Topic: We test Marlin Crawler's HREW vs. Competitor's DOM Bumper Steel

[junya92toy]

I ate pait chips as a kid so what
He/we will fix the bumper and it will be fine so everybody breathe in ......count to ten....wait Jerry keep it in till you see the light......

Im perfectly fine and calm. Dont use my name again.

[brockbuilt85]

sooooo.......yea.
at this point i dont care how it looks as long as its functional, and i can get my tail gate open. it doesnt have to be perfect its a ROCK CRAWLER, my brother has repeatedly stated that to me. and we all know what his looks like, hahaha, but it works, when it runs.....

[*** YELLER ***]

Im perfectly fine and calm. Dont use my name again.

JERRY92TOY....JERRY92TOY.....JERRY92TOY 

[IronClad]

I declare that this thread will now be about this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eopJea-f6rY

Discuss.

[*** YELLER ***]

I think that jeans and a vest are just not the right outfit to wear on the beach

[abeer]

I think it's a good video........ but its no Indian Thriller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtJRNyPK-lc

[IronClad]

I think it's a good video........ but its no Indian Thriller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtJRNyPK-lc

A classic, BUT i raise you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozXQqAXUkHY


"5 seconds from now will be awesome with a slight chance of the best day of my life"

[abeer]

"Airplanes is embarassed" and so am I. You win, sir.

[mspry]

Nice going! Its neat to see results like this. 

Now to play the devils advocate. 
What if the dent or rock slides on the seam of HREW tubing? VS Seamless DOM?

I don't doubt that your steel is stronger but just thought I would ask. Don't worry every piece of prefabbed steel on my truck is from marlin and thanks cause Ive given them a beating!

Thank you for the excellent question. In terms of hardness, I would assume it to be much harder due to the tempering effects during the welding process. I will be doing some other tests in the up coming weeks and will revisit this question when I return to the lab.

My hypothesis: The welded region will be harder, but I wonder how the welded region will hold up while it is being deformed. After typing that last sentence I immediately wondered where that seam was during the crush test, so check this out:



you'll notice the seam is at the bottom. At first thought I wipe my forehead and say "whew" but as I ponder this more, I bet that due to the increase in hardness near the welded region, perhaps the material will be harder to crush if the seam was at 6' or 3'o-clock? This has definitely raised my curiosity!

This shouldn't even be a factor. This is a common misconception about DOM. Common DOM isn't seamless. It's actually just ERW which is drawn over a madrel in order to flatten out the weld inside the tube in order to obtain symetrical and consistent side wall. My point being that the DOM was also welded, so as far as temper or anything similar, they shoudl be equal. Here's a link that should explain it in much more detail. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=659544

[BigMike [OP]]

This shouldn't even be a factor. This is a common misconception about DOM. Common DOM isn't seamless. It's actually just ERW which is drawn over a madrel in order to flatten out the weld inside the tube in order to obtain symetrical and consistent side wall. My point being that the DOM was also welded, so as far as temper or anything similar, they shoudl be equal. Here's a link that should explain it in much more detail. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=659544

mspry,

Thank you for this information. It only proves more the point that simply having a "DOM" product does not prove it is more dent resistant than a HREW product

BigMike

[junya92toy]

mspry,

Thank you for this information. It only proves more the point that simply having a "DOM" product does not prove it is more dent resistant than a HREW product
BigMike

I still say strength is all in the design.

[79coyotefrg]

I still say strength is all in the design.

JERRY JERRY JERRY

[junya92toy]

If this was anyone else it would get flagged but to a indifference on this board it wont.

[79coyotefrg]

If this was anyone else it would get flagged but to a indifference on this board it wont.

OMG Captain Obvious misused grammar     ^  now JERRY shouldn't that be "an"  instead of "a"

[79coyotefrg]

its not funny when its done to you is it Jerry.

[BigMike [OP]]

I still say strength is all in the design.

Yes, I absolutely agree with this point. Remember this thread is discussing the bumper material.

[hudlenutz]

Mike, materials testing = awesome!  I'm thrilled to know that MC is putting out quality products, and I'm a big fan of made in USA.

As far as the competitor's material goes, I wish we knew the grade.  Reality is, that it probably isn't even the grade that they ordered, and it likely changes with every batch.

I think the real opportunity for MC is shown in your results.  You have better material that creates a better product.  The fact that it's HREW trips a lot of your potential customers up.  This is no longer an engineering exercise, it's a marketing battle.

