Topic: Trail Gear Trans mount vs OEM

[Ritchie]

For my '03 Tacoma, I recently purchased this from Trail Gear: http://www.trail-gear.com/transfer-case-mounts
It is approximately 3/4" lower in height than the OEM mount.  Installing it will lower the back of the t-case which leads to my question: Will it affect the driveline in any way?

Thanks.

[HogCanyonHopper]

you sure that will work? it says up to '95 applications for that mount. you have a W59 tranny? if so, that wont work.

[Ritchie [OP]]

I have an A340F with an inch worm lefty.
It appears 3/4" lower than OEM.  I could use a section of steel plate for a spacer and use longer bolts for the install, dunno.

I need the Trail Gear unit to rid of the twisting.  When the auto shifts into 2nd gear, the case thumps the bottom of the floorboard beneath the driver seat.

Thanks.

[jimbo74]

have you contacted trail-gear?

they have a web forum

[Ritchie [OP]]

Nah, I'll just do some fab work tomorrow on it.  It fits the t-case, no problem there, just too low when positioned on the cross member.
I should have enough time to install the motor mounts too.  That should eliminate any twisting I'm getting.

Thanks.

[rcks4me]

TG motor mounts? you'll regret it. Pure garbage  from my experience.

[BigMike]

The only thing I dislike about the TG mounts is that they use garbage bushings that are proprietary -- strange, non-standard triangular shaped bushings. The HD t/case mounts we carry have always used high quality USA-made and standard round sized Daystar or Energy Suspension bushings. I'm not sure why their mounts are not a direct replacement. I didn't know this until now.

Here is the mount we carry, made right here in California by Locktup with USA-steel and USA-made Daystar bushings (standard American size that can be found anywhere).

We even charge less than TG while supporting great American products

http://www.marlincrawler.com/armor/crossmember/crossmember-mount-hd



BigMike

[OOPS]

TG trans and engine mounts are junk. a well known TG vendor will tell you that.

[jimbo74]

so you bought a product from a company, and it doesn't fit...... sounds like their product is junk at that point. and you want to modify things until it does fit...... good luck with that, hopefully it doesn't give you problems.

[Rocksurfer]

If you have to modify something that was supposed to be a direct oem replacement then you have junk in your hands. Doesn't matter that you can fix the issue with what amounts to a band-aid.

[Rocksurfer]

The only thing I dislike about the TG mounts is that they use garbage bushings that are proprietary -- strange, non-standard triangular shaped bushings. The HD t/case mounts we carry have always used high quality USA-made and standard round sized Daystar or Energy Suspension bushings. I'm not sure why their mounts are not a direct replacement. I didn't know this until now.

Here is the mount we carry, made right here in California by Locktup with USA-steel and USA-made Daystar bushings (standard American size that can be found anywhere).

We even charge less than TG while supporting great American products

http://www.marlincrawler.com/armor/crossmember/crossmember-mount-hd



BigMike

Do these fit an 85 Auto Mike? I think mine is getting close to time for replacement.

[toyodaaddict]

isnt it true that when switching to solid mounts you need to do both  engine and tcase? iv heard that doing just one or the other  can lead to serious issues like cracked cases? i like the idea of solid mounts but i drive my truck to the trail. is anyone using 4xinnovation motor mounts? i hear there pretty good and less vibration.

[mudmaster]

isnt it true that when switching to solid mounts you need to do both  engine and tcase? iv heard that doing just one or the other  can lead to serious issues like cracked cases?

I've heard this also, but cannot confirm that it's true.

[BigMike]

Do these fit an 85 Auto Mike? I think mine is getting close to time for replacement.

Sorry RS but they only fit gear drive t/cases. I updated the webpage to make it a bit more clear.

isnt it true that when switching to solid mounts you need to do both  engine and tcase? iv heard that doing just one or the other  can lead to serious issues like cracked cases?

I can understand where you are coming from, but from many years of service/experience from companies like Front Range Off Road and 4xInnovations, the industry has found the cases are more than capable of not cracking. Probably the best argument for your scenario would be that based on how narrow the stock t/case mount is and where it is located it must be mainly intended to support the weight of the drive train whereas the engine mounts are also intended to support the torque of the drive train. However in service we do not see cases cracking. 4xInnovations as far as I know was the first to make HD t/case mounts and AFAIK they do not have any disclaimer on their website regarding this and over the years in talking with Adam and selling his mounts we've never heard him reporting cracked cases.

We are currently selling Locktup4x4's mounts because he is a close friend of ours and lives right down the highway from here. We of course are still friends with 4xInnovations and gladly offer their high quality USA-made products also. For the time being we thought it would be fun to try Locktup's mounts so that's what we got right now

is anyone using 4xinnovation motor mounts? i hear there pretty good and less vibration.

Their vibrations should be comparable to other HD mounts. They do use higher quality USA-made Daystar and/or USA-made Energy Suspension bushings which will last longer than the TG bushings, but theoretically speaking all HD mounts must be more harsh than stock.

