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Author Topic: We test Marlin Crawler's HREW vs. Competitor's DOM Bumper Steel  (Read 87528 times)

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TacoRunner

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So.let take it to the LARGEST OFFROAD WEBSITE then!!then everyone can talk there since not ALL Pirate members are on here..What do you say then???? Shall I start the talk and response on there?...Give me the word and I'll link it to here....


Got me thinking.........Everyone should just call it quits about one another before everything gets out of hand. ie (like that Rear Output Shaft that stirred up on PIRATE4x4, for the ones who doesn't follow......)

Although no Names are mentioned, for the smart ones, we know who i targets when advertised specifically...





Did you fall asleep or something  :smack:         :wave:  McFly


I cant believe you just said that. Camo and the rest of Pirate whom ever they are, are totally and completely sucking the D%$@ of Trail Gear. You feel free to post what ever you want on Pirate. I dont give a S&!%

Any time negative press is directed at trail gear on Pirate camo and drm come to the rescue and start threatening people of being banned. Ask 4rnrrick if pirate is biased to Trail-Gear.

 :think:  Read up
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Tell ya what, go ahead and link it. Do it please. Maybe Marlin will get lucky and the thread wont be deleted.
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Bazzi  :beerchug:

Hope I didn't come off to strong, maybe I mis read your post.

no thats not it... I havent been on my toes lately... don´t know whats up. I justdon´t seem to get what I am thinking out of my mouth or on a paper correctly.... things are super slow around me, I guess my brain is in sleep mote or something :smack:
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Well the proof is in the pudding so they say WELL written and backed by sound facts

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Thanks Pumba4x4. You know it's funny that after this TECH ARTICLE got deleted from Pirates for the 3rd time by Camo, all of a sudden out of no where this same competitor suddenly announced their bumpers are made out of a different grade of DOM material.

This is very interesting for the following two reasons:
  • It takes at least a month for them to get new bumpers in stock (since the material is sourced from overseas and arrives on a boat)
  • The material they "claim" to be using is both highly uncommon and in fact is not obtainable from our Fresno metal yards, not any of them.
  • The material they "claim" to be using has a very high carbon content making it more brittle.

No engineer I know would want to run a brittle bumper and I wouldn't advise anyone to use one for the very same reason.

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flyin hawaiian

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almost bought a TG 1035 dom bumpers  :thumbdown: but after reading this im ordering yours
Stock 85 SR5 runner for now

junya92toy

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what is the carbon content of theirs?

Thanks Pumba4x4. You know it's funny that after this TECH ARTICLE got deleted from Pirates for the 3rd time by Camo, all of a sudden out of no where this same competitor suddenly announced their bumpers are made out of a different grade of DOM material.

This is very interesting for the following two reasons:
  • It takes at least a month for them to get new bumpers in stock (since the material is sourced from overseas and arrives on a boat)
  • The material they "claim" to be using is both highly uncommon and in fact is not obtainable from our Fresno metal yards, not any of them.
  • The material they "claim" to be using has a very high carbon content making it more brittle.

No engineer I know would want to run a brittle bumper and I wouldn't advise anyone to use one for the very same reason.

BigMike
Dr.Maxwe001 – well i have a 15 gal compressor now and if I gett he 60  and then use the 15 as a reserve that wil give me 75 gal  thats close to 80 isnt it ?

BigMike [OP]

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what is the carbon content of theirs?

If they are really running a 1035 material, then it is supposed to be between 32 and 38% carbon. I emphasize supposed because the problem with cheap, non-USA metal is that you never know what you are getting. In their defense, they might have a shipment of 1035 steel that only has 25% carbon, which wouldn't split as easily. But then again on the flip-side they could get 1035 steel that has 45% carbon content :o

I don't have to be coy about it because this is a known industry fact: They never know what they are buying when it's that cheap, the consistency isn't there! I would bet that when I did this test and presented the data, this upset them greatly and they just opened up a book, ran their finger down some table, and said "okay, let's just say we are using that one!"
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87pickup

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I also read that china doesnt hold manufacturers responsible for making sure steel sizes and thickness are kept with in tolerance. Like 1.5 .120 dom made in the us is supposed to be from like .118- .128. Where as chinese steel that should be .120 can be like .110.

GNasty 82

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Just for those that don't know, here's a exert from Wikipedia.

Quote
Carbon steels and alloy steels are designated by a four digit number, where the first digit indicates the main alloying element(s), the second digit indicates the secondary alloying element(s), and the last two digits indicate the amount of carbon, in hundredths of a percent by weight. For example, a 1060 steel is a plain-carbon steel containing 0.60 wt% C.


Original article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_steel_grades
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Just for those that don't know, here's a exert from Wikipedia.
 

Original article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_steel_grades

Never knew what the numbers mean, thanks! Also not all USA steel is better than other countries.

