Author Topic: Failed Emissions (with test results)- Need Help (Read 5958 times)

Matty · « **on:** Sep 10, 2009, 05:46:59 PM »

went to emissions today and this is what i got

HC GPM- Limit 4.0000 - Reading 9.6345
CO GPM- Limit 40.0000- Reading 134.7866

CO2 GPM- 217.9429 No Limit?
NOx GPM- Limit- 6.0000- Reading 0.3806

I did the headgasket this summer on the truck and everything appeared fine, cleaned the plenum, had the injectors flow tested and cleaned, it has a cat on it, i re-adjusted the timing yesterday before this and it seems to be running fine at 12degrees, also pulled the spark plugs today and they looked great

the motor is slightly built and im not sure how much this is affecting it.

MSD Ignition, TRD stage II cam, LC streetperformer head.

I need this thing to pass soon. Any ideas how to make it pass and why it is so far off?

crazykooter · « **Reply #1 on:** Sep 10, 2009, 08:17:25 PM »

HC's is unburnt fuel so my guess is a dead cylinder. Most likely when you adjusted the valves after headgasket you have one too tight and its creating a dead cylinder. Readjust your valves very loose. Like clacking loose then drive it for a few days. It will clean out the carbon build up and allow the valve to fully seat again. Just to check for any other problems I would do a compression check on it.

b0x · « **Reply #2 on:** Sep 10, 2009, 08:28:18 PM »

Your specs are crazy bad. Seems like another run adjusting the valves. Check the EFI control module possibly.

Can you smell fuel when checking the spark plugs?

Matty · « **Reply #3 on:** Sep 10, 2009, 08:36:19 PM »

Quote from: b0x on Sep 10, 2009, 08:28:18 PM

Your specs are crazy bad. What has the maintenance been like recently? Have you done a standard or indepth tune-up recently?

This would all have a great change in your emissions results.

I have been fairly on top of it. I re-adjusted the valves less than a month ago, check spark plugs they were fine, I just did the timing yesterday, spark plug wires are new, cap and rotor are new, oil less than 2,000 mi ago. After this fail im going back through everything again though. Im starting to think about checking out the wiring on the O2 sensor again and the AFM and signal to the ECU. I really don't understand why it is this bad. The truck seems to be running fine and ive been driving it for a couple weeks now.

tkonueter · « **Reply #4 on:** Sep 10, 2009, 08:54:04 PM »

*couple months now

kmzeidler · « **Reply #5 on:** Sep 11, 2009, 06:41:07 PM »

HC means unburnt fuel and usually a misfire indicator. CO is indication of how rich it is running. And in this case pig rich.. noticed your fuel mileage is probably crap right now. From your results it looks like a dead cyl either compression, ignition, fuel related.

I would do a cylinder balance test and check for the rpm drop. Either by pulling a plug wire one at a time or an injector. (plugs should be ok and easier 22r/re)

If you find one doesn't do much than do a leak down test after that.

If you have a vacuum gauge your going to want to run check cranking vacuum and idle vacuum. idle you should 17-22in HG. i forget wtf cranking should be doing.

So
Cylinder balance test
Vacuum at idle
Compression and leakdown

Also to make sure your cat is working looking for atleast a 100degree difference between inlet and outlet

Post all your numbers from the test and i'll give you the lambda and AFR.

myyota · « **Reply #6 on:** Sep 11, 2009, 11:30:16 PM »

Shouldn`t the timming be at 5 degrees BTDC ?, not 12 degrees ?.

emsvitil · « **Reply #7 on:** Sep 11, 2009, 11:52:49 PM »

It's 5 with the test connector shorted.

Comes out to 12 without it shorted...

BCD · « **Reply #8 on:** Sep 14, 2009, 02:19:30 PM »

try taking it down to the emissions place and retard the timing to 0* in the parking lot when you get there. Should pass, then bump it back up when you leave. it's what I have to do and it works like a champ. oddly they run cleaner when they run poorly.

MC387 · « **Reply #9 on:** Sep 14, 2009, 03:35:52 PM »

Is it carb or injected. Does it have air injection. If so, I would make sure that it is working corectly. If it is I would look at your cat. If it is carbed you could also lean it out a bit. It would help to know the o2 reading. Carbed trucks with air injuction run rich. If the AI or the Cat is bad you can see numbers like that.

Matty · « **Reply #10 on:** Sep 14, 2009, 07:33:12 PM »

its fuel injected

Matty · « **Reply #11 on:** Sep 15, 2009, 01:30:21 PM »

Quote from: kmzeidler on Sep 11, 2009, 06:41:07 PM

HC means unburnt fuel and usually a misfire indicator. CO is indication of how rich it is running. And in this case pig rich.. noticed your fuel mileage is probably crap right now. From your results it looks like a dead cyl either compression, ignition, fuel related.

I would do a cylinder balance test and check for the rpm drop. Either by pulling a plug wire one at a time or an injector. (plugs should be ok and easier 22r/re)

If you find one doesn't do much than do a leak down test after that.

If you have a vacuum gauge your going to want to run check cranking vacuum and idle vacuum. idle you should 17-22in HG. i forget wtf cranking should be doing.

So
Cylinder balance test
Vacuum at idle
Compression and leakdown

Also to make sure your cat is working looking for atleast a 100degree difference between inlet and outlet

Post all your numbers from the test and i'll give you the lambda and AFR.

Cylinder Balance test they all dropped exactly the same. I set the idle at 1000rpms and they all dropped to 750rpm and stayed there steadily.

Vacuum at idle was 17in. on the dot.

Compression - I couldn't do a leakdown test so i did compression.

