hit the adapter plate and bound up the linkage so I had to grind it down for clearance.



Other problems with the carb are being detailed in the thread about the engine which will get merged with this one, so more on that later.

 :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving: :driving:



« Last Edit: Apr 24, 2015, 10:58:22 PM by 79coyotefrg »
'84 Xtra Cab Project:
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Plainview [OP]

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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #1 on: Apr 08, 2015, 08:38:07 PM »
Here's the engine re-installed in the truck.  I do have a video of the initial startup but it's in two parts and I need to edit it a little before posting.



After cleaning the distributor up and getting it back in the engine fired instantly but the initial break-in didn't go too smooth.  It started overheating and I had to shut it down after a couple minutes.  I finished the breakin by firing it up, running it for a few minutes then shutting it off and letting it cool down, repeating that process until I'd been able to run it for about 15 minutes total.  Then I changed the oil and filter and that was that.

I got a new radiator for it and changed the thermostat to a 180 degree unit and that fixed the overheating.  The power steering pump was making awful noises and the fluid looked like a cheap chocolate weight-loss drink so I flushed it all out with clean fluid and replaced the pump and the pressure hose while I was at it.

Next up was the gas tank.  Back when the truck was running it would leak gas if I filled it over half full.  Just little drips, but this had to be dealt with now before I could start driving it again.

I dropped the tank and found a bunch of pine needles and dirt packed in all around the stock fuel filter and up against the tank, causing it to rust pretty badly in one spot.  The rest of the tank was in good shape and the inside of it was spotless.





I opted for the cheap fix - JB Weld.  For $5.49 it was worth trying.  JB Weld is impervious to gas and other automotive chemicals and I've talked to a couple guys who've fixed tanks like this and one is still driving his car 11 years after the fix with no problems, so crossing my fingers.  The tank isn't that hard to drop out if I end up having to replace it at some point.

Here's the tank after I stripped it all down, coated it with phosphoric acid and applied the JB Weld:



Here it is painted with Rustoleum and ready to go back in:



Since the truck had been sitting since '04 I figured I'd better replace all the fluids before driving it, so drained and replaced the oil in the diffs, trans, and t-case.  When I went to bleed the brakes I found the driver's side rear wheel cylinder leaking.



This was a bummer because the rear brakes had been rebuilt shortly before I stopped driving it.  Here's the in-new-condition shoes all soaked with brake fluid:



After replacing the wheel cylinder and shoes I bled the brakes and took it for it's first drive in over 10 years.  There's still lots more to do and the carb needs work (more on that later) but it runs and drives now.  Woohoo!

Oh, and one of the wheels that came on the truck had damaged lug holes from being driven with the nuts loose (before I bought it) and I didn't trust the ancient, nearly bald, dried out and cracked tires so kept my eyes on Craigslist and eventually found a deal on a set of wheels with 32" MT tires

Suspension is next. The stock springs and all the bushings are shot and I have no idea how old the crusty old shocks are so after reading about suspension and talking to a guy at Marlin I decided to order OME springs, 5" shackles, a dropped drag link, extended brake hoses, and Rancho RS9000 shocks.  I'll fab my own sway bar end links and probably remove the torque rod.  I ordered the heavy OME springs and will just remove a leaf for now.  This should give me the ride and lift I'm looking for.  The only downside is it's not enough lift for a high-steer conversion so will have to live with stock steering.  I'll carry extra parts with me in case something breaks...

If the weather is decent this weekend I'll get it all cleaned up and take some pics with the new wheels.  I also have some H4 conversion headlight housings so will post about those next.  The suspension hasn't arrived yet (other than the drag link) so I'll detail that when I get to installing it sometime in the next couple of weeks.



 :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly: :willynilly:
I searched and didn't find anyone talking about this particular problem...

I just fired up my 20/22R hybrid engine tonight for the first time.  Has a brand new 32/36 DGEV on it.   Engine seemed to run fine (except it's overheating, but I have some ideas about that) but when I shut it down I noticed fuel dripping into the primary throttle bore.  Enough fuel to create a puddle on top of the throttle blade!  Obviously, this is not a good thing.  What could be causing it?