What's nice about 4xInnovations is that they are I believe the originator of HD mounts in our industry, both t/case and engine mounts. Depending on your preferences or morals, you might discover its nice to support the founder of individual products because you can be assured they have the most amount of originality, passion, research and design to have placed their finances and family lives at risk to turn their ideas and hobbies into a successful business. This is how companies like 4xInnovations, Front Range Off Road/Diamond Axle, All Pro Off Road, Advanced Off-Road Research, Slee Off Road, Shaffer's Offroad, BudBuilt, Longfield, Inchworm, Marlin Crawler, and others, were founded and built the industry we all can enjoy today. Without a doubt this is why Trail-Gear and their copy-cat products are not respected in this industry and are bashed often, as evident in the above replies.

Marlin's Home-made "MarMount" HD Engine Mount Details
Marlinize your stock good or broken Toyota mounts with minimal cost!

Another thing you can do with your engine mounts is what Marlin does and that is to transform a factory Toyota mount into a one-way heavy duty engine mount. This has been discussed before, but essentially Marlin modifies a stock engine mount -- good or broken doesn't matter -- by passing a long bolt straight through the center of the mount taking the place of the stud that attaches to the engine bracket. This forms a solid connection between the upper and lower plates surrounding the stock rubber isolator/dampener. In this configuration the mount is unable to expand (due to the very high tensile strength of the bolt) but is able to compress (as the bolt is free to pass through the engine bracket under compression). Therefore, when used on the driver's side, which is the side that sees the most amount of torque (pulling the stock mount apart) and consequently the highest failure rate of stock mounts, Marlin's design restricts movement under acceleration -- mimicking HD mounts -- but operates like a normal mount under compression without nearly the same harshness. It's a one-way HD mount, ideal in operation as it is only "HD" in the direction of applied engine torque.

Update: I forgot to include that Marlin adds a thick nylon washer so you can torque down the nut while limiting vibrations sent through the bolt.

Marlin's idea also provides lateral support because the bolt is torqued in place with the nut thus limiting the upper and lower plates from sliding
or moving laterally about one another. This is not as rigid as a true HD mount but again it provides an additional restriction that was lacking in the stock mount. I run dual Marlin HD mounts in my truck, both of which were previously broken mounts that Marlin restored back to life. The lateral control from Marlin's modified Toyota engine mounts are so much improved that my water pump no longer contacts my electric fan when I'm in a very steep climb. It's the best of both worlds: Improved strength without the vibrations of a HD mount ... but yet only at the cost of a bolt and a few washers!

Marlin even carries spare parts to rebuild broken mounts on the trail using his improved design:


Seen here holding the now Marlin-ized rebuilt stock broken mount ready to be reinstalled. The threaded stud you see is not a stud at all, rather it is Marlin's long one-piece thru-mount bolt joining the two engine mount plates together:


Update: Badnewsbob has started a How-To thread for Marlin's Home-made HD Mount with pictures, check it out here: http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=95884


Regards,
BigMike

[Rocksurfer]

Sorry RS but they only fit gear drive t/cases. I updated the webpage to make it a bit more clear.

[84Flatbed]

you sure that will work? it says up to '95 applications for that mount.

This is the problem, wrong application.

so you bought a product from a company, and it doesn't fit...... sounds like their product is junk at that point. and you want to modify things until it does fit...... good luck with that, hopefully it doesn't give you problems.

If you have to modify something that was supposed to be a direct oem replacement then you have junk in your hands. Doesn't matter that you can fix the issue with what amounts to a band-aid.

The product is not intended for the op's vehicle and has nothing to do with who makes it. He would have the same problem with Marlins. It sounds like the op is just trying to make it work even though its not meant to be a direct replacement for his vehicle.

[Cheesemaker]

One thing I found with the Aftermarket solid T-Case mount, is you want to use it with a aftermarket steel plate T-Case crossmember.  Because of the factory T-Case crossmember is hollow, and stamped steel, the vibrations reverberate horribly.  I have a Marlin HD T-Case mount, and it wasn't in my rig more than a week with the factory crossmember. 

[BigMike]

Good observation Cheesy, thanks!

[toyodaaddict]

BigMike, about marlins motor mounts. is the new bolt need to be welded to the mount at all? and do you know what size bolt is used? if not ill figure it out. thanks for the info moded mounts sound like the way to go.

[OOPS]

BigMike, about marlins motor mounts. is the new bolt need to be welded to the mount at all? and do you know what size bolt is used? if not ill figure it out. thanks for the info moded mounts sound like the way to go.

No welding and I think I used a 1/2 inch bolt when I did it on a friends rig.

[BigMike]

OOPS is correct. I don't know the measurements myself, will need to ask Marlin or go measure the bolts from his collection of broken mount parts. I think he also machines or grinds the bolt head down a bit so that it will fit onto the frame pad/mount. On my setup I have custom frame pad/mounts (for my 3RZ conversion) and they were flat pieces of steel. I therefore had to torch a small hole at the center of each pad so that the bolt head wouldn't interfere with anything.