I will explain.  People buy their GMC pickup with an Allison transmission, because they think it's better.  They are even willing to pay a substantial premium for it.  Most GMC customers have no idea what details make the Allison better than the other options, if they even know what the other options are [anyone know the name of the non-Allison trans off the top of their head?].  Do the same with your steel.  Give it a name, put it in the will, get it from a quality supplier with your own exclusive specs/heat treat.  Make it into something beyond HREW/DOM that no one else has, and is better than what everyone else is selling.  If you can set it apart in a meaningful, convincing way, you can then compete on quality instead of price. 

I think I'd leave the hornets' nest HREW/DOM thing on the table and run with the fact that your stuff is flat better.  It's getting late - does that even make any sense?

[hudlenutz]

4130 anyone?   

[ToyotaObsession]

Very interesting thread. I like everything I've read so far. But there seems to be something people are forgetting. Were pitting a hollow tube of Steel against a dense piece of Solid Rock. Even it was made from Adamantium there would still be a weak link somewhere, a weld, a bolt, a sharp rock. In certain situations the rock is just going to win. They don't call it Sandcrawling.

I wasn't in either of those situations where the Bumpers bent. But they looked like they were impacted hard in one specific part.

I'm still learning a lot about these materials. But there's no way to be certain that DOM would have faired any better. From what I have read it's got a higher carbon content which makes it more brittle correct? Is it feasible to think that perhaps DOM might have cracked in a situation such as that? Where as the HREW would bend? I don't know honestly. I'm asking.

I've always heard nothing but glowing praise for all of  products. Tough and dependable the way it should be. So I'm of the mind that even if the bent, a lesser product would have failed completely. Like I was alluding too earlier, nothing is going to go up against the rocks and come out unscathed after enough times.

[dirtybird]

4130 anyone?  

kinda pricey and and i dont think it bends very well.seems to crack first from what ive seen

[dirtybird]

im not a lawyer or anything but couldnt you take your test results and open a class action lawsuit for false advertising? seems it would make a lot more people mad and be much funner get em where it hurts!!!!! there chinese pocket!!!!!!!!!!

[BigMike [OP]]

im not a lawyer or anything but couldnt you take your test results and open a class action lawsuit for false advertising?

I am sure you could... but this is a small industry and I'd rather invest time doing side-by-side product comparisons like this and like the many other comparisons we've done over the years. I feel there is more merit in being honest, upfront, and then showing results to back up what we say and do -- rather than pointing fingers at others.

When results speak louder than marketing hype, you win. A good example of this is how the same week I posted this comparison, the same competitor added the type of DOM steel grade to their website, claiming to use a very high grade DOM steel. There are three huge problems with this: 1) No iron yards that we know of carries that grade pipe steel, 2) Making changes to goods that are imported overseas takes months because you have to order in bulk to be price competitive plus it takes at least 3 weeks of transit time by boat, and 3) The steel they claim to be using has a very high carbon content which would make it more brittle than it already is.

We don't run our fingers down a SAE chart to the largest four digit steel grade and change our marketing material overnight. We sell what we advertise and sell what we believe truly works. We've been in business for a very long time and our reputation has been built on honesty.

Regards,
BigMike

[rockin86runner]

thiss is what happened to mine this weekend out snow wheeling and got caught in the ditch and hit a stump.. didnt even hit hard iv dropped off rocks and beat on this bumper hella good all the time and never any prob... you can see the missing paint in the 3rd pic where it bent right wher the shackle mounts use to be

[79coyotefrg]

thiss is what happened to mine this weekend out snow wheeling and got caught in the ditch and hit a stump.. didnt even hit hard iv dropped off rocks and beat on this bumper hella good all the time and never any prob... you can see the missing paint in the 3rd pic where it bent right wher the shackle mounts use to be

I dont think its ever been said they wouldnt bend.

[BigMike [OP]]

thiss is what happened to mine this weekend out snow wheeling and got caught in the ditch and hit a stump.. didnt even hit hard iv dropped off rocks and beat on this bumper hella good all the time and never any prob... you can see the missing paint in the 3rd pic where it bent right wher the shackle mounts use to be

Awesome pics rockin86runner! Now you'll need to update your scale Crawler to match

I really like seeing our bumpers being used hard and protecting everyone's investment Thank you for posting up the pics!

Regards,
BigMike

[mcharfauros]

Well this thread is dated, however very informative for people like me who never even thought about these factors. Looks like a lot of hours, research, and testing has been put into this, and definitely something I can appreciate.