Author Topic: Hino 1st gear  (Read 17316 times)

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rbusatoy

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Hino 1st gear
« on: Sep 03, 2004, 09:35:39 AM »
I was talking to Dean at Marlin yeaterday about the Hino 1st gear and need some more info.  Do you know maybe what year this may have came in and is this the make of the compony or is it a Hino toyota or something.  i have found some hear in Jakarta and am going to get ahold of the dealer.  I looked in the phone book today and there is a Hino savage yard hear also.  Do you need the hole tranny or just the first gear.  Can you give me a list of everything that you would need to put this in to the new tranny.  Dean you can email me direct or just post something.  My email is (busa@fabfours.com). 

Thanks Ryan Busa

Hope I can help. 
Ryan Busa
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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #1 on: Sep 03, 2004, 01:54:40 PM »
I can about guarantee your going to be buying the whole tranny to get it. Junk yards generaly don't pull good transmssions apart to give somebody a single gear out of one. They don't keep  bad tranys around they throw them in scrap and they get melted down.

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #2 on: Sep 04, 2004, 09:39:28 PM »
Ryan, you will need the complete 2 wheel drive trans. It is a remote side shifting 5 speed trans with an aluminun bellhousing, cast iron front housing with a power take off option, then a cast iron center and finally a 10 bolt rear cast iron housing that has a land cruiser style e-brake drum on it. 

The trans is called R452 and when I build one, the complete gear set must be used. It was never made for a 4 wheel drive truck so I must use the housings, shift rods, and output shaft from a R150F or R151F core.

It was used in Hino trucks and found behind the 2LT, and 3LT diesels. I have seen '88 thur '97 model trans.

I have had problems finding them and getting then imported to the states.

I still have one complete transmission that I can post pics off. [It is buried and would be hard to get out of the pile].

Good luck at the wrecking yard. Please let me know how it goes.

Marlin
1980 Toyota - 1997 3RZ-FE 2.7l Engine, Turbo R151F 4.31:1, Triple Turbo Marlin Crawler Billet (2.28x4.70x4.70) = 1,148:1 Crawl Ratio, Marlin Crawler Twin Stick and Short Throw Shift Kits, 30mm H/D Output Shaft, High Angle Drive Lines, 5.29:1, ARBs, High Pinion Front, 25mm HD Billet High Steer Kit, 6 Pin Locking Hub Bodies, 86+ Wide Rear End, V6 3rd member, Chromolly Axles all around, 37" IROKs with Beadlocks, York onboard air - Rollbar air tank, Premier Power Welder, Marlin Crawler 4" USA-made Leaf Springs, Bilstein Shocks, et cetera....

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #3 on: Sep 04, 2004, 11:01:11 PM »
It is also found in Dyna 150 trucks with the 3L diesel engine.
They also call it the R452 transmission.
1980 Toyota - 1997 3RZ-FE 2.7l Engine, Turbo R151F 4.31:1, Triple Turbo Marlin Crawler Billet (2.28x4.70x4.70) = 1,148:1 Crawl Ratio, Marlin Crawler Twin Stick and Short Throw Shift Kits, 30mm H/D Output Shaft, High Angle Drive Lines, 5.29:1, ARBs, High Pinion Front, 25mm HD Billet High Steer Kit, 6 Pin Locking Hub Bodies, 86+ Wide Rear End, V6 3rd member, Chromolly Axles all around, 37" IROKs with Beadlocks, York onboard air - Rollbar air tank, Premier Power Welder, Marlin Crawler 4" USA-made Leaf Springs, Bilstein Shocks, et cetera....

rbusatoy [OP]

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #4 on: Sep 05, 2004, 03:44:25 AM »
So you would need the whole tranny then to use any parts from it.  I have font some junk yards hear that i may can get them from.  I am going to do some checking next week and see what i can find.  Over hear in Indonesia they do now throw nothing away or cruch it.  When the truck gets so bad that they cannot drive it any more or fix the body they just park it.  Usualy where ever it is at the time.  Thanks for the info and a few pick would help me locat it.  Thanks
Ryan Busa
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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #5 on: Sep 05, 2004, 07:03:52 AM »
cool,  i learned a few weeks ago we are getting a Hino parts plant here in Arkansas, and possibly a Hino truck plant later
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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #6 on: Sep 05, 2004, 09:45:54 AM »
The R452 trans has never been sold or imported to North America by a truck manufacture.
It appears that imported diesel work trucks are all autos?