It also seems to be running really rich as it burned ~4 gallons of gas during the 15-20 minute break-in. I'm hoping that's just a matter of re-jetting/tuning.

Engine idled smoothly all the way down to 650 RPM and was responsive with no hesitation, but of course it wasn't under load.

EDIT:   I merged Plainviews three threads on his engine/timing/carb because they all relate to each other.
79coyotefrg

Started my new 20/22R hybrid for the first time tonight and have some questions about timing and the distributor.

Dist is from a 1984 22R.

I'm getting 14 degrees of mechanical advance out of it.  Does that seem right? (Seems like not much...)

With vacuum applied to the furthest forward (nearest radiator) nipple on the vac. advance it gets another 14 degrees of advance.

The rear nipple does nothing with vacuum applied to it.

With initial timing set at 5 degrees I get 19 with no vac. advance and 31 with vac. advance.  That seems low to me... ???

Is the vac. advance defective since the rear nipple does nothing?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: Apr 24, 2015, 11:02:13 PM by 79coyotefrg »
'84 Xtra Cab Project:
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=100651.new#new
Parts Wanted:

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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #2 on: Apr 08, 2015, 09:23:49 PM »
They do take some tweaking to get them dialed in. 

Alot of the newer ones, just are not the same quality as the older ones.  Different manufacture. 
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Plainview [OP]

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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #3 on: Apr 08, 2015, 09:33:03 PM »
Hi All,

I've been *really* taking my time putting together a 20/22R hybrid engine for my '84 pickup.  Well, finally started it for the first time tonight and ran into a few issues.  I created threads for the distributor and Weber questions, but I have a couple other questions for anyone who's built one of these before.

First, some details:

Block is an early '83 22R which caused some problems when I ordered bearings as the bearing design changed in early '84 and my truck is an '84 so I ordered '84 bearings...  It's a basic stock rebuild with ARP rod bolts.  Machine work was done so long ago I don't remember the over/undersizes on everything, but none of that really matters anyway.

Had the block decked a little which may cause issues with the timing chain.  I'll deal with that later though if I have issues with the way the engine runs.

Installed oversize valves in the 20R head and ported it to blend the bowls into the new seats and rework the short-turn radius.  Also gasket matched the intake flange.  Head was surfaced just enough to true it up.

Put a 32/36 Weber on the 20R intake and am using the stock exhaust manifold which is the 4 into 2 design.  Eventually plan to upgrade to a Thorly tri-y.  Rest of the exhaust is custom bent 2-1/4" with a Flowmaster muffler and aftermarket high flow cat.  The cat is the only emission device left on this truck and that was installed years ago when it was required to pass emissions (it isn't any more).

Cam is from Delta cams in Tacoma.  Can't remember the specs on the grind, believe it's their "260" grind.  in any case, it's one step up from a stock cam.  Delta also supplied a rebuilt rocker shaft assembly.

A few nifty pieces from LC Engineering to tidy things up, such as this manifold heater plate:



And this 02 sensor blockoff plate:



Fired it up for the first time tonight and ran into some issues, the biggest of which is that it's overheating.  Got hot enough to boil the fuel in the carb - has anyone ever had that issue before?

I'm wondering how much power this thing will make when I get it all dialed in.  Hoping for 120-130 HP.

Anyway, just wanted to share and ask some questions of those who've built these engines before.  Did you have any overheating problems?  Did you use the stock timing specs?  If you had a Weber carb, how was it setup (mine's running REALLY rich).

Thanks!

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http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=100651.new#new
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Plainview [OP]

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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #4 on: Apr 08, 2015, 09:45:59 PM »
Heh, and I even bought one of the "genuine European" Webers and not the supposedly inferior US made copy...   :shake:

any idea on what could be causing fuel to drip into the throttle bore after the engine is shut down?
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4xChinook4

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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #5 on: Apr 09, 2015, 04:04:47 PM »
Hey bro, sorry I would not be the one to help you out, even though I was hoping to be part of the hybrid crowd just did not work out. but it looks like you have a beautiful motor on your hands. Keep up the good work. can't wait to see what this puppy puts out. and Glen is the hybrid master, hopefully he comments on this thread. his username is

79coyotefrg

in case you want to try and PM him. hope you figure out what your problem is.
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Plainview [OP]

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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #6 on: Apr 09, 2015, 05:06:17 PM »
Thanks 4x4Chinook.  I'll post some more detailed pics over the next couple of days.  I took video of the startup also.  it started so easily and quickly I was totally blown away so you'll hear me swearing some in disbelief...

