Topic: possible bad throwout bearing?

[BLACKDOG]

Since I put my new engine in, my transmission has shifted kinda strange.  Recently, a slight squeal started, and it happens whenver I ease the clutch off, going into first.  Now it does it quite a bit, in all the gears, and it is actually pretty loud.  It actually sounds as if something is draggin on the flywheel or something along those lines.  I am not sure what it is?  any help?

[RUGER]

when dose it do it...with foot on the clutch....off the clutch in neutral...with it under power. sounds like throwout or pilot bearing.

happy trails
rich *ruger*  

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

foot on the clutch, right at the point of clutch applying pressure to the flywheel.  today it sounded like it was doing it while under power, but i was on the free way so i couldnt tell.  but it is getting louder quickly

[BigMike]

If a bad release bearing (throwout) is intalled properlly, then it will only make sound when the clutch is in use, ie pedal movement; with the clutch released, the noise would go away.

I would be more willing to say its your pilot bearing, however I don't know what one sounds like as I've never driven a truck that had a bad pilot bearing. If it is the pilot, then you better fix it before it seezes up and takes your transmission input gear with it!!

BigMike

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

If a bad release bearing (throwout) is intalled properlly, then it will only make sound when the clutch is in use, ie pedal movement; with the clutch released, the noise would go away.

I would be more willing to say its your pilot bearing, however I don't know what one sounds like as I've never driven a truck that had a bad pilot bearing. If it is the pilot, then you better fix it before it seezes up and takes your transmission input gear with it!!

BigMike

thanks   I had my clutch done last year and I have a year warranty on it, which includes a free check/adjustment at 12 mos. so I am gonna take it in and have them check it why not, its free.  Then I will prolly fix it, unless it is cheap

[RUGER]

mine makes a sound like sand paper rubbing together. it is under load...when i stab the cluth and rev it the noise goes away untill i re-engauge it.

i already lost 1 input gear...but that was a couple years ago. and the piolet has since been replaced...i'm pretty shure it has...i have lost track, i've done quite a few cluch jobs.

happy trails
rich *ruger*

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

I dont wanna lose any gears or anything    Is there anyway that I could figure out which bearing it is?  or would it be better for me to just replace both? and how do you do that?

[WHITE_TRASH]

Ummm did you put a new pilot bearing in it?  Im gonna guess you didnt and now its biting you straight in the arse.....

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

Ummm did you put a new pilot bearing in it?  Im gonna guess you didnt and now its biting you straight in the arse.....

sounds about right, story of my life

Is that something you should do everytime you take the tranny out or pull the engine?

[RUGER]

the pilot is in the back of the engine...where the nose of the imput shaft rides. the throwout is on the cluth fork.

happy trails
rich *ruger*  

[WHITE_TRASH]

YES  Its only about $10.  I change them everytime I pull the engine or trans unless its only been few thousand miles.

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

YES  Its only about $10.  I change them everytime I pull the engine or trans unless its only been few thousand miles.

now you tell me   So what do I need to do?

[RUGER]

unbolt slave cylinder from tranny. remove shifters and drivelines, unbolt and pull the tranny. remove the clutch and pressure plate assembly. remove pilot bearnign...put new one in. put the pressure plate assembly back on...re-allign the cluch...stab tranny and rebolt it...install shifters and drivelines, bolt slave cylinder back on.

happy trails
rich *ruger*

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

do you have to press out the pilot, or does it just pull out ?

[RUGER]

do you have to press out the pilot, or does it just pull out ?

its more of a slide hammer job. BUT i've packed grease behind it and put a bolt thats an rch smaller than the id of the pilot and hit it with a hammer. you might have to keep repacking the grease untill it comes out.

happy trails
rich *ruger*   

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

my apartment complex is gonna love me

[RUGER]

than they can give me a huge hug fer me helping you...and you know i love to get dirty.

happy trails
rich *ruger*   

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

than they can give me a huge hug fer me helping you...and you know i love to get dirty.

happy trails
rich *ruger*   

Well, sunday afternoon, you wanna come over and do some wrenchin?

[BigMike]

Just take advantage of your 1 year warranty.

If you want to do it yourself, drop the transmission and remove the pressure plate and clutch disk from your flywheel. The pilot bearing is pressed into the back of the crankshaft and is visible right at the center of the flywheel. You will need a special pilot bearing puller to yank it out. But first feel it. If it feels gritty, then its junk. If it spins really easily and keeps spinning by itself for a couple of seconds, then replace it. It should feel like a newly greased bearing.