My local Hino dealer, when I checked two years ago, didnt even list the trans or could not get parts or any info on it. First they wanted the VIN number, because without it, they could not help me.
When I asked to look thur their transmission catologs, they treated me like I had no idea what I was talking about and even asked me if I was at the right dealership.

I was able to talk to the lead drivetrain mechanic, and after describing the transmission, was told that he had never seen or heard of one like that.

Marlin
1980 Toyota - 1997 3RZ-FE 2.7l Engine, Turbo R151F 4.31:1, Triple Turbo Marlin Crawler Billet (2.28x4.70x4.70) = 1,148:1 Crawl Ratio, Marlin Crawler Twin Stick and Short Throw Shift Kits, 30mm H/D Output Shaft, High Angle Drive Lines, 5.29:1, ARBs, High Pinion Front, 25mm HD Billet High Steer Kit, 6 Pin Locking Hub Bodies, 86+ Wide Rear End, V6 3rd member, Chromolly Axles all around, 37" IROKs with Beadlocks, York onboard air - Rollbar air tank, Premier Power Welder, Marlin Crawler 4" USA-made Leaf Springs, Bilstein Shocks, et cetera....

rbusatoy [OP]

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #7 on: Sep 06, 2004, 07:59:59 AM »
I am looking for the ones you posted about.  What would be a good price for one in the states at you door if I can find them.
Ryan Busa
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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #8 on: Sep 08, 2004, 09:01:25 PM »
Between $400.00 to $600.00 each.
It depends on how many I can buy at one time.
I once was able to buy 10 for $400.00 each, and could of gotten more, but did not have another $4000.00 to invest at the time. Wrong decison. I reget that I did not buy them all.

Marlin
1980 Toyota - 1997 3RZ-FE 2.7l Engine, Turbo R151F 4.31:1, Triple Turbo Marlin Crawler Billet (2.28x4.70x4.70) = 1,148:1 Crawl Ratio, Marlin Crawler Twin Stick and Short Throw Shift Kits, 30mm H/D Output Shaft, High Angle Drive Lines, 5.29:1, ARBs, High Pinion Front, 25mm HD Billet High Steer Kit, 6 Pin Locking Hub Bodies, 86+ Wide Rear End, V6 3rd member, Chromolly Axles all around, 37" IROKs with Beadlocks, York onboard air - Rollbar air tank, Premier Power Welder, Marlin Crawler 4" USA-made Leaf Springs, Bilstein Shocks, et cetera....

jr9162

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #9 on: Sep 22, 2004, 12:19:04 AM »
Ryan, you will need the complete 2 wheel drive trans. It is a remote side shifting 5 speed trans with an aluminun bellhousing, cast iron front housing with a power take off option, then a cast iron center and finally a 10 bolt rear cast iron housing that has a land cruiser style e-brake drum on it. 

The trans is called R452 and when I build one, the complete gear set must be used. It was never made for a 4 wheel drive truck so I must use the housings, shift rods, and output shaft from a R150F or R151F core.

It was used in Hino trucks and found behind the 2LT, and 3LT diesels. I have seen '88 thur '97 model trans.

It is also found in Dyna 150 trucks with the 3L diesel engine.
They also call it the R452 transmission.

Marlin, I think Mark's 4WD Adaptors http://www.marks4wd.com/hiluxt.html is using the Dyna gearbox in their HD 5 speed transmission upgrade kit for the Hilux in Australia. The gearbox comes in the following ratios:

1st 5.15:1
2nd 2.87:1
3rd 1.50:1
4th 1:1
5th 0.83:1 or 17% overdrive.

