Author Topic: Welding with CO2?  (Read 17558 times)

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superyota

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Welding with CO2?
« on: Jan 18, 2011, 09:01:35 AM »
Has anyone used straight CO2 for shielding gas?  How does it compare to C-25(75%CO2/25%Ar)?  do you need to run some sort of humidity separater inline for CO2?  How much does weld quality change between the two?  I already have a couple of CO2 bottles, only reason why i'm thinking of going this route vs. buying another cylinder.  Any info would be great. :gap:
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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #1 on: Jan 18, 2011, 09:41:19 AM »
I've been using CO2 for welding for years witout any problems (including the the whole front end suspension setup on my truck).  Reason for me is price (monopoly actually on propper welding gases up here, only one company sells them, and only rents out the containers at a redicilus price).
Probably not as clean as using propper gas (or strong), but who cares when your welds are way longer and stronger than any factory weld on the truck anyway.
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86bobbedtoy

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #2 on: Jan 18, 2011, 09:42:40 AM »
I use it straight,
welds look the same but a little less shinny,
my tank with gas 42.00
my tank with co2  8.00

its not a whole lot, but I tend to go through alot.

I have actually noticed alot of exhaust shops using it

superyota [OP]

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #3 on: Jan 18, 2011, 09:45:41 AM »
I thought co2 was actually better to use for thick steel because it lets the weld burn hotter and penetrate more?  does anyone have pics of a weld using co2?
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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #4 on: Jan 18, 2011, 10:27:21 AM »
:eye:

junya92toy

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #5 on: Jan 18, 2011, 11:18:10 AM »
I've been using CO2 for welding for years witout any problems (including the the whole front end suspension setup on my truck).  Reason for me is price (monopoly actually on propper welding gases up here, only one company sells them, and only rents out the containers at a redicilus price).
Probably not as clean as using propper gas (or strong), but who cares when your welds are way longer and stronger than any factory weld on the truck anyway.

The strength is the same comparing 75/25 to co2. The strength is the wire rating.
Dr.Maxwe001 – well i have a 15 gal compressor now and if I gett he 60  and then use the 15 as a reserve that wil give me 75 gal  thats close to 80 isnt it ?

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #6 on: Jan 18, 2011, 11:30:15 AM »
What about the difference in penatration? I've been told that CO2 creates a 1/2 circle where the mix makes a canyon.

junya92toy

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #7 on: Jan 18, 2011, 11:43:10 AM »
What about the difference in penatration? I've been told that CO2 creates a 1/2 circle where the mix makes a canyon.
Penetration is very miss understood. C02 penetrates more, because the arc is a little hotter. Its hard to explain without showing, but most welds, the strength is in the weld re-enforcment itself, not how much it penetrates. And its how you prepare the plates that give you penetration.
Dr.Maxwe001 – well i have a 15 gal compressor now and if I gett he 60  and then use the 15 as a reserve that wil give me 75 gal  thats close to 80 isnt it ?

superyota [OP]

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #8 on: Jan 18, 2011, 11:44:57 AM »
so will CO2 work good then, besides a little spatter, for welding up suspension parts?
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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #9 on: Jan 18, 2011, 11:50:32 AM »
Yes it will, its just as strong and welds just as good as 75-25, Ive passed bend tests using c02
Dr.Maxwe001 – well i have a 15 gal compressor now and if I gett he 60  and then use the 15 as a reserve that wil give me 75 gal  thats close to 80 isnt it ?

superyota [OP]

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #10 on: Jan 18, 2011, 12:02:30 PM »
sweet.  that answers my question.  I'll give the CO2 a shot, if I don't like it, maybe I'll see about trading out my bottle for a gas bottle.  Thanks
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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #11 on: Jan 18, 2011, 05:01:15 PM »
Its hard to explain without showing, but most welds, the strength is in the weld re-enforcment itself, not how much it penetrates.

  that's interesting, I've been taught the complete opposite. lol
a strong weld should be fully penetrated with weld reinforcement no more than an 1/8''.
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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #12 on: Jan 18, 2011, 05:05:25 PM »

  that's interesting, I've been taught the complete opposite. lol
a strong weld should be fully penetrated with weld reinforcement no more than an 1/8''.

You got taught wrong. A fillet weld pretty much has zero penetration at the root, so if you are welding say 1/2inch plate to 1/2inch, you need a 1/2 inch weld.
Dr.Maxwe001 – well i have a 15 gal compressor now and if I gett he 60  and then use the 15 as a reserve that wil give me 75 gal  thats close to 80 isnt it ?

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #13 on: Jan 18, 2011, 08:48:47 PM »
 Ha ha maybe you're fillets have zero penetration at the root! lol jk
Yes a weld should be equal to or slightly thicker than the base metal. and if you look at a cross section of the effective throat of a fillet there's a good amount of penetration.
 So its weld reinforcement and not complete joint penetration that holds our pipelines, pressure vessels and skyscrapers together?


 
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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #14 on: Jan 18, 2011, 08:53:36 PM »
Not all welding done is 100% pen. And it depends on the weld joint if its 100% or not. Or the welding code.
Dr.Maxwe001 – well i have a 15 gal compressor now and if I gett he 60  and then use the 15 as a reserve that wil give me 75 gal  thats close to 80 isnt it ?