The hardest part of the job is drilling through the stock Toyota rubber. The drill bit will get hot and will want to wander so you'll need to be patient to not overheat it and to try to keep it straight. The rubber will swell once the drill bit is removed, so you might have to drill 1 or 2 sizes over. How ever Marlin does it, the bolt fits so tight that we run it down into the mount with an air gun, using the bolt's threads to help pass the bolt through the rubber. If you have a nice, tight fit like that then you are guaranteed good performance as everything will be nice and tight.

Also, because the bolt head will be inaccessible -- tightening down only with the nut just like the normal Toyota mount where the nut is tightened down onto the stud of the stock mount -- so if you keep it tight then once the nut starts preloading the mount the rubber will compress and hold the bolt tight. I don't know what Marlin torques the nut to but the bolt itself never ever moves just from all the resistance of the rubber. You could weld the bolt head to the mount ... but I'd say it's not necessary and the heat might not be friendly to the stock rubber.

BigMike


EDIT: Meant to type "nut" not bolt.

[toyodaaddict]

thanks for taking the time to type out all that info. ill be putting it to good use for sure. and when im done ill order up a couple of them hd tcase mounts from 

[Ritchie [OP]]

The only thing I dislike about the TG mounts is that they use garbage bushings that are proprietary -- strange, non-standard triangular shaped bushings. The HD t/case mounts we carry have always used high quality USA-made and standard round sized Daystar or Energy Suspension bushings. I'm not sure why their mounts are not a direct replacement. I didn't know this until now.

Here is the mount we carry, made right here in California by Locktup with USA-steel and USA-made Daystar bushings (standard American size that can be found anywhere).

We even charge less than TG while supporting great American products

http://www.marlincrawler.com/armor/crossmember/crossmember-mount-hd

Thanks for the heads up Big Mike.
I will call and order it today... will it be possible to actually speak with you?  I have a specific issue we need to talk about.

Thanks again.



BigMike

[Ritchie [OP]]

The product is not intended for the op's vehicle and has nothing to do with who makes it. He would have the same problem with Marlins. It sounds like the op is just trying to make it work even though its not meant to be a direct replacement for his vehicle.
[/quote]

You are correct.
It would work if my cross member were 1" forward from where it is now. Since all searches lead me nowhere for an HD mount for a 2003 w/ auto trans, I figured I could begin with this.

Thanks.

[BadnewsBob]

Don't kill me for this folks. I learned about Marlin after I found trail gear......I have several trail gear parts on my truck None have failed yet, Yet I said, don't know if they will or not at this point.
 All that being said, I just put the TG mounts on my truck that I bought about 4 years ago because my stock ones wear really in bad shape.
They have fixed all the problems I was having with the motor/tranny twisting around under there. BUT. They transfer every sound and vibration my heep makes right into your head!  I am gonna do a Marlin mod to my stockers and put them back in. The tranny mount may stay, I made my own round tube trans mount and it has bushings where it mounts to the frame, We'll see how that works.

I would like to maybe see some close up pictures and a good write up on what he is doing. Maybe a sticky even.
That doesn't matter thou because I am drilling and putting bolts in. Just would be good to know.

[BigMike]

I'll have to see about some pictures and additional details on the Marlinized stock mounts.

* BigMike adds this to his very, very small TO-DO list which is almost always empty.

[BadnewsBob]

I'll have to see about some pictures and additional details on the Marlinized stock mounts.

* BigMike adds this to his very, very small TO-DO list which is almost always empty.

You love it!  But seriously Mike.....You are doing a great job in my eyes.

[Ritchie [OP]]

The only thing I dislike about the TG mounts is that they use garbage bushings that are proprietary -- strange, non-standard triangular shaped bushings. The HD t/case mounts we carry have always used high quality USA-made and standard round sized Daystar or Energy Suspension bushings. I'm not sure why their mounts are not a direct replacement. I didn't know this until now.

Here is the mount we carry, made right here in California by Locktup with USA-steel and USA-made Daystar bushings (standard American size that can be found anywhere).

We even charge less than TG while supporting great American products

http://www.marlincrawler.com/armor/crossmember/crossmember-mount-hd



BigMike

Wow... did I receive this quick after I ordered.  Thanks Big Mike.
Over the holidays, I also received the TG crossmember/ skid including hardware that I will install once I get my trans issues squared away.

Here is a story preface:
It seems the trans shop installed the wrong torque converter after I had my newly acquired A340F re-built/ installed. All was fine until the 1st new converter internally grenaded, plugging the filter which while driving, I ended up coasting into a vacant parking lot and waiting for a tow truck... that sucked.

The shop repaired it on their dime but, I ended up with the wrong converter.
Once this is complete, I will install the newly acquired TC mount & other goods.  I would like a set of Marlin's 3RZ modified OEM  motor mounts Big Mike, hint, hint.

Thanks for the replies.

[BigMike]

*hint* *hint* *nudge* *nudge* *wink* *wink* Say no more!

[yamxer438]

Just bought one of Marlins red trans mounts and can't find a bolt that will thread into the skid plate holes. Are they a special size or just too much paint in the hole?