Here's a pic of their conversion with a bellhousing for the Holden V8 engine http://www.marks4wd.com/images/MFK715-MFK650-1.jpg

Of course you probably know much of this information. But hopefully it will help other viewers. As seen the only part of the original Dyna gearbox is the portion painted black, and it indeed has a side shift mechanism. One of my correspondents from Oz was negative about Mark's conversion because of this funky (and sloppy linkage). In his opinion the internal top loader shift is the only way to go.

The R452 is also available in the Hino Dyna 4-093 Cab, Van Body, and/or Drop Side trucks with the Toyota 5L diesel engine. Unlike the 5L's offered in Hiluxes in Oz (September 1997 forward) coupled to W56 and/or R151/R150 gearboxes, the 5L's coupled to Dyna R452s used a different bellhousing. The R452 will not bolt to the Hilux diesel bellhousing, and as far as I know it's 2WD mode only.

My question is... When using the R452 gear sets in a R150F/R151F housing plus shift rods, and output shaft - what is the result of your conversion? A stronger gearbox or just a lower 1st gear ratio than the original? Filll us in please.

Wouldn't new or used Dyna R452 gear sets be available thru Marks (or another vendor wherever) without having to import whole donor transmissions? Have you determined the Toyota part numbers for the gear sets for the R452?

JR 

   
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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #10 on: Sep 24, 2004, 01:19:43 AM »
About 1 1/2 years ago, my importer found six R452's in a wrecking yard overseas. When I agreed on the price, I was told that the owners wife was having a baby! After waiting 2 weeks :sleeping: I was then told that all six trans had already been shipped to Oz. I was bumbed :maddest:

I would be afraid of importing just the gear set due to being damaged in shipment.
I dought that Marks would sell just the gear set.

I had heard of what Marks was doing but had never seen a pic of it. I am very suprised to see all the trouble that they went thur. The factory 2WD 26 spline R452 output shaft cannot be reused in this 4WD application. It is too long and does not have enought metal for the c clip groove for 5th gear or the proper area or size for the proper 23 spline output shaft. I under stand that we were the only ones to get the 23 spline input gear driven t/case ['86-'87 22R Turbo trucks]. If they were machining the R452 output shaft down to the 21 spline non turbo input size and resplining, this would be a weak link, [how ever, I would not be surpised if they were]
To do the proper job, a 4WD R150F, or R151F [they are the same] output shaft would slip right in and due to the increased torque, must be used. This means that the complete trans must be taken apart. If this must be done, why not install the 515 gear set into a R150F, or R151F housing and get away from the funky shifting system. I constanly turn down buying R150F trans, I have too many.
Just seems like a waste of time to me to go thur all the work that they have done.

When ever you lower the ratio of the same transmission by making the input gear smaller, and the matching countershaft gear bigger, the transmission must be weaker!!!!

Both the R150F V6, and the R151F Turbo trans use the same input-countershaft teeth. Only the 1th gear teeth are different.

            Input           C/shaft front teeth      1th gear         C/shaft 1th gear teeth     Ratio
R150F   29                43                            31                 12                                 3.8304596
R151F   29                43                            32                 11                                 4.314795
R452     26                46                            32                 11                                 5.1468529

Therefore, the R452 uses the same first gear as the turbo trans but a greater countershaft under drive due to the smaller input gear and larger mating countershaft gear teeth.
The 29 tooth input gears o.d. is 2.802" whereas the 26 tooth is 2.549"

There are only 3 gears in the R452 trans that are the same as the R151F, reverse idler, reverse 1/2 slider, and 1th speed gear.

Yes in theory, the R452 is weaker, however, the input teeth are .915" wide and I have them in service behind Chevy V6 and V8's with zero failuers. Not counting the diesel work trucks over there that must work harder than over here.

It has proved to be a very depenable trans and you still have the 4th and 5th gear that are the same as the R150 and 151's.