Cylinder 1- 142psi
Cylinder 2- 139psi
Cylinder 3- 145psi
Cylinder 4- 138psi

nothing there seems out of the ordinary....

I havent gotten a chance to test the temp of the cat because I don't have a way to yet, but that couldn't be the only problem right?

Matty · « **Reply #12 on:** Sep 15, 2009, 01:45:53 PM »

I also just re-adjusted the valves this morning a little looser. I checked the spark plugs yesterday when I did the compression test and I could smell a little gas. They were fouled a little bit but they really didn't look too bad. They were all dry except for cylinder 4 was slighty wet but i mean very slighty. It was barely noticeable, but i think it was obvious that thing is running rich already.

I'm gonna start checking the ECU today to see if the 02, TPS, AFM yada yada are all working correctly. That seems like one of the last things it could be. Is it possible that the MSD box could be causing some of these issues? Is anyone else running one of these?

as for the other numbers on the test here they are... i also edited them into the first post

CO2 GPM- 217.9429
NOx GPM- 0.3806 Limit- 6.0000

emsvitil · « **Reply #13 on:** Sep 15, 2009, 03:16:27 PM »

I'm running an MSD 6A without any problems.

I've heard that the multiple sparks can help with emissions........

What gap are you running on the plugs? You can go larger with the MSD (.044)

Also, some low readings with compression are due to the compression tester. The valve is a tire valve, and it takes some pressure to open them. I've had compression gauges read 25lbs low until I found a looser tire valve (hook up to your air compressor to test)

Matty · « **Reply #14 on:** Sep 15, 2009, 03:41:09 PM »

Quote from: emsvitil on Sep 15, 2009, 03:16:27 PM

I'm running an MSD 6A without any problems.

I've heard that the multiple sparks can help with emissions........

What gap are you running on the plugs? You can go larger with the MSD (.044)

Also, some low readings with compression are due to the compression tester. The valve is a tire valve, and it takes some pressure to open them. I've had compression gauges read 25lbs low until I found a looser tire valve (hook up to your air compressor to test)

i am running the plugs at .044 now with the same MSD 6A. I wasn't too worried about compression being an issue because of how close they are and the tester is pretty old so im sure its a little off. I was just glad not to see one way off.

Matty · « **Reply #15 on:** Sep 15, 2009, 03:42:32 PM »

oh also wanted to post this here for reference. i missed this when i searched because i wasn't searching for smog, but there are some very good tips in here.

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=1119.0

Matty · « **Reply #16 on:** Sep 16, 2009, 08:39:38 AM »

does anyone have a wiring diagram for the 02 sensor on an '85? I can't seem to find it anywhere in my FSM.

Found this, but it says both of these connectors are "testing" connectors.

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/index.shtml#TimingCheckConnector

MC387 · « **Reply #17 on:** Sep 16, 2009, 09:48:31 AM »

Do they not measure the o2 levels when they test in your state? If the o2 levels are high, then the cat could be your problem. What do you need to know about the o2 sensor. The grey shieled witre goes straight from the sensor to the ecm. The round 2 wire plug, usually has a cap taped on, is the o2 sensor test connector. That is it, besides the grounded shield.

emsvitil · « **Reply #18 on:** Sep 16, 2009, 11:01:51 AM »

An leak at the exhaust manifold could let in air in to the exhaust.

The O2 sensor sees the extra air and compensates by enrichening the mixture.....................

NATER623 · « **Reply #19 on:** Sep 16, 2009, 11:52:32 AM »

when your injectors were serviced did you have the cold sart injector done as well? The cold start injector can leak. Have you opened up your AFM and moved the spring wheel? if you have moved it, move it back to sock. does the vehicle have any abnormal symptoms while driving?

Matty · « **Reply #20 on:** Sep 16, 2009, 03:33:33 PM »

Quote from: MC387 on Sep 16, 2009, 09:48:31 AM

Do they not measure the o2 levels when they test in your state? If the o2 levels are high, then the cat could be your problem. What do you need to know about the o2 sensor. The grey shieled witre goes straight from the sensor to the ecm. The round 2 wire plug, usually has a cap taped on, is the o2 sensor test connector. That is it, besides the grounded shield.

I was kind of hoping for pics or something. I want to be positive that the 02 is wired correctly. The wire from the sensor to the ECU is what im looking for.

Also according to 4Crawlers Website the 2 wire plug is to jump for the timing. The larger (3 wire) connector has the ECU O2 circuit test voltages, such as the Vf signal. And the small round one-wire connector has the O2 sensor voltage for testing purposes.

Matty · « **Reply #21 on:** Sep 16, 2009, 03:34:54 PM »

Quote from: NATER623 on Sep 16, 2009, 11:52:32 AM

when your injectors were serviced did you have the cold sart injector done as well? The cold start injector can leak. Have you opened up your AFM and moved the spring wheel? if you have moved it, move it back to sock. does the vehicle have any abnormal symptoms while driving?

Didn't have the cold start injector serviced. I didn't move the spring wheel in the AFM either. It has no abnormal symptoms while driving. I was surprised it failed emissions because the mileage hasn't been bad and its been running fine.

NATER623 · « **Reply #22 on:** Sep 17, 2009, 11:04:25 PM »

have you tried jumping the test/timing connector and reading the flash codes?

Matty · « **Reply #23 on:** Sep 21, 2009, 12:16:58 PM »

Quote from: NATER623 on Sep 17, 2009, 11:04:25 PM

have you tried jumping the test/timing connector and reading the flash codes?

no codes.

bump. anybody have a wiring diagram or pics (preferably) of the 02 wiring for an '85 22RE. I followed it from the ECU into the fuse block where there is a plug, but im not finding the one wire it's suppose to run off of.

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