Topic: 3RZ balance shaft delete...

[H8PVMNT]

The 3RZ I'm swaping has a hashed balance shaft.  I know the tuner set usually deletes the balance shafts anyway and I heard the Marlin guys are deteting them when they do a swap.  Has anybody done this or can you direct me to the right thread?  The only thing I can see is that you should block off the oil passages for the front balance shaft bearings so you don't lose oil preasure...  Do you need that gear on the front of the one balance shaft for the oil pump or something?

Thanks guys, Wheel On!

[jmsdad]

I think you'll get a better response on customtacos or tacomaworld

[79coyotefrg]

I think you'll get a better response on customtacos or tacomaworld

The 3RZ I'm swaping has a hashed balance shaft.  I know the tuner set usually deletes the balance shafts anyway and I heard the Marlin guys are deteting them when they do a swap.  Has anybody done this or can you direct me to the right thread?  The only thing I can see is that you should block off the oil passages for the front balance shaft bearings so you don't lose oil preasure...  Do you need that gear on the front of the one balance shaft for the oil pump or something?

Thanks guys, Wheel On!

ive never been in one but if you do you'll need to have the crank balanced i would think

BigMike would know more on this

[zidaro]

LCE has a kit for this mod.
Dont know anything else about it.  Sorry

[H8PVMNT [OP]]

I ordered the kit from LC.  I haven't got a whole lot of info on the mod but what the heck...  I'll try it out and see if it works, or if it implodes or something.  I have a buddy with a single cab Tacoma that has similar gearing that should be a good comparison.

I was thinking of having the crank knife edged and rebalanced when I get it turned.  Anybody have an aluminum flywheel?

[OOPS]

I was thinking of having the crank knife edged and rebalanced when I get it turned.  Anybody have an aluminum flywheel?

What are you going to be using this rig for? If it is Rock crawling you want to keep the weight of those components up, high speed desert racing, then go for it.

[H8PVMNT [OP]]

Knife edging was just too friggin' expensive anyway... like $1,000 more than the standard re-grind.  Now I am looking into using 2RZ pistons.  Supposedly they fit perfect and are flat top instead of dished like the 3RZ pistons so they get you about a 10.75:1 compression and more snort!  I have some guys measuring pistons for me at LC to find out if it could work.  If it does work it could be the next good cheap trick for the 3RZ after the balance shaft delete.

[Hawk Thor]

If I were you I would keep the stock flywheel or get a bigger one from LCE. The added rotating mass would make it harder to stall the engine and you would have more low end torque.

[H8PVMNT [OP]]

I'm planning on using the stock flywheel...  I was never disapointed with the 22re stalling with the stock flywheel after I did 5.29s and a 4.7 t-case, so I'm sure the 3RZ will be fine too.  I'm just looking for things to do with this engine while I have it torn apart.

[H8PVMNT [OP]]

OK so the 2RZ piston trick is a myth.  They would fit but are a bit shorter on top between the wrist pin centerline and the top of the piston so they would drop yor compression...  Maybe the turbo set is doing it to drop compression.  Back to stock pistons.

[TacoRunner]

Guys, I've done the LCE heavier flywheel in the 3RZ. And I really dont recommend it. They did a great job with the product but, the added weight really sucks off the line.

[BigMike]

I heard the Marlin guys are deteting them when they do a swap.

We have never done this. We are all running the stock components. Good luck and let us know how it turns out with it removed!

[H8PVMNT [OP]]

We have never done this. We are all running the stock components. Good luck and let us know how it turns out with it removed!

Should have the swap done by April or May so I'll let you know...  According to LC the engine vibration with the balance shafts deleted from the 3RZ is comparable to their 2.7 22re stroker.  Apperantly they have less to do with internal resonance and more to do with comfort and less powertrain vibration as far as Toyota's design is concearned.  Since these trucks are kind of hot rods, we could all give up a little engine smootheness for 15 HP.  Maybe it's BS, but I'll try it and do my best to find out how it compares to a stock 3RZ.

Wheel On!

[TacoRunner]

Please let us know how you like it.

[zidaro]

I'll be doing this as well, soon as I open things up.  I'll post an update when i get mine done

[indauto]

Noone posts any info after theyve done it! Anyone here actually do the delete and have it running? How was it?

[BigMike]

Noone posts any info after theyve done it! Anyone here actually do the delete and have it running? How was it?

X2

[H8PVMNT [OP]]

I did it and am finally running the engine. I think I have a few pics in my build thread on the 4Runner. There is not much to the delete kit.  You rotate the front balance shaft bearings 90 degrees to pug the oil passages, tap another small oil hole in the front of the block and put a plug in it and then replace a tensioner with an oil jet that I think is from a 2RZ.

The engine runs just fine and is really smooth.  I don't have a baseline 3RZ to compare it to but power is good and I have gotten up to 24.5 mpg unloaded which seems to be more than most guys are getting.  I also ported and polished the head but I think the combination of both mods is contributing to the efficiency.  Anyway I haven't seen any drawbacks to the balance shaft delete so far and I've ran the engine for about 10K miles... If you have your engine taken apart anyway I don't see why not to do it.