I have never needed any parts, so I have not looked into the non USA Hino/Dyna part numbers.
Remember that the trans is made by Aisin Seiko, not Toyota.
Since Toyota never offered the R452, they would not have the part numbers in their system. Only Hino and Dyna.

Marlin
                         
« Last Edit: Sep 24, 2004, 01:30:49 AM by Marlin »
1980 Toyota - 1997 3RZ-FE 2.7l Engine, Turbo R151F 4.31:1, Triple Turbo Marlin Crawler Billet (2.28x4.70x4.70) = 1,148:1 Crawl Ratio, Marlin Crawler Twin Stick and Short Throw Shift Kits, 30mm H/D Output Shaft, High Angle Drive Lines, 5.29:1, ARBs, High Pinion Front, 25mm HD Billet High Steer Kit, 6 Pin Locking Hub Bodies, 86+ Wide Rear End, V6 3rd member, Chromolly Axles all around, 37" IROKs with Beadlocks, York onboard air - Rollbar air tank, Premier Power Welder, Marlin Crawler 4" USA-made Leaf Springs, Bilstein Shocks, et cetera....

jr9162

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #11 on: Sep 26, 2004, 11:06:43 PM »
I think I understod all you said there Marlin. When a R452 5:15:1 gearset is installed in a R151F or R150F -  Because the R452's countershaft has 46 front teeth (bigger) and 26 input gear teeth (smaller, 2.549" OD) the gearbox is weaker than the R150F and R151F. However the .915" wide input gear teeth aren't prone to failure.

Sorry about the gaffe regarding the Toyota part numbers. I presumed Hino, and Dyna were Toyota subsidaries or affiliates.

Just wondered if new or used R452 gear sets would be cheaper to ship than a whole gearbox...

To add a further twist, will this conversion be compatable with using a AX15 Jeep/Dodge 10 spline 5/8" input shaft? I presume I'd also have to use the AX15 front bearing retainer? How strong is this retainer compared to your 'Heavy Duty Bearing Cover Plate' ? Fits R series transmission only (R150F, R151).

Or, does one use the Toyota front bearing retainer with the AX15 input shaft?

Thanks, JR

 
 
« Last Edit: Sep 26, 2004, 11:14:10 PM by jr9162 »
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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #12 on: Sep 28, 2004, 10:32:04 PM »
I once looked into having the R452 26 tooth input gear made by my Japanese gear cutter with the 10 spline Jeep input shaft but after having trouble find the transmissions thur my importer, I dropped the idea.
If I could find a good source of used cores, this still could be done.

The retainer plate that I make is for the center mainshaft bearing.
From the factory, all R series transmissions; 150, 151, 154, 452 ect., all use a stamped steel plate to retain the bearing. This plate is prone to wear that is one of the causes for the trans popping out of gear.

My plate is CNC machined from tool steel and comes complete with much stronger bolts.

Marlin
1980 Toyota - 1997 3RZ-FE 2.7l Engine, Turbo R151F 4.31:1, Triple Turbo Marlin Crawler Billet (2.28x4.70x4.70) = 1,148:1 Crawl Ratio, Marlin Crawler Twin Stick and Short Throw Shift Kits, 30mm H/D Output Shaft, High Angle Drive Lines, 5.29:1, ARBs, High Pinion Front, 25mm HD Billet High Steer Kit, 6 Pin Locking Hub Bodies, 86+ Wide Rear End, V6 3rd member, Chromolly Axles all around, 37" IROKs with Beadlocks, York onboard air - Rollbar air tank, Premier Power Welder, Marlin Crawler 4" USA-made Leaf Springs, Bilstein Shocks, et cetera....

NorCalBorn

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2009, 08:57:19 PM »
*Bumping this old thread b/c I would love to hear some more about the transmission Marlin's currently running.

Also any info and feedback on the auto's behind the diesels would be helpful.
:D

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #14 on: Apr 19, 2011, 04:13:35 PM »
I want to bump this. I am still searching, but would like to know if things have changed in the past couple years in regards to getting the r452 trans over to the US.