James
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Sharon-It is odd how society sees things. Let's say a guy sleeps with all these girls, "he's the man!" or a stud but if a girl does, she's a total very *friendly* person or sleeper. Is society sexist?
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Brandon-Well think about it this way. If a key can open a bunch of locks, it is viewed as a master key and is awesome to have but if a lock is opened by a lot of different keys, well thats a pretty shitty lock if you ask me.

blackdiamond

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Never knew what the numbers mean, thanks! Also not all USA steel is better than other countries.

James

I think the point is that US steel is held to standards so you know what you're getting.  Non-US steel can vary from the standard because it isn't a tightly controlled.
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SocalWheeler71

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Oh man I don't know if I should let myself get dragged into this, but I feel that I have professional experience very relevant to the subject. I worked for several years as a quality control inspector for an importer that distributed tubular welded steel components from China, among other types of components, including cast, forged and CNC machined.

This is what I can tell you about steel quality from China- It's a joke. What is considered 1020 steel there is not the same as 1020 here. In China there are no industry standards that are held to. They do not honor any copyrights either, that's why so much counterfeit product comes from China. In countries that hold industry standards, when a material is certified as let's say 1020, it is pure 1020 steel. In China it can contain as little as 5% 1020 steel, and the filler materials can vary quite a bit. Also, heat treating is a total crap shoot.
If they are really running a 1035 material, then it is supposed to be between 32 and 38% carbon. I emphasize supposed because the problem with cheap, non-USA metal is that you never know what you are getting. In their defense, they might have a shipment of 1035 steel that only has 25% carbon, which wouldn't split as easily. But then again on the flip-side they could get 1035 steel that has 45% carbon content :o

I don't have to be coy about it because this is a known industry fact: They never know what they are buying when it's that cheap, the consistency isn't there! I would bet that when I did this test and presented the data, this upset them greatly and they just opened up a book, ran their finger down some table, and said "okay, let's just say we are using that one!"
Mike, you've done a great job and I agree with everything you have said up to this point, except what I have highlighted in red. It's not incorrect, but it's not accurate either. IMHO, there is very high consistantcy within a production batch from China, but each batch (or "run") might not be the same as the last. Perhaps you are referreing to the material purity? In that case, you're right, although the batch will be very consistant within itself.

Here is the bottom line people- YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR

Why is that so hard to understand?

BigMike [OP]

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SocalWheeler71-

Thank you for your excellent reply. While I have a good knowledge of material science, I do not have the hands-on experience with Chinese steel like you do, and I certainly appreciate your experience in this matter. Our lead engineering does, however, have a lot of experience in dealing with Chinese "lawn chair metal" as he calls it, and this is where I derive many of my comments and acquisitions from.

In China it can contain as little as 5% 1020 steel, and the filler materials can vary quite a bit
Wow, that is even worse than I thought. :o

Mike, you've done a great job and I agree with everything you have said up to this point, except what I have highlighted in red. It's not incorrect, but it's not accurate either. IMHO, there is very high consistantcy within a production batch from China, but each batch (or "run") might not be the same as the last.
That is exactly what I am referring to :) I am sure they mass order hundreds at a time, and I believe from batch to batch there will be a lack of consistency as to just what they are buying. :headshake:

Regards,
BigMike
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MiniSimp

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Wait...what did I miss? :headscratch:



 :gap: :therethere:
BTW, the steel on your 2nd gen front bumper is still flawless after many front impacts.

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I have experience with the competitors "dom". Might as well be poo pipe, I bought a trail jizz rear bumper, first time I used the hi lift the tube bent. First time I had the weight of the truck on the bumper on the trail the brackets bent and pushed the bumper into my pristine tailgate. This garbage flexes all over the place, I have a mark on the body where the tube hit on the passenger side. it flexed enought to close up a 2in gap between the body and bumper and dent my truck...

On the other hand I built some sliders from american HREW and they have taken several hard hits and they dont flex, they dont dent, and the steel welds 10x nicer. There is even a difference in tone when you drop chinese dom on the ground vs american dom. The china makes a thud and doesnt vibrate much, the hrew RINGS and vibrates like an sob. A telltale sign of softer metal to me. F china, I like american parts on my jap truck  :moon:
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Had to revive this thread because I've been less than impressed by marlins steel. My sliders have some serious dents in them, unfortunately they are tied into my exo otherwise they would be gone. Just ran across this picture. That bumper look properly mounted and unless it was dropped from space I don't think this should have bent like this.

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NICE! That is pretty awesome right there! :yesnod: If that doesn't showcase the strength of our bumpers I don't know what will! I'd hate to see that Runner without our bumper on there!! :yikes:
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i would have to say it did what it was suppose to do.  it looks like you dropped off a huge ledge? iam guessing and if you didnt have something there you would be searching for a new rear section there kid

Slolyfe

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i would have to say it did what it was suppose to do.  it looks like you dropped off a huge ledge? iam guessing and if you didnt have something there you would be searching for a new rear section there kid

Ok grandpa. No where here have i said that the rear section would have been better without the bumper, NO :pokinit: Einstein!! Yes the bumper did some what of a job a blind retard could tell you that.