Hopefully Glen will chime in here in the next couple days.  If not, I'll PM him.

I'm going out now to pull the radiator.  Not working tomorrow so I'll take it down to a shop where they said they'd flow test it for free and if it's bad they can rebuild for $225 which seems like a decent deal.

I'm also going to pull the thermostat and check it in a pan of hot water.

The fan clutch is good, so other than a plugged up radiator I'm not sure what could be causing the issues?

As for the carb, I'm going to pull it tonight also and check the float level and what jets & such are in it and compare to what other people are running.

I find it strange that timing information is so scarce on these engines.   I have been building and working on engines since I was a kid and even worked in a machine shop building racing engines for awhile - American V8s mostly, and timing curves are very important to an engine's performance and economy yet no one seems to know anything about the timing curves in these engines or experiments with modifying them.   It's *almost* enough to make me drop the $$$ for one of those DUI distributors as I'm very familiar with GM HEIs and have a big collection of weights and center plates to cook up just about any kind of timing curve I want.   The danger is that I'm totally unfamiliar with what the Toyota 2xR engines like in terms of total timing under load and over-advanced timing can break things pretty quick.
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twistedtoy92

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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #7 on: Apr 09, 2015, 06:27:31 PM »
What is your timing set at?
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #8 on: Apr 09, 2015, 07:33:48 PM »
Sure thing bro.  Well maybe this will be thread for the 2xR timing curves.
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #9 on: Apr 09, 2015, 07:34:11 PM »
Sure thing bro.  Well maybe this will be thread for the 2xR timing curves.
:yesnod:
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #10 on: Apr 09, 2015, 08:36:28 PM »
Congratulations on firing the motor.
Maybe some grit or otherwise improperly sealing float valve is causing the leak? Worth a look while things are still apart...

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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #11 on: Apr 09, 2015, 08:58:13 PM »
Turns out I'm not working tomorrow so will pull the carb and go through it.  I need to check the float level and want to find out what jets/tubes are in it and compare that to what other people are running.

I have a pressure regulator on it with a pressure gauge mounted right on one of the regulator ports and can see the fluttering from the pulsing of the mechanical pump.  Needle seemed to be hovering right around 2-3 psi though so pressure isn't too high - maybe too low if anything but that wouldn't cause the problems I'm seeing.

I will convert to electric pump before too long, but just want to get the truck driveable before I change any other components.
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http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=100651.new#new
Parts Wanted:

- Un-cracked dash pad (do they exist?)

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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #12 on: Apr 09, 2015, 09:06:45 PM »
Twistedtoy92 - Initial was at 8 during the break-in.  I see now it should be 5 but I don't believe an extra 3 degrees would be causing major overheating.

I was getting only 14 degrees mechanical advance, for a total of 22 degrees by 3000 RPM.  No more advance above about 2800 or so.

When I plugged the front nipple on the vac. advance in to the ported source on the carb I got another 14 degrees for a total of 36.

This seems low to me, but I'm used to tuning American V8s and 6-cylinders from the '60s and '70s and maybe these engines have different requirements.   Old Pontiac and Chevy engines typically like around 30-36 degrees under load (no vacuum advance) and an additional 10-15 degrees from the vac. can under light load/part throttle cruising.

I tested the thermostat and it opens fully but it's a 195 degree unit.  Going to hunt down a 180 to try. 

I'm actually crossing my fingers and hoping the radiator's plugged as that would explain the overheating and be a relatively easy fix.
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- Un-cracked dash pad (do they exist?)

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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #13 on: Apr 09, 2015, 09:35:07 PM »
I don't run a pressure regulator with mine and run a holley red pump.  I have my pump on a toggle and have forgot to shut it off a time or two, and never has it run into the intake.
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #14 on: Apr 10, 2015, 08:23:51 AM »
Heh, and I even bought one of the "genuine European" Webers and not the supposedly inferior US made copy...   :shake:

any idea on what could be causing fuel to drip into the throttle bore after the engine is shut down?