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #15 on: Apr 30, 2011, 12:59:29 AM »
Next time I am in the Philippines I'll look for a sorce for these. May be next summer though before I get back there.
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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #16 on: Jul 19, 2013, 10:29:47 AM »
Does anyone know the following to be true. I am interested in throwing the R452 overdrive gear in place of the 5th gear in an R150F to bring down my cruising speed on the highway/freeway. I will have it coupled with a 1UZ and 5.29's in the rear. Would I simply be able to replace this single gear, or would I need much more (the whole cluster etc...)

Also, has anyone been able to chase down a supplier/vendor for parts on these transmissions in the US?

Quote
The R150 and 151 both have the same cluster gear ratio which is 1.482 and
both have the same overdrive gear ratio of 0.565. So 1.482 x 0.565 = 0.83 =
17% overdrive.

But the R154 has a cluster ratio of 1.117 and an overdrive gear ratio of
0.674. Therefore, 1.117 x 0.674 = 0.75 = 25% overdrive.

But if I use either the R150 or 151 overdrive gears (0.565) in my R154 its
1.117 x 0.565 = 0.63 overdrive.

The R452 also has a different cluster of 1.769 but also a different
overdrive gear ratio of 0.469 so 1.769 x 0.469 also = 0.83 = 17% overdrive.
But if I use these gears in my R154 it becomes 1.117 x 0.469 = 0.52 = 48%
overdrive.

No point in using the R154 overdrive gears in a R150/151 as its 1.482 x
0.674 = 0.99 !!!!!! You don't need another top gear.

But what if you use the R452 overdrive gears (0.469) in a R150/151. This
means 1.482 x 0.469 = 0.69 = 31% overdrive. There you have it, LOL.

RobMason

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #17 on: Jan 17, 2014, 11:43:57 PM »
Does anyone know the following to be true. I am interested in throwing the R452 overdrive gear in place of the 5th gear in an R150F to bring down my cruising speed on the highway/freeway. I will have it coupled with a 1UZ and 5.29's in the rear. Would I simply be able to replace this single gear, or would I need much more (the whole cluster etc...)

Also, has anyone been able to chase down a supplier/vendor for parts on these transmissions in the US?

Don't know but I'm trying to find out the exact same thing

live4soccer7

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #18 on: Jan 18, 2014, 07:15:53 AM »
I'm about 99% certain that you can, but I just have no idea how to get a hold of one. If you have info, please do share.

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #19 on: Jan 29, 2014, 09:42:38 PM »
Don't know but I'm trying to find out the exact same thing

I'm about 99% certain that you can, but I just have no idea how to get a hold of one. If you have info, please do share.

I believe - http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/1527274-hino-dyna-r452-1st-5th-gear-tech.html , which I bookmarked the other night has the information you're looking for. Not cheap, but yes, doable.

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #20 on: Jan 30, 2014, 01:54:40 AM »
Marks Adaptors no longer do the kit with the R452 transmission because the core transmission was so difficult to get hold of
own a 1989  LN106r diesel with a 1KZ-T 3 litre turbo diesel  bolted to a imported R151F gearbox with snorkel Rancho springs & shocks & Detroit lockers F & R & 11x 32  cooper sst ultimate dual transfer cases 130 litre fuel tank   full floating disc brake rear end

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Re: Hino 1st gear
« Reply #21 on: Jan 30, 2014, 07:52:12 AM »
Marks Adaptors no longer do the kit with the R452 transmission because the core transmission was so difficult to get hold of

This is true. It seems like you can basically make your own by swapping 1st and 5th output gears and the coutershaft from the R452 into another R series. Gears are allegedly (I haven't confirmed, shipping to the US is questionable) available at a link pasted in the thread I linked. I have an R452 with Marks adapter, so would be interested in what anyone discovers if they follow up on the parts link for my own future parts needs.

 
 
 
 
 

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