[BigMike]

Thank you for the feedback. It seems that a balance shaft delete would negatively impact fuel mileage, but you are getting very great mileage indeed!

[H8PVMNT [OP]]

Thank you for the feedback. It seems that a balance shaft delete would negatively impact fuel mileage, but you are getting very great mileage indeed!

Why negatively, because of the more rev happiness or the less rotating mass carrying you along like a lighter flywheel?  I honestly think other than freeing up a little weight is probably doesn't to that much but my drivers side rear balance shaft bearing was spun out anyway and the shaft and the related bore messed up so it was cheaper to delete than to fix it. Less moving parts is better in my feable mind so what the heck.

It seems like the balance shaft system has issues with super high horspower builds or is someone runs their engine way low on oil. I think the previous owner of my engine didn't beleive in maintenance. Those rear bearings depend entirely on oil flinging around in the back of the crank case to get lubrication.  If your oil gets low they would clearly starve which seemed like what was going on.

[BigMike]

Reducing reciprocating and vehicle mass will improve gas mileage during stop-and-go driving conditions, but the most optimal form of driving for maximum fuel mileage is at constant flat-ground speed, in which case increased reciprocating mass equates to more stored energy which increases your fuel economy at a constant speed (think of a constant speed freight train on flat ground).

When my MR2 was normally aspirated, it made 38 mpg on the freeway. As soon as I swapped in a lightweight TODA chromoly flywheel, the mileage dropped to 34-35 mpg on the freeway. I was having to input throttle to maintain the same speed on overpasses as well as having to constantly feather the throttle to maintain speed.

It's great to see that your engine isn't vibrating and that you don't notice any ill side effects. I wonder if this was just another over engineering decision to help sell Tacoma's?

[TacoRunner]

I thought about this for a while. But LC Engineering told me that while you see a 2 hp gain you also see a 2 ft lb torque loss. Since 4 cly'er engine are known for there ease of gaining hp with engine mods but are also known for their dificulty in gaining torque, I personally see this as a bad investment for any 3rz. Torque is what moves you so keep the torque and forget about 2 piddley hp.

[BigMike]

Interesting. I wonder if the torque comes on a lil stronger earlier in the power band which would make it worth the 2 lb-ft peak loss.....

Hey Godfather, we'll never know how it is till we try it!


Sent from my iPhone connected to the BigMike Network using Tapatalk

[boggerunner]

i did the balance shaft delete in my 4runner over 2 yrs ago.
ive been really happy with it, but i also had the bottom end balanced when i did it.

[H8PVMNT [OP]]

Thanks, Bigmike, so it is kind of like the inertia/flywheel thing. I think it's one of those mods that you probably would not feel the gains or ill effects from since it is so nominal.  It's hard for me to say since I don't have a stock 3RZ baseline to compare it to. Like I said, for me the delete was less cost than repairing the balance shafts so it was almost a necessity. Despite the pluses and minuses though I have heard of this same problem where the back bearings get messed up on several occaisions on other forums and because of that I think getting rid of the system is viable.  It will be interesting to see if I get the longevity out of my 3RZ without the shafts...

[BigMike]

Do you guys happen to know what the total amount of weight removed is? How heavy is the balance shaft? Any guesses? Thanks

[H8PVMNT [OP]]

I put the shafts themselves on the postal scale and they are about 8 lbs by themselves.  Of course you have another timing chain and if I remember another gear in there somewhere, so I would say 9+/-lbs total of rotating parts.

[TacoRunner]

Interesting. I wonder if the torque comes on a lil stronger earlier in the power band which would make it worth the 2 lb-ft peak loss.....

Hey Godfather, we'll never know how it is till we try it!


Sent from my iPhone connected to the BigMike Network using Tapatalk

No way buddy. Im not wasting my time with that. But please feel free. I have other more important things to do like my flippin gas tank to finish off.

[Jdlucasjr]

No way buddy. Im not wasting my time with that. But please feel free. I have other more important things to do like my flippin gas tank to finish off.

yes hurry up and finish that so i can think abut linking the rear of my truck and have a sweet gas tank to go with it.

[MarionBumper2Bumper]

I am new here, but have been on TacomaWorld for quite a while.  I wanted to ask a question about the balance shaft deletes.  I am a tech, so you won't have to dumb it down for me...lol.

I have an issue with the front end of my engine.  A noise that is a pain, and to find this noise, I will be removing the timing chain cover on my 2.7 3RZFE. I am considering the delete as an option, but I was curious about something.  I am not racing this truck, and it is my daily driver, and occasional 4X4. Is there a way to delete the OPERATION of the balance shafts, without removing them?  I'm not worried so much about weight, but am thinking about removing the chain and tensioner because I think my noise may be related to them.  It has been months since I had one of these engines taken apart, and I just can't recall if there is a way to just remove the chain and leave the rest of the parts still there.rg