Last I heard, they were made over in Spain.  But it is hard to know where stuff is being made anymore.  With China flooding the markets with copies of stuff. 

I should rebuild the one I have, and sell it. 
Miss ya Dean (4THEWKN) & Kyle (KYOTA)!!

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My build up ~ project Kilchis! http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=32961.0
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #15 on: Apr 10, 2015, 02:16:48 PM »
Hope so bro. Go with the v6 radiator though.  I think they're  aluminum.  And cool much better :thumbs:
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #16 on: Apr 10, 2015, 02:17:14 PM »
If that is the problem of coarse ^^^
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #17 on: Apr 10, 2015, 04:02:14 PM »
Just talked to the radiator shop - they said it's all plugged up and is in too bad of shape to rebuild, so new radiator time.

Will an '88 V6 radiator bolt right in or do they have different mounting points?

Thanks!
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #18 on: Apr 10, 2015, 08:14:56 PM »
They're wider,but they'll fit. And ya I'm talking about the 3.0 radiators 
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #19 on: Apr 11, 2015, 02:25:52 PM »
I took the carb apart last night and I can see no way for fuel to be leaking into the throttle bore - the casting is all one piece and it sure doesn't look porous...

I lowered the float level slightly to about 36mm and buttoned it back up.

I'm thinking maybe the overheating was causing the fuel to boil in the bowl, which can cause it to percolate through the various passages.  The engine was really getting hot.

the other possibility is over-pressure between the pump and fuel inlet.  I have the return line on the fuel pump clamped off and am running it off gas out of a can because the truck has been sitting for over 10 years and I don't want it pulling any old fuel out of the tank until I've had a chance to drop the tank and clean it up.  With the return line blocked, if the fuel in the line from pump to carb gets heated up too  much it has nowhere to go but past the seat, I'm guessing.

I got a new radiator today and also changed the thermostat to a 180 (was 195) so am going to go out now and fire it up again and see what happens.

If I still get fuel boiling issues I'm going to see if I can find one of those one piece adapters.  They look like they'd do a great job of isolating the carb from manifold heat.
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #20 on: Apr 11, 2015, 06:23:41 PM »
Thanks for the suggestion but I went with a stock replacement 'cause I could get it quick and if everything's working right it should be plenty.

Got it in along with a 180 stat and now the engine holds rock steady at 180 just running it in the driveway.  Still more work to do before I can drive it -  The truck has been sitting for over 10 years so I'm changing oil in diffs & trans and flushing the brake & clutch hydraulics.

Also need to drop the gas tank and clean it out & get rid of the old gas.  There was a leak in the rear somewhere too last time it was driven so need to track that down and fix it.

Followed the Weber lean best idle instructions and it's idling best at 3 - 3.5 turns out so idle jet is too lean.  I suspect it's overall too lean anyway since the carb is for a stock 22R and this one has a mildly ported 20R head and slightly bigger than stock cam.

I'll update the carb thread I have going with more info.
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #21 on: Apr 11, 2015, 07:08:50 PM »
New radiator and 180 stat did the trick.  Temp doesn't budge over 180 just running it in the driveway, and no more fuel dripping into the throttle bores.

Did the best lean idle adjustment per Weber instructions and truck idles best with mixture screw 3 - 3.5 turns out so idle jet is too lean.  Suspect the carb is lean overall so need to order a jet kit. 

Setup is as follows:

Air jets:
170 primary
160 secondary

Main jets:
140 primary & secondary

Idle/side jets:
60 primary
50 secondary

engine bogs real bad then takes off if you snap the throttle wide open from idle.  Revs clean to 5500 - I didn't let it run up past that.