The input of your transmission has splines on it. These splines are what connects the clutch disk to the transmission as the clutch disk has the matching female splines on it. Also the tranny input shaft has a polished heat treated surface at the very tip, and this stub is what plugs into the pilot bearing.. So the transmission input shaft fits through the clutch disk and beyond that it plugs into the pilot bearing which is located right at the back of the crankshaft. You got it? Good

So if the pilot bearing seizes up, when you activate the clutch, the engine is still spinning, but now you've disconnected the transmission from the engine and the transmission input is no longer spinning. So now the pilot bearing comes into play because you have the crankshaft that is spinning but the transmission input that is not. And if the pilot bearing locks up, then as the clutch is activated, the pilot bearing, since it no longer moves, actually tries to lock the transmission to the crankshaft. But since the little stub is polished and is has a very small diameter (maybe 10mm), it isn't enough to power the drive train by itself, so the two parts strip each other out. Now since the trans input is heat treated, it will make a terrible and horrendous squealing sound, get extremely hot really quick, and then will melt through the heat treated area and down into the softer core area of the input. Then it will be able to rotate freely of the frozen pilot bearing but it will make alot of noise, and the trans input will no longer be supported by the crankshaft, and as the clutch is used, it will place alot of side load all onto the transmission input bearing, and now the life span of the transmission input bearing is considerably reduced.

Oh what fun

[BigMike]

dang, in the time it took me to write that you guys have been engaged in a meaningfull conversation

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

My only problem about what you just said mike, was that i didnt get a word of it

I live in Sac, but the place that did the work is in Vacaville 45 miles away, and according to what you said, if i understood correctly, im already tearig the input shaft apart, and stripping stuff right?

[BigMike]

No, only when the pilot locks up. Between a worn out pilot bearing and a locked up pilot bearing, at the moment, little to no damage is being done. But you need to get it checked out sooner than later-

BigMike

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

so when exactly does it lock up?  so you think it would be fine drving the 40 miles to get it checked??

[BigMike]

drive and find out

Honestly I have no idea, if its been driving fine so far it should be just fine. But if it makes a REALLY REALLY loud squealing noise, either turn up the radio or turn the engine off immediately and get it towed. Don't even let it idle unless you keep the transmission in gear the the t/case in neutral.

BigMike

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

drive and find out

Honestly I have no idea, if its been driving fine so far it should be just fine. But if it makes a REALLY REALLY loud squealing noise, either turn up the radio or turn the engine off immediately and get it towed. Don't even let it idle unless you keep the transmission in gear the the t/case in neutral.

BigMike

gee thanks for all the help 



 

[RUGER]

if you still want to do it sun that will work(the warrenty might be the way to go, you could at least call them).
do you still got that jack...it makes things easyer(if it can reach high enough...wood blocks help but it gets ghetto).
i do have some hw that i need to get done...i'm gonna teach an aussie how to drive a right hand drive tomorrow around 1400.

edit: i'll be teaching left hand drive(whatever we use here in the states )...my bad. they'll be renting a car over spring break so i might as well let them get used to driving on the oppisite side of the road than their used to.

happy trails
rich *ruger*  

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

if you still want to do it sun that will work(the warrenty might be the way to go, you could at least call them).
do you still got that jack...it makes things easyer(if it can reach high enough...wood blocks help but it gets ghetto).
i do have some hw that i need to get done...i'm gonna teach an aussie how to drive a right hand drive tomorrow around 1400.

happy trails
rich *ruger*  

I'm gonna call the place tommorow, see what they say

[BigMike]

Oh another thing, 40 miles sounds like highway miles. If you are not using the clutch, then the pilot bearing is not in use. So just get up to speed and then cruise for as long as you can in 5th without changing gears for as long as possible.

If you are worried about it, the best thing to do would be to use the clutch as little as possible for the least amount of time.

During red lights, keep it in neutral and don't use the clutch. <-- Pilot bearing not in use.

When you are cruising the engine is locked to the transmission via the clutch anyways. <-- Pilot bearing not in use.

So in the worst situation, I would accelerate in first for longer than normal and then shift into third. Then stay in third for longer than normal and then shift into fifth. This way the pilot bearing is only being used 2 times to advance 5 gears.

BigMike

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

cool thanks, I didnt know that  And yes, the 40 miles is highway

[BigMike]

This has got to be the fastest growing post in the history of the forum. 28+ posts in about an hour is nearly one post every other minuet 8)

But I wanted to say that this reminds me of when I was taking my driver training. The instructor told me that when even I come to a stop, I should IMMEDIATELY shift into 1st gear and wait for the green light. I told him that if you do that, then you are putting unnecessary hours onto the pilots and release bearings and its not a good practice. He said he didn't care and everyone should always be idling at a red light with the clutch activated and the trans in first gear..

Well of course I know why he is teaching that: because most beginning drivers would freak out and not know what to do if a tree was going to fall onto their car and they were in neutral. They would just hit the gas and go no where, or they would have to think, "ok which pedal is the clutch, oh oh oh where is first gear!"

But come on, if you are driving a manual, then you've gotta be quick for any situation. DUH. Anyways, Marlin taught me correctly when I learned how to drive stick shift when I was 12, always leave the trans in neutral and rest the clutch and bearings. Get more life out of all the parts, including the pressure plate.

Also did you know that its best for the syncros if you delay before engaging into gear after the truck has been in neutral? For instance, if you are at a red light, then you should have the trans in neutral and the clutch disengaged. Then when you see that the lights are changing and yours is about to go green, or if you are a ways back in traffic, you should activate the clutch -- but then wait until the last moment -- to shift into first gear. This gives all of the gears and shafts time to slow down and stop spinning before you slide the shift hubs over the syncros and onto the gears.

Now the syncros do not have to do any work at all and you get more life outta them

BigMike