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #15 on: Jan 19, 2011, 08:52:10 AM »
not trying to open another can of worms here but if your welding something that goes on the road around me i hope your at least trying to get 100% penetration on your welds.
the nugget does provide most of the strength but penetration holds it to the steel

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #16 on: Jan 19, 2011, 08:56:59 AM »
You dont understand what penetration in a weld is then. When you lay a bead down, it does not "penetrate" all the way through the metal. It might melt, say 1/8th of a inch at the most. But as long as you have fusion, that fillet weld will be as strong as the base metal. Its one of the reasons why you run mutli pass welds on butt welds that do require full penetration welds. A damascus knife blade is layers and layers of steel welded on the microscopic level, but yet they do not seperate apart, because you have fusion.
If you could take 2 pieces of steel and put them in a t joint, like you would do to a fillet weld and rub them together to melt the end of the vertical piece, you would have a full pen weld on the micro level. This is a actual welding process too, friction welding.
« Last Edit: Jan 19, 2011, 09:07:26 AM by junya92toy »
Dr.Maxwe001 – well i have a 15 gal compressor now and if I gett he 60  and then use the 15 as a reserve that wil give me 75 gal  thats close to 80 isnt it ?

superyota [OP]

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #17 on: Jan 19, 2011, 09:52:55 AM »
great info junya.  thanks for the replies and clarification.
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superyota [OP]

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #18 on: Jan 20, 2011, 02:18:48 PM »
Anyone know if praxair will let me swap out my co2 for a c-25 bottle, and if they do, is there a fee? 
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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #19 on: Jan 20, 2011, 03:00:50 PM »
I'm sure theses folks can answer that question... http://www.praxair.com/
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superyota [OP]

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #20 on: Jan 20, 2011, 03:02:54 PM »
i'll call them as soon as I get off work.  thanks
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The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
-- Winston Churchill

Censorship, that most subtle tool of oppression, the tool of the fearful and small minded. 8/15/2008

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superyota [OP]

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #22 on: Jan 20, 2011, 03:10:26 PM »
Good info.  Thanks!  Thats a good site. 
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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #23 on: Jan 20, 2011, 03:30:15 PM »
Anyone know if praxair will let me swap out my co2 for a c-25 bottle, and if they do, is there a fee? 

They may actually be the same bottle......

Just a different label........

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #24 on: Jan 20, 2011, 03:34:23 PM »
I ran out of argon/co2 and used co2 for a short time and found straight co2 welded ok but my main complaint was it seemed like I couldnt control the heat as well.  As soon as I went back to argon my welds were great again.  Personally in a pinch its fine but I would prefer argon 100% of the time. 

superyota [OP]

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #25 on: Jan 26, 2011, 08:22:14 AM »
I finally made to the nearest supply store yesterday, airgas, and to swap my 20lb co2 bottle out for a 50 cubic c25 bottle filled was $29.  The bottle looked super small, smaller than my 20lb co2 bottle.  I talked to the guy a bit and he told me the c25 bottle would last longer because it had 2000lbs of pressure in vs. the co2 which was about 800.  The last few times I'v hooked my regulator up to any of my co2 bottles, the read right around 1200-1400 lbs.  i asked how much to step up to the bigger 4ft+ tall bottle, and it was an additional $100.  So i stuck with the co2 for now.  if I don't like it, maybe i'll consider swapping. 

from everything i've read, co2 lasts alot longer than a c25 bottle the same size because co2 is in a liquid form and expands, vs. the c25 which is gas.  whats this about the c25 being at 2000lbs of pressure and lasting longer?  is it true?
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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #26 on: Jan 26, 2011, 09:05:02 AM »
The main thing with straight co2 is that you tend to run higher nozzle pressure.  I run 30-35 with argon and 45or more with co2.
Hey Eddie give me a call.  I might have a large c25 bottle you can pick up pretty cheap.   
Looks like I wont be able to afford KOH this year since its gonna cost around 200.00 for fuel + food ect. 

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #27 on: Jan 26, 2011, 09:25:08 AM »
I run 15-25 psi
never seemed to help to have more pressure, except if Im welding out in the wind

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #28 on: Jan 26, 2011, 09:28:38 AM »
First thing, 20 pounds of co2 is about the same as a 160 cf cylinder.  The pressure inside the cylinder doesnt matter, cubic feet is cubic feet. 20 lbs of c02 would last just as long as a 160cf cylinder if the cfh outlet flow is set to the same.

With a home welder, like a 110volt mig or 220 mig, you only really need to run 15-20 cfh. You could run less, you could run more depending on if you get the correct coverage, if you do with less gas do it.

I only run 30-35 or 45 and more with a big big welders, 1/16th dualshield wire or larger.  To be honest I dont even think it was that much gas either.
Dr.Maxwe001 – well i have a 15 gal compressor now and if I gett he 60  and then use the 15 as a reserve that wil give me 75 gal  thats close to 80 isnt it ?

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Re: Welding with CO2?
« Reply #29 on: Jan 26, 2011, 09:29:31 AM »
I run 15-25 psi
never seemed to help to have more pressure, except if Im welding out in the wind

Too much pressure can cause porosity too, it can cause turbulance and suck in air.
Dr.Maxwe001 – well i have a 15 gal compressor now and if I gett he 60  and then use the 15 as a reserve that wil give me 75 gal  thats close to 80 isnt it ?

 
 
 
 
 

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