But I have seen 1.5 and 1.75 HREW .120 hold up to pretty big rolls with wider spans and not double tubed.

Bottom line IN MY OPINION ONLY. I would not buy Marlin sliders, bumpers, or a cage. Just being the devils advocate, speaking on behalf of the 'I don't think marlins protection is the bomb'

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You are comparing apples to oranges, everything has a failing point.  Not all stresses are the same, like a roll and a drop.
Dr.Maxwe001 – well i have a 15 gal compressor now and if I gett he 60  and then use the 15 as a reserve that wil give me 75 gal  thats close to 80 isnt it ?

BigMike [OP]

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Remember that the bumper is supported at the frame rails. If you have a large enough point load at the center of the bumper, that will happen every time. Thank goodness for the bumper is my opinion.
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junya92toy

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Well, they need to look at it this way, its easier to place the bumper then the rear section of the runner!
Dr.Maxwe001 – well i have a 15 gal compressor now and if I gett he 60  and then use the 15 as a reserve that wil give me 75 gal  thats close to 80 isnt it ?

GNasty 82

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Well, they need to look at it this way, its easier to place the bumper then the rear section of the runner!

Right on!!!

People need to realize that when one object collides with another, physics say that something MUST absorb the energy of that impact!!  In the case of a bumper attached to the frame of a truck,  it's the bumper's job to absorb that energy, if the bumper is so strong that it does not absorb the energy, it will transmit that energy to it's mounting point (your frame) and then guess what happens... that's right your frame absorbs that energy and gets bent up.  Of the three things that can get messed up from an impact (bumper - body - frame) I'd much rather the bumper give some, even to the point of rubbing the body, than my frame giving, because, and trust me on this one, when the frame gives, it's taking some body with it too, and then you wind up with a bumper that held up, but now you have frame AND body to fix.  All because you wanted a bumper that would not bend under any circumstances.

In summary, a really strong bumper is great, but it still needs to bend if it takes a hard enough lick.
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junya92toy

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Right on!!!

People need to realize that when one object collides with another, physics say that something MUST absorb the energy of that impact!!  In the case of a bumper attached to the frame of a truck,  it's the bumper's job to absorb that energy, if the bumper is so strong that it does not absorb the energy, it will transmit that energy to it's mounting point (your frame) and then guess what happens... that's right your frame absorbs that energy and gets bent up.  Of the three things that can get messed up from an impact (bumper - body - frame) I'd much rather the bumper give some, even to the point of rubbing the body, than my frame giving, because, and trust me on this one, when the frame gives, it's taking some body with it too, and then you wind up with a bumper that held up, but now you have frame AND body to fix.  All because you wanted a bumper that would not bend under any circumstances.

In summary, a really strong bumper is great, but it still needs to bend if it takes a hard enough lick.

Dont forget that your body can take a lot of that energy and thats even harder to heal at times.
Dr.Maxwe001 – well i have a 15 gal compressor now and if I gett he 60  and then use the 15 as a reserve that wil give me 75 gal  thats close to 80 isnt it ?

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Seeing as there's a reciever built into it, the center section should be very strong.  Not knowing what kind of impact that had, I still have to lean toward it not being strong enough.  Probably should be something along the lines of center support  :twocents:
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Right on!!!

People need to realize that when one object collides with another, physics say that something MUST absorb the energy of that impact!!  In the case of a bumper attached to the frame of a truck,  it's the bumper's job to absorb that energy, if the bumper is so strong that it does not absorb the energy, it will transmit that energy to it's mounting point (your frame) and then guess what happens... that's right your frame absorbs that energy and gets bent up.  Of the three things that can get messed up from an impact (bumper - body - frame) I'd much rather the bumper give some, even to the point of rubbing the body, than my frame giving, because, and trust me on this one, when the frame gives, it's taking some body with it too, and then you wind up with a bumper that held up, but now you have frame AND body to fix.  All because you wanted a bumper that would not bend under any circumstances.

In summary, a really strong bumper is great, but it still needs to bend if it takes a hard enough lick.

Sounds good to me
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Seeing as there's a reciever built into it, the center section should be very strong.  Not knowing what kind of impact that had, I still have to lean toward it not being strong enough.  Probably should be something along the lines of center support  :twocents:

I steady pulling force and a impact are far different. Look at factory bumpers with just a ball on it. It will tow a good amount of weight but bends easy under a impact.
Simple physics. .
Dr.Maxwe001 – well i have a 15 gal compressor now and if I gett he 60  and then use the 15 as a reserve that wil give me 75 gal  thats close to 80 isnt it ?

kneedownnate

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I don't think factory bumpers are meant to pull much weight, at least not anything comparable to what would have come on that pickup.  And I've seen lots of people tow who don't know the first thing about smooth, probably the same people who like to slam hydraulic controls rather than ease into it.

I love marlin products, but looking at that, it just looks weak.  Still don't know what type of impact it took though.
RIP KYOTA

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