Been reading about Weber tuning here and on various different forums and trying to get a handle on maintaining the proper relationship between air and main jet sizing and also how the secondary "idle" jet affects things.   From what I can tell, the idle/side jets are important for transition between closed & WOT and also the primary idle jet will affect part-throttle cruising.  Increasing main jet size makes the carb richer overall and the air jets can fine tune that to a degree.   I might have to invest in a wideband O2...
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #22 on: Apr 11, 2015, 07:18:42 PM »
Thanks for the suggestion but I went with a stock replacement 'cause I could get it quick and if everything's working right it should be plenty.

Got it in along with a 180 stat and now the engine holds rock steady at 180 just running it in the driveway.  Still more work to do before I can drive it -  The truck has been sitting for over 10 years so I'm changing oil in diffs & trans and flushing the brake & clutch hydraulics.

Also need to drop the gas tank and clean it out & get rid of the old gas.  There was a leak in the rear somewhere too last time it was driven so need to track that down and fix it.

Followed the Weber lean best idle instructions and it's idling best at 3 - 3.5 turns out so idle jet is too lean.  I suspect it's overall too lean anyway since the carb is for a stock 22R and this one has a mildly ported 20R head and slightly bigger than stock cam.

I'll update the carb thread I have going with more info.
I wish you the best with that gas tank dropping bro. when I first got my 80, it's also was sitting for about 10 years. and when I drop the tank the rust inside was just like the scales of a fish, and when you tilt it from side to side it sounded like a Rainmaker. I personally went with soaking the whole tank in apple cider vinegar. and this does do a better job in straight vinegar I might add. but I have heard for faster results and maybe even more effective, to do some kind of electrolyte charge to the tank. but have heard nothing but good results when done correctly and and cuts the cleaning time down from about a week worth of soaking to a couple hours worth of that charging method. Tell us what you go with.

glad it was just the radiator.  :bigthumbsup:
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #23 on: Apr 11, 2015, 07:44:57 PM »
Where did you get 15 gallons of vinegar???   :o

That's a great idea but not sure how/where to get enough vinegar.  I've also heard of cleaning with electrolysis but it would require submerging the entire tank in a vat and I don't have anything that big to put it in.

I have also de-rusted parts with phosphoric acid.  That's a lot more available - like most hardware stores and auto body supply places.  you can dilute it quite a bit with water and it still works.

Guess I'll wait and see how bad the problem is before figuring out what to do about it...  Worst case scenario is I get a tank from a parts truck.
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #24 on: Apr 11, 2015, 08:26:09 PM »
What did you use to block the ports on the top of your exhaust manifold? I have the same manifold on my 84, a PO made some block off plates that I recently resealed but one of the bolt holes is kinda stripped so I'm not sure how long it will be till it starts to leak again.

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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #25 on: Apr 11, 2015, 11:29:48 PM »
I just used a pipe tap on them and stuck some brass plugs in the holes.  I forget which size it was, but I believe 3/8 or 1/2 NPT.  Cheap, quick, easy.
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #26 on: Apr 11, 2015, 11:42:02 PM »
I got em at walmart. :greengrin:
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #27 on: Apr 11, 2015, 11:42:47 PM »
And mine was 19 gallons by the way.
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #28 on: Apr 13, 2015, 06:08:24 PM »
So, here's some data just in case anyone cares -

I talked to LCE's tech department today.  I was actually asking about jetting for my carb but the subject of timing came up so I told them what I was getting out of my dist and they told me how they set up their performance 22R distributors.

The stock dist. like mine has a 14 degree mechanical curve and a 14 degree vac can as I noted above (so at least I know it's working right).  They set their performance dist. up with a 20 degree mechanical curve and a 7 degree vac. can. They also use lighter springs to allow the advance to come in faster and recommend 10 degrees initial advance.

So, if you were to run LCE's distributor you'd have 10 initial, 30 total under load, and 37 at part throttle compared to stock settings of 5 initial, 19 under load, and 33 at part throttle.

Given that, I don't see why I couldn't just advance my dist to 10 for now and limit the vac can (should be easy).

I have a spare 20R distributor I can play around with.  The only thing I see that's really different about it is the electrical connector, and that's easy to change.
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Re: Plainview's 20/22 hybrid engine
« Reply #29 on: Apr 15, 2015, 09:53:57 AM »
You want a distributor off an early 80s Celica 22r.  They have lighter springs and different weights.
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